Parents What would you do? (teams and skipping levels)

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EmmasMommy

My daughter has found the last 2 years of gymnastics really easy, as she hasn't been learning any new skills. She has been expressing her growing boredom for a year now. We're moving, so there MIGHT be an option for her to skip a level (it would have been really easy to do so last year, but doing so this year could be a little tougher).

Reason her current gym doesn't have her in a higher level appears to be because they have a "system" there. Young girls always start at preteam (even if them are capable of team skills) and they only move up levels once a year, if they have the skills, and only up one level at a time. Even so, they ALMOST skipped her a level last summer, but then decided not to. The other moms on the team, while they love having us with them, I think are a bit confused why my daughter is placed where she is. There is one other girl who I believe also could have skipped a level last summer.

If she stays on the track she is on without skipping, she'll have another year of great competitions with high/top ranks. Except she doesn't care. She wants a challenge and believes she can eventually get those high/top ranks again after she's practiced the new skills for a while. If she moves up, however, she'll have 1 new beam skills to learn, 2 new bar skills to learn (she almost has 1 of them after trying it for one day--she is a natural on bars), and will have to move a skill she currently only does on the mat to on the floor. So that's basically 4 new skills she would have to learn in 8 weeks (over the summer). This means the most likely outcome is she won't get top/high ranks in competitions next year. She wouldn't do horrible (one she learns the skills) but instead of getting 1st-3rd place on events, I'm guessing she would score in the low to mid 8's on each event, ranking her lower. Then again, maybe I'm not giving her enough credit.

I've talked to her about this extensively and her determination cannot be deterred.

I explained that IF the coaches think she can skip a level, that means more training over summer at camp instead of play. She says okay, then she'll train more. I explained that IF she moves up, she'll be leaving her friends behind. She says she'll miss them, but that she'll make new friends. I explained she might not do as good at competition. She said she doesn't care and she'll just practice and do better next time. I don't think she's "in a rush" and just wants to learn skills and ignore form, but she clearly wants to learn new skills too.

It's pretty clear what SHE wants, but as her parents I need to decide what is best for her. Do I support her in her goals or hold her back? Again, even if I support her, she still has to gain the support from the coaches. I'm just torn. I don't know if it's selfish (because I enjoy seeing her do so well) or what. I will say that she watches all her videos from competition and even when she gets 1st place she asks what she can do different to do better next time, so for her, competition is more about improving herself and not how she measures up against others (I hope she keeps this attitude!).

I spoke to my dad (who was a coach for years). He knows her personal learning curve/ability AND he knows how much a gymnast can learn in the summer, so I figured he would know better than me (who only knows her personal learning curve and ability). He told me I'm underestimating her and underestimating what a summer in the gym can do for a girl like her. He also said that if she's able to move up and I hold her back, I risk her getting bored to the point of quitting, though I don't think she would because even though she's bored she still eats, sleeps, and breathes gymnastics. He thinks not only can she learn the skills in time, but that she could still do well at competition. Maybe I need to be careful when I talk to her that I don't seem like I don't believe in her; I just don't want her to be disappointed. She's young, so I don't think she can possibly fully understand a decision like this. However, she's made similar decisions before where her gymnastics was concerned and chose wisely.

The boredom factor is a big thing, too. She still LOVES gymnastics, but she doesn't love it like she used to because she says it's too easy. I always liked easy. Maybe I should be happy that at least she wants to be challenged. However, when she realized that there is a possibility of moving into a level that is working on new skills, her passion for gymnastics returned. So now she is trying to learn one of the new bar skills. I'm not worried about her being discouraged about learning harder skills, because no matter how many times she fails at something, she NEVER stops trying or get frustrated or upset. She just tries again and again and again. It's when she already knows how to do something and has been doing the same thing for 2 years that she gets bored. so that's not a concern.

However, I think it's GOOD to keep working on things that are easy and focus on form. That's why she does good at competition. But maybe 2 years working on the same skills is excessive if you can already do them well. I don't know. I leave it up to her coaches to know. Her current gym though moves girls in groups, once a year, only up one level at a time, where the new gym goes based on skill. This is why the skipping a level might be possible when we move. Of course, we won't know until they evaluate her.

I always thought repetition and boredom was part of the deal with gymnastics. You learn a skill, but then you have to perfect it. You can't always be learning tons of new things. But maybe there is a point where it's just excessive and holding a kid back, and maybe that point is when a child hasn't learned anything new in 2 years and is doing skills that are 2 levels ahead of the rest of her team. I'm so torn.

Sorry to write a book about it.

What would you do in this situation? Support her in her attempt, or insist/encourage her to stay on the track she's on and take another easy year with great competition scores?
 
Well look ... if you've never seen skipping levels before here's some food for thought. This little girl's mom puts up a fan web page so I don't think she'll mind. This girl was competing Bronze one year ago spring season and if you look at the videos the routines are at about L3. She competed L4 in the fall season, moved to an elite track, and competed L5, L6 & L7 in Jan, Feb & March of this year. So she competed about L3, L4, L5, L6, and has now scored out of L7 -- all in one 12 month period. Jade Doheny - Actress, Model, Gymnast - YouTube I'm not saying anything about your daughter, but I don't know that it's important to always win in compulsories towards ultimate skill achievement in optionals.
 
How old of a kid are you talking about, and what level is she at now vs. the level she is determined to skip? Is she a 6 year old Level 2 trying to skip Level 3-- sure-- is she a 11 year old level 7 trying to skip 8 (score out)? Some frame of reference would help.
 
She's 6 and in level 2 wanting to skip to 4.
She COULD have skipped to 3 EASILY last year and to 4 with some work, but she would have been happy with 3 last year.
This year, she could skip to 4 with some work. So basically, no real progress aside from improving her form over the last year. And not that I think improving form isn't progress! It DEFINITELY has been. But she could have just as easily improved form in level 3.
 
Well look ... if you've never seen skipping levels before here's some food for thought. This little girl's mom puts up a fan web page so I don't think she'll mind. This girl was competing Bronze one year ago spring season and if you look at the videos the routines are at about L3. She competed L4 in the fall season, moved to an elite track, and competed L5, L6 & L7 in Jan, Feb & March of this year. So she competed about L3, L4, L5, L6, and has now scored out of L7 -- all in one 12 month period. Jade Doheny - Actress, Model, Gymnast - YouTube I'm not saying anything about your daughter, but I don't know that it's important to always win in compulsories towards ultimate skill achievement in optionals.

Talk about fast track! I didn't realize some girls might want to score out until optionals and then focus more there. I guess that's a good point and it's not all about competition scores early on. I wouldn't be surprised if my daughter "scored out" of level 4 after her 1st competition (once she learns the skills) but if we skip this level I'm pretty sure we want her to slow down a little after that. Guess we cross that bridge when we get there, though. Thanks for showing me though that it's possible to skip and not do terrible.

Her current gym under no circumstances does scoring out and do not support elite tracks. Her new gym, however, said they have many girls skip levels over the summer, if they are willing to put the work in. That's why it's now a possibility for my daughter. We just don't want to make a rash decision.
 
How old of a kid are you talking about, and what level is she at now vs. the level she is determined to skip? Is she a 6 year old Level 2 trying to skip Level 3-- sure-- is she a 11 year old level 7 trying to skip 8 (score out)? Some frame of reference would help.

I agree...I need to know more about age/level/years doing gymnastics to respond...
 
IMO it's very possible and very doable to skip from level 2 (???) to Level 4 and not have any problems. Honestly, I have never even heard of Level 2 competitions until this board. Many gyms begin competing at Level 4 or even Level 5.

Next year L5 will be called L4- so really is it "new" level 4 or "old" level 4 you are talking about? I am assuming you are talking about "new" L4 (old 5- which in fact would be like skipping 2 levels).

Nonetheless, it's doable, many kids do it, begin at L4 or L5 especially if she has a while to prepare. She HAS to do at least one meet at L4 and get a 31 next season (after August). It is not that hard, and many 7 year olds begin at L5 all the time (which will now be L4- lol) , and do very well.
 
I agree...I need to know more about age/level/years doing gymnastics to respond...

She started gymnastics when she was 4 and could already do all the level 2 skills. They put her on the preteam. By the time she was 5 she was doing back walkovers (right and left leg), handstand forward roll, back hand springs (on tramp, now on mat), front hand springs (on tramp), shoot throughs on the bar, cartwheels and hand stands on beam, front flip (on tramp), back layout (on tramp). At 5 they put her into level 2. She's 6 now, and has added to her skills a straddle press handstand and almost has her front hip circle on bars. She would now be going into level 3, or level 4 if she skips. The level 4 skills she is missing is: moving back handspring to the floor (and joining it to her round off), the dismount on beam, and a front hip circle and mill circle on bars. HTH.
 
IMO it's very possible and very doable to skip from level 2 (???) to Level 4 and not have any problems. Honestly, I have never even heard of Level 2 competitions until this board. Many gyms begin competing at Level 4 or even Level 5. Next year L5 will be called L4- so really is it "new" level 4 or "old" level 4 you are talking about? I am assuming you are talking about "new" L4 (old 5- which in fact would be like skipping 2 levels). Nonetheless, it's doable, many kids do it, begin at L4 or L5 especially if she has a while to prepare. She HAS to do at least one meet at L4 and get a 31 next season (after August). It is not that hard, and many 7 year olds begin at L5 all the time , and do very well.

No, it would be the old level 4, so I realize to her it it will feel like she didn't skip, but I explained it to her and she says she doesn't care what level it's called, she just wants to learn something new. Thanks for the encouragement and helping me realize her goals aren't over the top!
 
If she's only 6, then I would probably keep her in Level 3 for a year while she learns the Level 4 skills for next year. Does your gym uptrain, as in train for Level 4 while competing Level 3? I have seen little 6 year olds compete Level 4 at meets and not have all of their skills (front hip circle, back handspring, beam dismount), and I always think it's strange their coaches sent them out there without all the necessary skills for the routines.

She may be able to get the big skills she needs over the summer, but will she be able to have them competition ready and learn all the new routines? I'd talk to her coach and see if it's even an option to move to Level 4, because it might not even be something they will consider.

Sorry - I'm not much help! It could really go either way depending on your daughter's ability and what the coaches are willing to do with her.
 
Her current gym does SOME uptraining, but mostly they just do it over the summer. Which basically means they will teach her nothing this year, this summer, or next summer, but the following summer they will teach her for level 4 (present level 4). I guess that that means is, either way she will be learning these skills over the summer, just wlil it be while she is 6 r while she is 7. The new gym does do uptraining year round. Also, the new gym said if she is ready for level 4 but not ready to COMPETE level 4, she can skip the first 2 competitions of the season and compete once she is caught up (versus keeping her back an entire year over being a couple months behind). We wouldn't send her to competition anyway if she doesn't have a skill (and to be honest, there are a lot of girls in my daughter's level TWO that are competing without all the level 2 skills...) I already spoke to the new gym and they will consider moving her to level 4. We're doing an eval so they can decide if they think she can get the necessary skills in time. Her current coaches wouldn't move her up even if she knew every level 4 5 and 6 skill and could do them all perfectly, because they do.no.ever. let girls skip levels AND *every* level must be completed for a full year before moving up. They *almost* made an exception and let my daughter and one other girl skip last year. The other moms in the gym think it's so their scores would bring up the team score, but I am certain they must have had other reasons, such as my daughter's mental/emotional maturity at the time.

It's March, and they started working on leg cuts and back walkovers at team practice (for level 3--which my daughter can already do), but a lot of the girls are still working on mastering level 2 skills (example: landing on their feet for bars dismount, doing a pull over without kicking over, not falling on their back hip circle, etc) so they spend most of their time working on those skills. So, they do do SOME up training, but mostly it is during the summer. I know because my daughter trained for 2 going to 3 last summer (even though they didn't move her) and they were putting girls into 3 that couldn't even do a pull over on the bars (I still can't figure that one one). Everything they were teaching for level 3 last summer the girls didn't already know (but Emma did) so I am assuming they must not have done much uptraining in level 2, and I haven't seen them do much in level 2 this year either.

I do think learning level 4 skills over the summer at at 7 would be easier than at age 6, though. I'm sure she's capable. I'm more just having a hard time of letting go of her "standing out". I don't think she will stand out in level 4, but maybe I'm underestimating her.
 
I wouldn't worry about her "standing out" at any level, because that can change depending on which teams are at the meets, how they arrange the age groups, etc.... I'd choose whatever gym is better all around, which sounds like gym #2 from what you describe.
 
Thanks for the feedback. We have to switch gyms eventually anyway because we're moving, luckily it will be a nice gym in the new area. But they said the possibility of going to level 4, which is her goal, based on the eval, and I just wasn't sure. I feel like it probably is best for her, but I'm torn because for selfish reasons I want to hold her back. I don't want her to go to her first meet in level 4 (whether it's the team's first meet or third) and not do great, but I'm pretty sure by the end of summer she'd be able to compete level 4 with 8's on everything. Would be her worst scores ever, but she said she can always get better by practicing, so maybe by the end of the year level 4 she would be fully caught up.
 
She'd probably be fine in L4 for a team that doesn't care if all their kids don't get 36+'s at meets. She is missing the two big bar skills for L4 (new L3) and the hardest beam and floor skills, but probably so are a lot of girls who just finished competing L3 (although the mill circle is a L3 bar move :/...don't get me started on the mill circle though ;)).

I'm mostly impressed that she has a press handstand :), and think she'd probably catch on quickly just because of this...my DD is a pretty good press handstander now, and she didn't get hers until she was ~8, this girl is only 6. What kinds of scores do the L4's at your gym get at meets - are they a powerhouse team all getting 9's on everything, or is there a mix of scores and varying strengths/weaknesses amoung the gymnasts? I usually feel that if kid is capable of a 34AA in the next level, they should move to it just so they keep getting challenged and are advancing, but every gym has a different level of score expectations - some see 34's good scores, while some find them competely unacceptable...
 
She'd probably be fine in L4 for a team that doesn't care if all their kids don't get 36+'s at meets. She is missing the two big bar skills for L4 (new L3) and the hardest beam and floor skills, but probably so are a lot of girls who just finished competing L3 (although the mill circle is a L3 bar move :/...don't get me started on the mill circle though ;)).

I'm mostly impressed that she has a press handstand :), and think she'd probably catch on quickly just because of this...my DD is a pretty good press handstander now, and she didn't get hers until she was ~8, this girl is only 6. What kinds of scores do the L4's at your gym get at meets - are they a powerhouse team all getting 9's on everything, or is there a mix of scores and varying strengths/weaknesses amoung the gymnasts? I usually feel that if kid is capable of a 34AA in the next level, they should move to it just so they keep getting challenged and are advancing, but every gym has a different level of score expectations - some see 34's good scores, while some find them competely unacceptable...

I would worry more about those 2 bar skills if it wasn't her easiest event. Everything she has been shown on bars by a coach she has learned the first day. Granted, those skills were easier, but she even learned her shoot through her first time on bars (she did a simple drill about 10 times, then tried it on bars and got it her first try). I think she'll learn them. I'm more concerned about the beam dismount. Beam is scary for her, even though it's her strongest event, ranking wise. The level 4 at our current gym does really well. 1st place a lot, almost always in the top 3. The gym she is moving too does really well, too, but their strengths I think are in the level 7-10s and they are just as good with their levels 5 and 6.

Re: Mill Circle. Yes, a level 3 skill. Oddly, they don't uptrain this skill during level two OR over the summer. They train it AFTER level 3 starts. I think she'll have a harder time with the mill circle than the front hip circle because she's afraid of the mill circle. Once she gets past that, she should be okay. She's not afraid of the front hip circle and tried it for the first time on tuesday and almost got it by herself after a few tries and tips (almost no spot at all). BUT then she started piking too early, so she'll have to step back a bit and go back to working on the start of her hip circle. I am sure she'll get it after a few hours in the gym working at it, though. She learned her back handspring in 3 days (working on it 15 minutes a day) and has been working on it in the gym on and off for 15-30 minutes a week. She's doing it on a mat now and her form is decent. I'd be curious to see how soon she could get it on the floor with good for once working on it 30 minutes 3-4 times a week.

I admit, to me, 34 sounds bad... which is why I hesitate to let her move up. She'll get over 36 easy at level 3. At level 4, I could see getting closer to 32, but I guess I am basing that entirely on guessing how fast she can improve her form once learning the skills, which I have always underestimated in the past. I'm not worried about whether she can learn the skills themselves, just whether she can be great at them by the fall.
 
Sounds like your AAU 3 to USAG new 3 will not be a whole level skip. It will be more like a half skip.
Our girls are doing AAU 3 state at the end of April and will compete new L3 USAG in Sept. But it is not that huge a jump. They have done little uptraining.
 
Fwiw, this is the time to experience "not winning." Who knows, maybe your dd will get the skills solidly before meets start and be fine and excel through it. But I've found it's a bit easier to learn to both win and lose graciously if the child experiences both early on. Sometimes kids who only experience winning at the lowest levels (especially if it comes with minimal effort!) have a much harder time as the skill set rapidly increases, things get harder, and winning becomes less frequent...you sometimes start to see those "well I'm not winning, so I must not be any good" thoughts appearing. You can read a lot around this board too about the kids who struggled to place high through the early levels, but loved the sport and just the learning of new skills--and those are the kids who are in the sport for the long haul. For them, it's not about the bling, it's about the internal motivation and personal successes of learning new things and overcoming fears and roadblocks along the way.

If your daughter has the maturity already to realize that there's more to it than first place, and she's expressing to you what she wants to get out of this, then I would let her guide that decision.

Just a last thought...it's possible to drop back if it becomes too much, but more difficult (and in some cases, not feasible) to decide 1/2 way through the season to try to "skip a level" then, as she would have been training different skills.
 
Oh, are they removing skills from the current level 4 to make the new level 3?

I thought basically they were combining 1 and 2 to make 1. Current 3 would be new 2. Current 4 would be new 3. So on. Then they were adding in a new level 6. 7-10 would be the same.

I admit I don't know a WHOLE lot about it though. I did realize that for her moving to "level 4" really just means moving to the new level 3, but in this post I used the current level names because it's more about skills and not about what "level" she is on numerically.
 
Fwiw, this is the time to experience "not winning." Who knows, maybe your dd will get the skills solidly before meets start and be fine and excel through it. But I've found it's a bit easier to learn to both win and lose graciously if the child experiences both early on. Sometimes kids who only experience winning at the lowest levels (especially if it comes with minimal effort!) have a much harder time as the skill set rapidly increases, things get harder, and winning becomes less frequent...you sometimes start to see those "well I'm not winning, so I must not be any good" thoughts appearing. You can read a lot around this board too about the kids who struggled to place high through the early levels, but loved the sport and just the learning of new skills--and those are the kids who are in the sport for the long haul. For them, it's not about the bling, it's about the internal motivation and personal successes of learning new things and overcoming fears and roadblocks along the way.

If your daughter has the maturity already to realize that there's more to it than first place, and she's expressing to you what she wants to get out of this, then I would let her guide that decision.

Just a last thought...it's possible to drop back if it becomes too much, but more difficult (and in some cases, not feasible) to decide 1/2 way through the season to try to "skip a level" then, as she would have been training different skills.

This helps a lot. Yeah, the reality is, she has a REALLY good attitude about gymnastics and competition. I probably worry when I shouldn't. I wish they had just moved her last summer, but we really loved the gym and we trusted their decisions. I don't think their decision was wrong, by the way, I just think as far as LAST summer was concerned, there was probably TWO right choices there, and different gyms would have chosen differently without one gym being more "right" than the other.

That said, if she's going to skip a level early on, I feel like since it didn't happen last summer, now is possibly another good chance (though not AS good) to do so. Ultimately, we're happy letting the new coaches decide (besides, it's their decision either way lol), and I'm certainly curious what they will suggest. You make a great point that she can always drop back if it becomes too much and that that IS easier than trying to move up mid-year.
 

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