WAG Discussion of abuse in USAG - Nassar

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Dunno---thank you for responding. I appreciate your perspective. As a personal coach, if one of your athletes was seen alone for back pain in the hotel room of a doctor, would that have raised a red flag for you? Or would you have considered it as a norm?
 
so much i could say. no matter what i say i look like the bad guy. as i stated from day one...MSU could have told someone they had a problem with the abuser. they knew as far back as 2000 ...."

Yes, MSU could have and should have told the police and USAG but most of us do not have a continuing relationship with MSU and most of us do have an ongoing relationship with USAG.

and how do i respond when someone posts "Multiple girls were raped at the central USAG training facility over many years". just how do you respond when that is false...and if i do i'm accused of defending the indefensible. one would be too many in my book. but "several"? absolutely false.

If you use the word raped or abused or molested it's still horrible with repercussions that will last for the rest of their lives.



who would have known you couldn't trust a Doctor who's been around ALL of us for "several" years. and then abuse them under the guise of a medical procedure.


Who would have known?

Anyone who has been to a doctor with any article of clothing off in the past 20 years, especially children.

Anyone who has taught school in the past 20 years. Even in the the 90's we were told explicitly never, ever to be alone with a child to protect the teacher and the child.

Who would have known? anyone who wants to protect themselves while working with children in the past 25 years.



it's a mess.

We agree on that point.


Dunno, I respect you and admire you. You have freely given your time and expertise to countless families on CB. I agree with many of your opinions.

Parents want you to acknowledge the role USAG and the Karoli's played in allowing this to happen. They didn't know but they did not put safeguards in effect to prevent it, long after most child based services had implemented policies and procedures designed to prevent abuse. He might have abused less children, he might have abused other children but if safe guards and a more empowering, less fear based environment were in effect, he would not have have abused as many athletes at that location during those years
 
and how do i respond when someone posts "Multiple girls were raped at the central USAG training facility over many years". just how do you respond when that is false...and if i do i'm accused of defending the indefensible. one would be too many in my book. but "several"? absolutely false.

it's a mess.

Well here is the Webster's Dictionary definition of "several":

**Definition of several

2 a : more than one
  • several pleas
b : more than two but fewer than many
  • moved several inches
So with just Aly, Makayla, Mattie Larson, Jamie Dantshcher, that's the dictionary definition of "several", not to mention the hundreds at MSU/Gedderts....and yes, putting his ungloved finger in these girls IS rape, period..
 
so much i could say. no matter what i say i look like the bad guy. as i stated from day one...MSU could have told someone they had a problem with the abuser. they knew as far back as 2000 that there was a problem. they KNEW he was working with underage gymnasts at USAG. never crossed their minds (?) that the very accusation made by college girls might be occurring over on the USAG side when they KNEW there was this relationship between MSU and USAG?

and how do i respond when someone posts "Multiple girls were raped at the central USAG training facility over many years". just how do you respond when that is false...and if i do i'm accused of defending the indefensible. one would be too many in my book. but "several"? absolutely false.

again, NOBODY KNEW what the POS was doing. did our culture contribute by providing him access? probably. but as ALL have said that are involved in this entire mess, including the victims, who would have known you couldn't trust a Doctor who's been around ALL of us for "several" years. and then abuse them under the guise of a medical procedure.

it's a mess.

I can see why you feel that no matter what you say, you're the bad guy. The reason is that, in this case, USAG has screwed up royally. They are indefensible, and you are still defending them. The goal now should not be protecting USAG's reputation. The response I think most people are looking for is "yes, we have done badly, we will be making many changes in the future to prevent this happening again". Could MSU have done more? Absolutely, and if they had a representative on this board, I'm sure everyone would be all over them. But the fact that USAG was relying on others to be told about potential abusers, rather than maintaining their own proactive policies, is worrying.

I very much appreciate that you acknowledged the USAG culture contributed to the abuse. Complacency problems aren't unique to USAG; it's a common theme across almost all abuse situations. The problem is that since children and the general public might not recognise abuse, there needed to be stronger safeguards from those in charge to prevent those environments being created, and having those who would recognise abuse readily available to evaluate and monitor the situation. Hindsight it 20/20, of course, but that should have been done beforehand, and there are no excuses there, which is another reason USAG can't be defended.

Hundreds of underage girls were sexually assaulted in USAG spaces over the course of twenty years. Whether or not you want to get into the semantics of "raped" vs. "molested", the truth is that the scale and extent of the abuse is shocking (to which you have naturally agreed), and to argue that they weren't raped doesn't acknowledge the true heart of the matter. It makes it sound like you're defending the abuser, even if you don't mean to.

I don't disbelieve you when you said nobody knew. The issue is that they should have known. That's what people are really criticising USAG for.

I would add that people are concerned because, as the only representative of USAG on the board, your attitude represents the attitude of the entire federation. The defence of USAG before the acknowledgement of serious, systemic errors indicates that the organisation will be resistant to desperately needed change.
 
Hindsight is a wonderful thing and you can’t change what has already happened but you can change the way things are done in the future and what is and isn’t acceptable.
Whilst what has happened is horrible and deeply troubling we will never truly know who actually knew and covered things up or turned a blind eye or who thought it was acceptable because they bowed down to him as he was a very well respected doctor ( I have for my work done many safeguarding courses and as a part have looked at serious case reviews which happen here in the UK when abuse has been missed to see what lessons can be learned and time and time again it says the perpetrator was a very well respected person)
The real focus needs to be on what is being done to change things and I would be even more alarmed with what is known now if doctors are still allowed to treat gymnasts alone.
 
so much i could say. no matter what i say i look like the bad guy. as i stated from day one...MSU could have told someone they had a problem with the abuser. they knew as far back as 2000 that there was a problem. they KNEW he was working with underage gymnasts at USAG. never crossed their minds (?) that the very accusation made by college girls might be occurring over on the USAG side when they KNEW there was this relationship between MSU and USAG?

Well, to be fair to MSU, when USAG figured out they had an abuser on their hands, they didn't notify MSU, either... even though USAG was well aware of the fact that he was working with underage gymnasts at his clinic. The lack of communication between MSU and USAG is just astounding to me, especially since MSU was paying for his volunteer work at USAG.


and how do i respond when someone posts "Multiple girls were raped at the central USAG training facility over many years". just how do you respond when that is false...and if i do i'm accused of defending the indefensible. one would be too many in my book. but "several"? absolutely false.

Wait, are you denying that girls were raped at the training center?
 
I mean central as far as part of the country. Someone suggested moving it to California which makes no sense. The Karolyis hosted a rec gymnastics camp as well. Most gym camps, and camps in general are in wooded, rural areas.

Sounds like you've not been to the ranch nor have any idea where it is located. The ranch is about a 20 minute drive on a dirt road from its entrance to the gym facilities. Being central as part of the country has no relevance to the ranch being easily accessible.
 
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Sounds like you've not been to the ranch nor have any idea where it is located. The ranch is about a 20 minute drive on a dirt road from its entrance to the gym facilities. Being central as part of the country has no relevance to the ranch being easily accessible.

I know exactly where it is; I misunderstood what that poster meant by "central." Anyway I don't think the ranch location had to do with the molestations. Or the lack of parental access. Parents were sometimes IN THE ROOM while Nassar was assaulting children.

If I remember correctly Macready's camp is quite isolated as well and no one has been molested there.
 
I know exactly where it is; I misunderstood what that poster meant by "central." Anyway I don't think the ranch location had to do with the molestations. Or the lack of parental access. Parents were sometimes IN THE ROOM while Nassar was assaulting children.

If I remember correctly Macready's camp is quite isolated as well and no one has been molested there.

You miss the point. The point is simply the USAG needs to change the way they do everything with respect to children's safety. There is no defense of the USAG that I will agree is appropriate. It is simply acknowledge the wrong and change. The ranch is a great place to start.
 
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I know exactly where it is; I misunderstood what that poster meant by "central." Anyway I don't think the ranch location had to do with the molestations. Or the lack of parental access. Parents were sometimes IN THE ROOM while Nassar was assaulting children.

If I remember correctly Macready's camp is quite isolated as well and no one has been molested there.


Yes..it is isolated. With very strict policies and procedures that are followed. This is what USAG has been missing....
 
Sounds like you've not been to the ranch nor have any idea where it is located. The ranch is about a 20 minute drive on a dirt road from its entrance to the gym facilities. Being central as part of the country has no relevance to the ranch being easily accessible.


My problem with the Ranch, outside of these allegations, is how far out it is and how difficult to get to it is in the vent of a catastrophic injury. I've literally had to get out of my car, remove debris from the road, and continue on down.
 
My problem with the Ranch, outside of these allegations, is how far out it is and how difficult to get to it is in the vent of a catastrophic injury. I've literally had to get out of my car, remove debris from the road, and continue on down.

I agree! I think it's crazy that it is so difficult to get in and out of and there are no emergency services nearby!!!
 
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This is part of usag’s legal response to the Denhollander case — they want it dismissed. If it wasn’t clear already, they really don’t take any responsibility.

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OH my! That is horrible! If USAG had no duty to warn MSU then they can't say MSU should have warned USAG. Thanks for sharing this Seeker. I can't "like " it .
 
Why can they not just acknowledge that they made mistakes that gave Nasser the opportunity to abuse and then outline new policies and procedures that would prevent this from happening again? Just acknowledging that fact and owning that responsibility would go a long way toward healing and rebuilding the community.

I think we as parents have more power than we think. We can refuse to send our girls to gyms and camps that place their medal potential above their safety. At the end of the day, it always comes down to money and if we don’t fund those gyms and camps with our tuition money, it will either force change or force them out. I’m not sure what affect it would have on the national team and organization as a whole, but it could bring needed change to at least the ground level and the building blocks of that program.
 
Why can they not just acknowledge that they made mistakes that gave Nasser the opportunity to abuse and then outline new policies and procedures that would prevent this from happening again? Just acknowledging that fact and owning that responsibility would go a long way toward healing and rebuilding the community.

I think we as parents have more power than we think. We can refuse to send our girls to gyms and camps that place their medal potential above their safety. At the end of the day, it always comes down to money and if we don’t fund those gyms and camps with our tuition money, it will either force change or force them out. I’m not sure what affect it would have on the national team and organization as a whole, but it could bring needed change to at least the ground level and the building blocks of that program.

I like this so much but sadly I believe there are parents out there that put winning over the safety and encouraging positive treatment of their own children.
 

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