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Should girls ranging from about 60-120 pounds be using different numbers of springs in the springboard on vault? The vault is a front handspring, if it matters.
Do you find it makes a big difference? My 10 year old is vaulting on the same settings as the 16,17,18 years old for tsuks. I think partly to economize time because we’re short staffed on coaches, but she complains frequently about the springs lolA 60 pound athlete and a 120 pound athlete would have different spring settings if I was coaching vault.
Do you find it makes a big difference? My 10 year old is vaulting on the same settings as the 16,17,18 years old for tsuks. I think partly to economize time because we’re short staffed on coaches, but she complains frequently about the springs lol
We All vault on 7 springs (for optionals) - I know when they get new spring boards and the springs are new, everyone is like “my ankles are about to break”. At our last location, the coach changed the settings per person but it ate up into his time and the girls, plus led to a ton of arguments between the girls if someone put a hurdle line wrong. Now everyone has the same hurdle line, vaults at 125 and 7 springs. While my kid feels it’s a little unfair to her (lol), it took her about a month to adapt to and now she vaults comfortably and the girls can get in a ton of reps without arguing over who forgot to move the spring board and the hurdle lineThe newer the springs the bigger the difference it makes... I would say it's like pulling back a bow in archery. If you can make them move... more is typically better. If you can't make them move it's like hitting concrete.
That's not to say we don't do things to minimize settings and maximize time at our gym. We only vault on odd numbers... 105 cm... 115 cm... 125 cm. While I change the springs if needed... the athletes can change the boards... when they are changing... the springs stay and the boards move. With lower level groups we don't typically have more than 2 different spring settings in any one group. We have athletes that us 4... 5... 6... and 7 springs. When they go to meets they may have a different number of springs based on how new or old the springs are as well as the brand of board.
Vault is definitely something that is tough to get proper reps if you have only one runway... a medium to large team... and lots of settings.
@Geoffrey Taucer Do you have any sort of a physics break down on the difference that number of springs can make? Seems like there are lots of variables in this one.
I think changing springs is pretty unusual. More often I've seen coaches using two different springboard, which I assume are using different springs.Is it bad that my daughter has been in this sport a long time and I didn't even know that the number of springs in a springboard was variable or that changing them was a thing?? lol
I do know that they have 2 vaults set at different heights, but never knew that the springboard could change. I'm guessing they don't change them every practice for her group? Her teammates are all fairly similar age/size now so maybe that's why.
I think changing springs is pretty unusual. More often I've seen coaches using two different springboard, which I assume are using different springs.
Yes. It seems like a total PITA.Many coaches have trouble changing the springs... it takes a bit of strength.
Also... FIG rules don't allow you to change the springs... only the boards (which have different spring configurations).
Ha! I just asked my daughter and she said they do change them themselves during practice. I haven’t watched in years so I didn’t know. She seemed surprised that I didn’t know that and said “of course we change them, not everyone can go on the same number” Apparently she uses 6.Is it bad that my daughter has been in this sport a long time and I didn't even know that the number of springs in a springboard was variable or that changing them was a thing?? lol
I do know that they have 2 vaults set at different heights, but never knew that the springboard could change. I'm guessing they don't change them every practice for her group? Her teammates are all fairly similar age/size now so maybe that's why.
Not one I'll claim any sort of confidence in. My gut intuition is that the ideal number of springs is whatever number results in the board almost-but-not-quite bottoming out when the athlete punches it, but I wouldn't be able to give any sort of detailed breakdown of why.@Geoffrey Taucer Do you have any sort of a physics break down on the difference that number of springs can make? Seems like there are lots of variables in this one.
It’s been a long time since I took a dynamics class, but the force of a compressed spring is equal to K*X, where K is a constant dependent on the nature of the spring (thickness, material, etc) and X is the amount of displacement from resting.Not one I'll claim any sort of confidence in. My gut intuition is that the ideal number of springs is whatever number results in the board almost-but-not-quite bottoming out when the athlete punches it, but I wouldn't be able to give any sort of detailed breakdown of why.
Given that, from a force perspective I don’t think the number of springs would matter at all — assuming that you’re hitting them hard enough to displace them all.
Yes. Basically if you measured them at rest, then measured them at their most compressed when you vault, the difference would be X.Displace... that means to push them down... right?
Ok, so just spitballing here, butIt’s been a long time since I took a dynamics class, but the force of a compressed spring is equal to K*X, where K is a constant dependent on the nature of the spring (thickness, material, etc) and X is the amount of displacement from resting.
Given that, from a force perspective I don’t think the number of springs would matter at all — assuming that you’re hitting them hard enough to displace them all.
What I think would be different is the deceleration on your body. You’d be much much more likely to hurt yourself vaulting on a board that barely moves than you would on one that displaces more. This is because your deceleration upon hitting the board would be much higher with less spring displacement.
The above assumes we’re talking about ideal springs, which we probably aren’t. The above expression only holds away from the extreme ends of compression (too little and too much). I don’t think I’ve ever seen an expression for a non ideal spring.
Given that, I think “just enough springs so you don’t get too close to bottoming out” is probably the right call. Just from an injury perspective, if nothing else.
I think you're right, but you need to keep in mind the the different acceleration/deceleration, which is going to be very apparent. When you jump on a spring with your full weight, the landing and take off is going to feel a lot softer if the spring compresses more -- this is due to spreading out the application of force over time.Ok, so just spitballing here, but
My understanding (and let me give a disclaimer that my education in mechanics is entirely informal) is that if an athlete puts in X amount of energy to compressing the springs, it doesn't really make a difference whether I'm slightly compressing a stiff springboard or significantly compressing a soft one, as they'll both put the same amount of power back out for a given amount of power put in, right?
@JPC13 does this sound right to you, or am I way off base?