WAG Some news on Geddert himself - suspended

[Midwestmommy]

Different states have different requirements for non competes to be valid. Some are binding and others aren’t worth the paper they are written on. Courts here would carefully scrutinize whether they are valid and meet the legal requirements. However many potential employers ask whether there is one in effect, and it may impact employability in that way even if the previous employer’s contract and consideration ultimately make the noncompete invalid. I would never sign one without having an attorney review it.

 

[sce]

It is my understanding that some states have different laws. In CA a non compete can only apply to owners . Anyone know if this is factual.

A quick Google search shows that non-competes are not allowed at all in California.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

There were some scary falls in that video too. My other "yikes" moment (on top of the hours. the girls does) was that little girl traveled with her team and coaches to a meet and Florida, without har parents. At level 4. Why? Why were her parents not there with her? My 16tyo is traveling to meets and we are excited to go with him, support him and just have fun together. Isn't that part of the point of a travel meet. Wait, why a travel meet at level 4 and 9yoa t all?!?

That gym seems to have a deeply ingrained culture that is ripe for kids to be abused, the parents are not included in the process.

Letting her travel alone at 9 at age 4 was the biggest red flag for me. After everything that has come out and how those type of environments produce opportunities for abuse, why on earth would you allow that? I believe the Dad in the article is a former NFL player, so perhaps he is turning a blind eye hoping to relive some glory through his daughter one day?

And wouldn’t 24 hours of training for a 9 year old at level 4 be considered some type of abuse? No wonder their bodies are broken so early and Geddert only had one that ever made it to the Olympics. Sheesh that just seems to scream injuries due to overuse. I may be wrong but I don’t see how a growing 9 year olds body, or mentality for that matter, could possibly hold up under that amount of hours.

 

[John]

I just saw this article.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/former-olympic-gymnastics-coach-facing-criminal-investigation/

 

[LindyHopper]

I just saw this article.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/former-olympic-gymnastics-coach-facing-criminal-investigation/

Thanks for posting.

 

[RGmomLV]

Yeah the ‘I have a hard time believing’ comment made my jaw drop. What do the girls and women who spoke out against Geddert possibly have to gain by lying?

It is like the other thread talking about Liukin’s resignation. Some parents are keep says their kids and they all love Liukin. It does not matter how he treats you and your daughters it is about how he mistreated other people. Some people just don’t get it.

 

[SeaActually]

One of the things I have been most surprised with on the Crazy Mom FB Page is how common it is for level 3-4 gymnasts to be training 20+ hours.

or so they say...

 

[Mish]

One of the things I have been most surprised with on the Crazy Mom FB Page is how common it is for level 3-4 gymnasts to be training 20+ hours.

^^^^^ Me too, @amiandjim Then when you read further (for some), it is really 12-15 hours, plus a weekly private, plus open gym, etc.


(Sorry, couldn't get the quote to work properly)

 

[Aussie_coach]

Still think 15 hours a week is more than is needed at level 3.

 

[my4buffaloes]

yeah that Crazy Gym Moms group is aptly named for sure. Starting with who the heck joins a serious gymnastics group because you signed your kid up for a parent/tot class?

 

[profmom]

yeah that Crazy Gym Moms group is aptly named for sure. Starting with who the heck joins a serious gymnastics group because you signed your kid up for a parent/tot class?

Aggggghhhh!

 

[SMH]

Aggggghhhh!

My favorite posts are when someone’s 4 yr old is having a ‘mental block’ on a skill

 

[bogwoppit]

Let’s get back on topic, ugly though that topic is. Talking smack about another gym forum is not the best idea when posts are public.

 

[RTT2]

My favorite posts are when someone’s 4 yr old is having a ‘mental block’ on a skill

Oh my. What are they blocked on? Cartwheels?

 

[profmom]

The threat to investigate and prosecute Geddert highlights again the question of how much of an outlier he is. Until I looked at the story, I assumed the idea was to determine whether he was negligent or worse specifically with regard to his connection to Nassar, but I see that it's actually broader. This raises three important questions for me.

1. Where is the boundary right now between tough coaching that pushes athletes forward to achieve their full potential and abusive coaching, in terms of industry standards?

2. Where should that boundary lie?

3. If we, the US gymnastics community, whatever that is, determine that the boundary should move, is the criminal justice system an appropriate or fair way to accomplish the movement?

 

[M2Abi]

The threat to investigate and prosecute Geddert highlights again the question of how much of an outlier he is. Until I looked at the story, I assumed the idea was to determine whether he was negligent or worse specifically with regard to his connection to Nassar, but I see that it's actually broader. This raises three important questions for me.

1. Where is the boundary right now between tough coaching that pushes athletes forward to achieve their full potential and abusive coaching, in terms of industry standards?

2. Where should that boundary lie?

3. If we, the US gymnastics community, whatever that is, determine that the boundary should move, is the criminal justice system an appropriate or fair way to accomplish the movement?

The criminal justice system is appropriate if there is physical or sexual abuse involved.

Parents need to be the ones to say no to emotional and verbal abuse.

 

[raenndrops]

The threat to investigate and prosecute Geddert highlights again the question of how much of an outlier he is. Until I looked at the story, I assumed the idea was to determine whether he was negligent or worse specifically with regard to his connection to Nassar, but I see that it's actually broader. This raises three important questions for me.

1. Where is the boundary right now between tough coaching that pushes athletes forward to achieve their full potential and abusive coaching, in terms of industry standards?

2. Where should that boundary lie?

3. If we, the US gymnastics community, whatever that is, determine that the boundary should move, is the criminal justice system an appropriate or fair way to accomplish the movement?

1. Definitely if it fits the definition of abuse or assault / battery... then it DEFINITELY crosses the line!

2. Not sure... but way before criminal activity.

3. No, but if crime is happening, it should be prosecuted / the criminal justice system should be involved.

 

[LindyHopper]

is the criminal justice system an appropriate or fair way to accomplish the movement?

Going to limit this to Geddert, and limit even more to exclude anything with Nassar.

I may be wrong, but I would think the only thing the criminal justice system could look into would be the physical abuse when he was an aggressor (dropping from spotting belt, pushing into bars, pushing off beam, hitting with mats, throwing objects at gymnasts [someone said something about being kicked in the stomach then dragged, but I'm not sure if that was Geddert or another coach]). Those could be seen as assault. I think that's where the investigation could be going with Geddert. (Unless it is aiding and abetting Nassar)

I don't think the system could do anything about making them train on injuries, or the emotional and mental abuse. But again, I could be totally wrong.

 

[profmom]

But what is abuse? I think we can all agree that dropping some kid in a spotting belt on the bars for not making a correction is way over the line. But what about the following scenarios?

• Kid does back handsprings with hands turned out. Coach corrects. Kid repeats. Coach corrects. Kid repeats. Coach assigns 20 rope climbs and 200 pushups.
  
• Kid won't go for beam acro that she's been competing all season. Coach tells kid she's not allowed to work on anything else. Kid still won't go. Coach leaves kid on beam for the next three hours, assigning 20 pushups for every balk on the high beam.
  
• Coach explains drill. Kid doesn't hear because not listening and does it totally wrong. Coach sends kid down to work with lower level group for the rest of practice after commenting sarcastically that the kid clearly needs more supervision.
  
• Kid complains of "hot hands." Coach insists on full pbar workout with hanging because there's a meet coming up.
• Kid falls off of beam/horse on a stupid skill that's been in the kid's routine for four years. Coach throws a shoe at kid. Or, if you don't like that idea, what about a foam block?
• Several kids fall on BWO on beam/mushroom circles at the meet. Coach sets assignment of 100 stuck BWO/100 mushroom circles for the group at the next practice after the meet.

We might characterize at least some of these scenarios as abusive, but I don't think it's always that easy to determine what constitutes a crime. I'm not sure any of the above scenarios would provoke interest in most police or prosecutors, though in light of the furor, I could imagine someone getting creative and bringing charges. And I am just going to guess that we couldn't even get unanimity on all of the scenarios above. (Note that I'm not tipping my own hand here.)

If some practices that do occur, are known to occur, and lie within industry norms could possibly cross the line, is it fair to hold people criminally accountable? What would make it fair to enforce criminal standards against behavior that is within, even just barely within, industry norms? It just seems to me that the criminal code is a blunt and inefficient instrument here. It might be a small part of the solution, but I don't think it can be the go to.

 

[LindyHopper]

But what is abuse? I think we can all agree that dropping some kid in a spotting belt on the bars for not making a correction is way over the line. But what about the following scenarios?

• Kid does back handsprings with hands turned out. Coach corrects. Kid repeats. Coach corrects. Kid repeats. Coach assigns 20 rope climbs and 200 pushups.
  
• Kid won't go for beam acro that she's been competing all season. Coach tells kid she's not allowed to work on anything else. Kid still won't go. Coach leaves kid on beam for the next three hours, assigning 20 pushups for every balk on the high beam.
  
• Coach explains drill. Kid doesn't hear because not listening and does it totally wrong. Coach sends kid down to work with lower level group for the rest of practice after commenting sarcastically that the kid clearly needs more supervision.
  
• Kid complains of "hot hands." Coach insists on full pbar workout with hanging because there's a meet coming up.
• Kid falls off of beam/horse on a stupid skill that's been in the kid's routine for four years. Coach throws a shoe at kid. Or, if you don't like that idea, what about a foam block?
• Several kids fall on BWO on beam/mushroom circles at the meet. Coach sets assignment of 100 stuck BWO/100 mushroom circles for the group at the next practice after the meet.

We might characterize at least some of these scenarios as abusive, but I don't think it's always that easy to determine what constitutes a crime. I'm not sure any of the above scenarios would provoke interest in most police or prosecutors, though in light of the furor, I could imagine someone getting creative and bringing charges. And I am just going to guess that we couldn't even get unanimity on all of the scenarios above. (Note that I'm not tipping my own hand here.)

If some practices that do occur, are known to occur, and lie within industry norms could possibly cross the line, is it fair to hold people criminally accountable? What would make it fair to enforce criminal standards against behavior that is within, even just barely within, industry norms? It just seems to me that the criminal code is a blunt and inefficient instrument here. It might be a small part of the solution, but I don't think it can be the go to.

I agree. I think most, if not all, of the above would not be considered a crime (only exception might be the shoe, but not the foam block) and law enforcement would be unwilling to get involved . But all of them are somewhat abusive (moreso if done regularly) in my mind. It is up to the governing body (USAG, if it is still around) to hold coaches to a higher standard than simply what the law allows and consider these behaviors abusive and to fully investigate complaints, as well as determine sanctions, suspensions, and expulsions when necessary. I think that what is not acceptable and is seen as abusive needs to be part of an organization's code of conduct (But all of this is easier said than done.)

It is up to the parents, coaches, owners, and in some cases gymnasts themselves at the club level to report abusive, yet not quite criminal, behavior to their State, Region, and national governing boards. And for those governing boards to take swift and appropriate action.

My only concern here would be people with an ax to grind who may cry wolf.

How to implement it all though... sigh