Coaching Qulaifications

[Jimjac]

Can anyone tell me what different level coaches can coach.

Is there a specific skill valve and also what are MAG coaches allowed to do in WAG

 

[Jenny]

You can basically coach the moves which are covered on the qualification you have. There are a mixture of skill values at each level but obviously they get harder with the harder qualifications. You can find the list of moves on BG by looking at the coaching modules for each level where they are listed. But it is very convoluted and long winded to get to it. You can find lists of courses https://www.british-gymnastics.org/courses/search/coaching

I would love to see an open database on BG of each coaches qualification. And a link to a list of moves this enables them to coach. So you could easily check what qualifications the coaches in your gym actually have.
However once you have attended the next practical course/ module a level higher you are allowed to coach those moves also in the gym. You cannot take them round a competition until you have been assessed and passed that module though.

There is a set qualification needed to take gymnasts round a competition at each level. Level 2 minimum for any competition, LEvel 3 coach for vol level 4 and above. Level 4 coach for comp 2 and above. Then it really goes on the moves the gymnasts are doing. If your gymnast is performing a same bar release you need a level 5 coach to take them round.

It could be much much clearer though.

MAG and WAG are totally separate. There is a transfer grid. Link Removed
Looks like MAG level 1 and 2 are designated same for WAG and don't need to be redone. MAG 3 equiv of WAG 2, MAG4 same as WAG 3, MAG 5 same as WAG 4.
I think that means a level 4 MAG can coach Level 3 WAG moves. If I am reading it correctly.

 

[Jimjac]

Thanks Jenny for the links.

The transfer grid is definitely not clear but I think you have read it correctly.

It looks like a MAG 5 coach can only coach WAG 3 surely they are qualified to coach higher bar skills

 

[Triadian]

What you need to remember is that the bar for men is only single bar or parallel bar both of which have totally different shapes when doing skills on them to a woman swinging between the A bars. So although floor and vault may be much the same the other pieces are so different that it is not that easy to transcend between them.
The transfer grid is very interesting though but it could be made easier for people to understand.
I do agree though that there should be a database that parents can check to ensure their children's coach is qualified to coach them especially at the higher levels as I know of General gymnastics coaches teaching skills from level 3 artistic and above because theres no clear check list for people to check.

 

[twinklytoes9468]

I think there should be core and modules at every level.For example i have done WA 2 plus 1 WA3 module.I would like to swap to the tumbling route.This means (as i understand it) i have to go right back to L1 tumbling, and even though I will only get 1 extra skill (whip) at the end of it, I have t
to
1)pay £319
2) plough through all the common core stuff like learning skills and how to fill in an accident report,
3) get a L2 tumbling mentor
just to get access to L2 tumbling course

I am a bit disenchanted with BG at the moment.They seem to be just a money making thing

 

[Jenny]

I think that would be helpful. Then people can just do the practical modules for each discipline. And maybe one could cover anything exclusive to that discipline. I don't think it is a money making thing, more just a left over from previous coaching qualification set ups.

 

[MatteJHart]

I’ve been lightly involved with British Gymnastics coach education in the past and the conversation of the qualifications transfer matrix is always an interesting one. Each discipline has to agree on where coaches from other disciplines can enter and join them. It largely comes down to differences in apparatus and techniques required.

The idea of a database is a good one except it’s nkt as simple as just knowing which qualification a coach has. When they acquired it also affects what skills they are allowed to coach. A qualification syllabus changes over time even if the level of the qualification stays the same. This is because of changes to the code of points and just general updates and modernisation. Two coaches can take the same qualification just a couple of years apart but there might be a few skills different between what was on their course content and that therefore means they’d be qualified for slightly different syllabus of skills. I saw this several times at TeamGym level 3 technical modules when they went through a decent update.

 

[Jimjac]

Agree that the database needs more than just skill level but it would be a start.

I also can't see anything to state that a coach cannot coach a skill that is not in the module only what level coaches are required at a competition. There are skills that aren't in any of the coaching modules and there are definitely skills that appear on WAG level 4 and 5 that lower level coaches are teaching. Can anyone clarify what is actually allowed.

 

[Jenny]

Agree that the database needs more than just skill level but it would be a start.

I also can't see anything to state that a coach cannot coach a skill that is not in the module only what level coaches are required at a competition. There are skills that aren't in any of the coaching modules and there are definitely skills that appear on WAG level 4 and 5 that lower level coaches are teaching. Can anyone clarify what is actually allowed.

I'm pretty sure it says in several places that coaches can only coach the skills that they have covered on coaching modules. Lower level coaches can coach with supervision of a higher qualified coach I believe but I think often coaches just coach without thinking if they are really insured to do so. I see a lot of free cartwheels and back tucks on beam and double backs on floor being coached by level 2 and 3 coaches who really shouldn't. A clear list of skills allowed per level of coach and coaches being required to declare what level they are would be helpful to parents as they often don't really understand that their child's coach is coaching beyond their qualifications.

 

[rd7]

I'm pretty sure it says in several places that coaches can only coach the skills that they have covered on coaching modules. Lower level coaches can coach with supervision of a higher qualified coach I believe but I think often coaches just coach without thinking if they are really insured to do so. I see a lot of free cartwheels and back tucks on beam and double backs on floor being coached by level 2 and 3 coaches who really shouldn't. A clear list of skills allowed per level of coach and coaches being required to declare what level they are would be helpful to parents as they often don't really understand that their child's coach is coaching beyond their qualifications.

Jenny, free cartwheel and tuck back on beam are on the level 3 modules and a level 3 coach is fine to take these to competition as long as they have the module signed off. However double back in competition is Level 4, level 3 only covers preps, not to hard landing.

 

[Jenny]

Jenny, free cartwheel and tuck back on beam are on the level 3 modules and a level 3 coach is fine to take these to competition as long as they have the module signed off. However double back in competition is Level 4, level 3 only covers preps, not to hard landing.

Yes sorry back tuck is in level 3. But level 2's shouldn't be coaching it and I see that. As far as I am aware Free Cartwheel is not. It isn't listed on the syllabus for level 3 and it certainly wasn't when I did it years ago. These are the beam skills listed for level 3
Beam Skills:

• Leaps onto end or side of beam
• Two footed stretched jump on end or side of beam
• Forwards roll onto end of beam
• Straddle lever press to handstand
• Backwards walkover into different jumps
• Backflic to two feet, split leg backflic
• Gainer flic
• Korbut flic
• Linking backwards walkover with flic
• Backwards somersault
• Forwards somersault dismount
• Round off into stretched backwards somersault dismount
• Training on beam - beam complex
• Using beam for strength and range of movement

A level 3 can't take a free cartwheel at a competition.

Free Cartwheel is clearly listed as level 4
Beam Skills:

• Round off flic mount
• Tucked forwards somersault mount
• Free cartwheel
• Free walkover
• Forwards somersault tucked
• Sideways somersault
• Flics in a series and flic layout somersault
• Free walkover flic/forwards somersault korbut (linking forwards and backwards flight elements)
• Forwards somersault with 1/1 turn dismount
• Backwards somersault with 1/1 and 1 ½ twists dismount from round off or back flic

It is a mistake a lot of people make. It is probably the most common skill I see coaches doing that they shouldn't.

 

[Triadian]

A clear list of skills allowed per level of coach and coaches being required to declare what level they are would be helpful to parents as they often don't really understand that their child's coach is coaching beyond their qualifications.

This is very true there should also be clarification between different types of gymnastics as a level 4 general gymnastics coach can't (or shouldn't) coach the same moves as a level 4 artistic. I often see general gymnastic coaches coaching moves from level 3 and level 4 artistic and yet most parents don't understand that the general level was introduced for clubs that wanted coaches for their recreation classes quickly as it was a much easier path and more people were able to pass. But then you get these coaches that branch off on their own and coach higher moves over and above their qualification. I think the difference between general gymnastics and the other specific disciplines (WAG, MAG Acro etc) should be emphasised and made alot more clearer.

 

[rd7]

Jenny it's not a mistake, I have my Level 3 beam technical module in front of me, it has free cartwheel and free walkover in it. I had to show the assessor one of them when I got the module signed off, this was around 2014/2015. Maybe it's not included now, I'd have to check but I'm certain there are several Level 3 coaches who can coach these skills, myself included.
That said, I agree with you, there are coaches coaching above their qualifications that really shouldn't be and it should be made clearer by BG.

 

[Jenny]

Jenny it's not a mistake, I have my Level 3 beam technical module in front of me, it has free cartwheel and free walkover in it. I had to show the assessor one of them when I got the module signed off, this was around 2014/2015. Maybe it's not included now, I'd have to check but I'm certain there are several Level 3 coaches who can coach these skills, myself included.
That said, I agree with you, there are coaches coaching above their qualifications that really shouldn't be and it should be made clearer by BG.

Very odd as I did mine just before that and mine do not include it. They did make quite a few changes around that time. Maybe they included it for a short time and then took it out again. Not really helpful to mess around with the qualifications like that as no one knows where they stand.

 

[rd7]

Still included, I checked with someone that did it 2 months ago, and yes I wish it was more transparent as well.

 

[Triadian]

Very odd as I did mine just before that and mine do not include it. They did make quite a few changes around that time. Maybe they included it for a short time and then took it out again. Not really helpful to mess around with the qualifications like that as no one knows where they stand.

Did you do general gymnastics or artistic because they are very different and again this should be emphasised when coaches take courses.

 

[Jenny]

Still included, I checked with someone that did it 2 months ago, and yes I wish it was more transparent as well.

Free cartwheel on beam is not listed on the syllabus. So it is not included at the moment.

 

[Jenny]

Did you do general gymnastics or artistic because they are very different and again this should be emphasised when coaches take courses.

WAG.

 

[Jenny]

Free cartwheel on beam is not listed on the syllabus. So it is not included at the moment.

Maybe the BG website is out of date so it isn't showing correctly? That is all I can think.

 

[rd7]

Yes BG website is out of date or wrong, level 3 module also has front somersault on the beam and side somersault tucked or piked as well as the free cartwheel and free walkover, otherwise the same as above. I don't believe those skills are on level 4 any more but I could be wrong.