WAG Bars deduction question -- level 7

[Texasmomof3]

Dd had a new one this weekend.

She she hit her foot on the high bar doing her layout flyaway. So, her coach put his arm out to catch her. She landed it clean, but he did touch her before she saluted. I was told this counts as a fall since the coach touched her. (I don't blame him, he was reaching out to prevent an injury.) But I was told there is also a deduction for her hitting her foot, which I was told counts as a second fall.

Is this true? Is there a deduction for hitting your feet on the bar?

Frankly, I think she deserved bonus points for banging her foot and still landing clean.

 

[Gymmommy71]

I believe hitting feet on bar or on the ground below the low bar during the routine counts the same as a fall - .5. I wouldn't be surprised if the coach touching her was another .5...

 

[lovemygymnast]

Following. My dd did this at practice & so glad your dds coach caught her. My dd wasn't so lucky.

 

[fuzi]

USAG, I assume. 0.2 for hitting the bar with feet. If you hit the bar with your feet, you're inevitably too close to the bar, so there's a flat 0.1 for "landing dismount too close to apparatus."

If she did the flyaway unassisted and then the coach caught her as she fell after, it's an 0.5 deduction for the fall. We don't deduct another 0.5 for a spot on a fall, as we want the coach to step in for safety. If the coach spotted her on the flyaway, she'd lose 0.5 for the spot and get no credit for the skill.

 

[Texasmomof3]

Thanks, yes. USAG.

So it sounds like a minimum of .8 deduction on the dismount, plus any other form issues. (.2 for hitting feet, .1 for close to apparatus, .5 for coach touching her).

He did not spot her on the dismount, he simply reached out to try to catch her after she hit her feet. She landed unassisted, believe it or not, but then he reached her to get an arm around her right after she landed.

 

[HoldThePhone]

Dd had a new one this weekend.

She she hit her foot on the high bar doing her layout flyaway. So, her coach put his arm out to catch her. She landed it clean, but he did touch her before she saluted. I was told this counts as a fall since the coach touched her. (I don't blame him, he was reaching out to prevent an injury.) But I was told there is also a deduction for her hitting her foot, which I was told counts as a second fall.

Is this true? Is there a deduction for hitting your feet on the bar?

Frankly, I think she deserved bonus points for banging her foot and still landing clean.

Poor thing, that had to hurt! DD did it in lattice once and had a bruised toe for a few weeks! I'm amazed she was able to still land it clean!

USAG, I assume. 0.2 for hitting the bar with feet. If you hit the bar with your feet, you're inevitably too close to the bar, so there's a flat 0.1 for "landing dismount too close to apparatus."

If she did the flyaway unassisted and then the coach caught her as she fell after, it's an 0.5 deduction for the fall. We don't deduct another 0.5 for a spot on a fall, as we want the coach to step in for safety. If the coach spotted her on the flyaway, she'd lose 0.5 for the spot and get no credit for the skill.

Off the topic, but since you brought it up, what is the value of the dismount, in this case the flyaway. DD was spotted on hers for the first meet, and I'm just curious. I knew she lost the value, and .5 for the spot, I just didn't know what the value was.

 

[flipandfly]

Poor thing, that had to hurt! DD did it in lattice once and had a bruised toe for a few weeks! I'm amazed she was able to still land it clean!



Off the topic, but since you brought it up, what is the value of the dismount, in this case the flyaway. DD was spotted on hers for the first meet, and I'm just curious. I knew she lost the value, and .5 for the spot, I just didn't know what the value was.

I competed a few meets last year without the flyaway. The flyaway is worth 0.6 and if you don't do it at all, then you lose 1.2. Not sure if that applies for your situation. My bars scores unfortunately dipped into the upper sevens until I competed the skill.

 

[fuzi]

The flyaway is worth 0.6 in level 5, so if you omit it, you lose double the value (1.2).

In optionals, if you are spotted on a skill, you do not get credit for the skill. In level 7, for example, you need 5 A skills and 2 B skills. If you needed the flyaway to count as an A, you lose 0.1 for missing an A. You'd also get dinged for not having the special requirement of an A salto or Hecht dismount (0.5) and then 0.5 for the spot itself.

 

[3rd_time_around]

It sounds like she lost .5 for the spot. It's not counted as a fall, and neither is the hitting the bar with the foot, but there are deductions for both. As long as she completed the dismount before he touched her, she got credit for the skill.

My daughter was notorious for hitting the bar with her toe(s) and ripping her toenail off in the process. This happened more than once (or twice). She also dismounted too close to the bar once, and came down hitting her head and feet on the high bar--Bam! Bam! The video is quite exhilarating. She popped the barrette off her head and bruised her feet.

 

[munchkin3]

I hope she didn't hurt her feet too bad.......
Don't feel bad, mine got a deduction for adding the sole circle.....the judges said she covered up a fall with the sole circle......LOL.

 

[Ali'sMom]

Frankly, I think she deserved bonus points for banging her foot and still landing clean.

Last year DD hit her foot on low bar coming out of a terrific handstand. Unfortunately it was enough to halt her momentum into flyaway. She hung. Had swings to power herself to kip back up. Rested on the top bar. Casted (barely), then did flyaway and landed on her hands.

Someone with knowledge added up what possibly could have been 1.5 or more deductions.

So I'm definitely sending your DD some bonus points!!!!

 

[Tuppy]

Dd had a new one this weekend.

She she hit her foot on the high bar doing her layout flyaway. So, her coach put his arm out to catch her. She landed it clean, but he did touch her before she saluted. I was told this counts as a fall since the coach touched her. (I don't blame him, he was reaching out to prevent an injury.) But I was told there is also a deduction for her hitting her foot, which I was told counts as a second fall.

Is this true? Is there a deduction for hitting your feet on the bar?

Frankly, I think she deserved bonus points for banging her foot and still landing clean.

Hope her foot was ok. She got bonus points on my score card.

 

[HoldThePhone]

I competed a few meets last year without the flyaway. The flyaway is worth 0.6 and if you don't do it at all, then you lose 1.2. Not sure if that applies for your situation. My bars scores unfortunately dipped into the upper sevens until I competed the skill.

The flyaway is worth 0.6 in level 5, so if you omit it, you lose double the value (1.2).

In optionals, if you are spotted on a skill, you do not get credit for the skill. In level 7, for example, you need 5 A skills and 2 B skills. If you needed the flyaway to count as an A, you lose 0.1 for missing an A. You'd also get dinged for not having the special requirement of an A salto or Hecht dismount (0.5) and then 0.5 for the spot itself.

She has her giant, and flyaway, but her coach spotted the flyaway, as she hadn't done the connection on her own before the first meet. It's not a big deal really, I was just curious how much that took from her score. I assume the start value would reflect the value of the skill being taken, but not the spot? I'm not sure what the start value was anyway, I didn't see it. She should more than have it by the next meet, so it's really just for my own curiousity.

 

[Texasmomof3]

[QUOTE="In optionals, if you are spotted on a skill, you do not get credit for the skill. In level 7, for example, you need 5 A skills and 2 B skills. If you needed the flyaway to count as an A, you lose 0.1 for missing an A. You'd also get dinged for not having the special requirement of an A salto or Hecht dismount (0.5) and then 0.5 for the spot itself.[/QUOTE]

Re-reading this, I am confused again.

Her routine is kip, cast to handstand, clear hip (theoretical to handstand but she doesn't quite hit that yet), squat on, jump to high bar, kip, cast to hand stand, giant, giant, layout flyaway.

Her gym says the layout flyaway is mandatory for level 7, but wouldn't the level 5 tuck flyaway count as a salto dismount? She has had the tuck flyaway for two years but almost had to scratch bars because she didn't get the layout flyaway until the day before the first meet.

 

[l.c.o]

@Texasmomof3 I'm not sure, but that could be a gym preference type of thing.

To OP, ouch! I agree with others that she should earn bonus points - it's amazing that she saved it! I'm no expert so I can't really help with your question though.

 

[fuzi]

She has her giant, and flyaway, but her coach spotted the flyaway, as she hadn't done the connection on her own before the first meet. It's not a big deal really, I was just curious how much that took from her score. I assume the start value would reflect the value of the skill being taken, but not the spot? I'm not sure what the start value was anyway, I didn't see it. She should more than have it by the next meet, so it's really just for my own curiousity.

Her start value would probably be a 9.4 with a spot on the flyaway. Her actual score would deduct 0.5 for the spot plus whatever other execution errors from that 9.4.

 

[fuzi]

Re-reading this, I am confused again.

Her routine is kip, cast to handstand, clear hip (theoretical to handstand but she doesn't quite hit that yet), squat on, jump to high bar, kip, cast to hand stand, giant, giant, layout flyaway.

Her gym says the layout flyaway is mandatory for level 7, but wouldn't the level 5 tuck flyaway count as a salto dismount? She has had the tuck flyaway for two years but almost had to scratch bars because she didn't get the layout flyaway until the day before the first meet.

The tuck flyaway does meet the minimum requirement for level 7 (though it sounds like her gym has higher expectations). Most level 7s will do a layout flyaway.

You're gymmie has plenty of skills in her routine, so if she was spotted on the flyaway, she would have a 9.5 start value (because she was spotted it does not count as filling the dismount special requirement). Any execution errors and the 0.5 deduction for the spot on the flyaway would be deducted from her 9.5 start value.

If she did no dismount at all, like giant-giant-stop her swing-jump off, she would have a 9.2 start value (missing a special requirement plus an 0.3 extra deduction for no dismount). Any execution errors and 0.5 for the "fall" since she jumped off the bars would be subtracted from the 9.2. I actually had one of my kids do this exact thing at a recent meet.

I hope this helps. Optional scoring is pretty tricky to understand.

 

[duyetanh]

It sounds like she lost .5 for the spot. It's not counted as a fall, and neither is the hitting the bar with the foot, but there are deductions for both. As long as she completed the dismount before he touched her, she got credit for the skill.

My daughter was notorious for hitting the bar with her toe(s) and ripping her toenail off in the process. This happened more than once (or twice). She also dismounted too close to the bar once, and came down hitting her head and feet on the high bar--Bam! Bam! The video is quite exhilarating. She popped the barrette off her head and bruised her feet.

Oh. My. GOD!!!
I truly would have been sick right there over that one.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Oh. My. GOD!!!
I truly would have been sick right there over that one.

Haha! My initial reaction was annoyance (CGM) because it was the only event she was doing at that meet. The rest of the crowd gasped quite admirably. I just said, "Really? Are you kidding me? " About 5 months later I saw the video clip on the end of the year highlight DVD (someone else filmed it, I didn't get it), and didn't realize it was my dd, and I was like, "Oh my gosh! She's dismounting too close to the bar!" And I gasped in horror. Then my dd and I looked at each other in surprise and yelled "That's you/That's me!" And we both cracked up laughing. We're weird, I know. But yeah, after seeing it on video, I realized how bad it could have been. But that tuft of hair sticking up where the barrette had been was just too funny!

 

[3rd_time_around]

I believe hitting feet on bar or on the ground below the low bar during the routine counts the same as a fall - .5. I wouldn't be surprised if the coach touching her was another .5...

The deduction for hitting the apparatus is not the same as a fall, neither is hitting her foot on the ground. Now if the foot hit the mat and full support was obtained on the mat, then that is the same as a fall. And the coach touching her is .5.