Coaches Appropriate leveling?

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trackandfield6

Coach
Proud Parent
Big topic I know. Being old...lol... 65, and having coached forever, I have experienced many situations. For myself, I was D-1 gymnast, back in the day, however, times are much different. Obviously it's gotten extremely more competitive. I look at kids through my own personal lens, which is something I am also cautious about doing. I do not like to box kids in because they can change. That being said, when I see and/or coach kids, that I am pretty sure will never make it to level 8 even, but they want to do gym in college, what am I supposed to do? Tell them the truth? Personally, I feel there is so much to gain, and any level that is perfect for each child, is not a loss. At the same time I do not want to discourage them, by saying that they could never do this level or that, but I also don't want to lie. In all of my years coaching, I have seen a lot. I have seen kids with natural ability, and no drive. I have seen kids with lots of drive and no ability. Then there are the ones that are in-between those two groups. I have watched, as a gymnast with a lot of drive, has been beat out by a gymnast with no drive and lots of natural ability. I have rarely seen one with the whole package, fearlessness, power, quick twitch muscle fiber, and desire. So, when leveling, the kids for the next season, how do you all handle this? I can deal with the getting of skills and conditioning parts, but assessing a gymnasts drive is a hard thing do. You have the gymnasts opinion of what that means, the coaches opinion and then the parents opinion. I have kids with talent, but not much intrinsic drive. I have kids with not much natural ability, and some drive. I have only one that is fearless, with a little drive, and a natural athlete.The parents don't get what this takes. I am not yelling at kids to do stuff, so I want to place them properly. In short.... within reason, I feel like the desire has to come from within the gymnast. I can assist in that, but I cannot make that. Thoughts?
 
Drive can’t be taught and lots of girls have drive until they hit a certain age and get fed up with what they’re giving up. A 7 year old can be easily bribed into working harder but a 13 year old isn’t going to give a crap if they don’t give a crap. There’s a girl who is on our level who is insanely naturally talented but maybe the laziest at actually practicing. So she ended up repeating 7 instead of doing 8 like was planned. She killed level 7, and that made her happy because she was winning but the same trend is repeating this summer: she’s practicing for 9 to get back on track, and because of the effort she puts in, the coach has told her he doesn’t fully believe she’ll make it to 8, let alone 9.

I wouldn’t tell a child they can’t make it to college gymnastics. What do you gain by telling them? As long as they work hard and keep making any kind of gains, move them along at the appropriate pace. No need to crush dreams if it doesn’t help anyone
 
I think it kind of depends. When I had teenagers or even older preteens in Xcel gold or platinum tell me they wanted to do gymnastics at UCLA, I don't think it was bad to point out that most of those girls were already level 9 or 10 by their age. I also explain that Xcel really sets you up better for high school gymnastics and dev is more likely to lead to college and it helped them set more realistic expectations and goals. I would also gladly point out that some schools have club teams that welcome a range of levels.

I think you can be honest about where their skill level is at or even make comments like "well to get to level 8, you really have to work hard" or "focusing on each turn will help you improve to get that next skill" or "if you took more turns instead of spending all your time talking at the chalk bucket, you would have a better chance at - moving up, getting that skill, putting that routine together, etc." If laziness in certain parts of conditioning is an issue you can say something like "If you want to improve your vault/learn a new one, it's really important to focus on this exercise we are doing".

I will also say that sometimes when we have kids on the bubble of a level, we consider their personality. Will they do better if they have an extra year where they're winning and building confidence or will they feel better moving up and maybe struggling a little bit but pushing themselves to learn more new things and maybe getting a chance to be with more of their friends? In some cases, it also makes sense to involve the athlete and parent in this discussion.
 
Kids need long term goals to help drive them. The goals don’t have to be realistic, as long as the kids believe they are realistic it will drive them.

I have 12 year old level 2’a who are convinced they are going to the Olympics.

One day, they will realise for themselves that it will never happen. But by the time they do, that wonderful goal will have helped them to dedicate and work hard and they will be a far better gymnast that they would have been if they didn’t have that goal.

The only time I think the bubble needs to be burst is if the parents are sacrificing their lives for an unrealistic goal. Like moving across the country to train at an elite gym, taking a second mortgage out to pay for extra privates etc.
 
Kids need long term goals to help drive them. The goals don’t have to be realistic, as long as the kids believe they are realistic it will drive them.

I have 12 year old level 2’a who are convinced they are going to the Olympics.

One day, they will realise for themselves that it will never happen. But by the time they do, that wonderful goal will have helped them to dedicate and work hard and they will be a far better gymnast that they would have been if they didn’t have that goal.

The only time I think the bubble needs to be burst is if the parents are sacrificing their lives for an unrealistic goal. Like moving across the country to train at an elite gym, taking a second mortgage out to pay for extra privates etc.
Yes for sure, a discussion should be had with parents if you see them trying to implode their families for gymnastics. They probably won’t appreciate it, might change gyms to one that “believes in the dream” but at least an honest conversation there can be warranted
 
I agree with what everyone has already said. I would emphasize not to be harsh with the hard truth/bursting of bubbles but focus on the truth of what it takes to get to college. For example, if they are a low-level compulsory gymnast and have little chance of college, I would just let them know that they need to get to Level 10 at the very latest sophomore or junior year of high school. Let them figure out how many levels they need to advance, not you saying, "You will never make it because you are not talented enough or work hard enough and you are too old to get there at this point." That just deflates any hope or enthusiasm for the sport. And you never know maybe they could get to D3 or acro, cheer, or other off shoots of gymnastics which are increasing in popularity and at the college level.
 
As a parent, I respect honesty from coaches' discussions based on this topic. My girl is at the point where she might progress to make it to college gym. Still, everything is so up in the air at her age (10 yo). She's a good gymnast, but her tenacity may not continue enough to make the expected progression. It's definitely good to have conversations with families and gymnasts about the expectations and commitments to make it to college gym. It is hard to watch some families talk about or decide to homeschool (just for gymnastics) when the gymnast has not even made it to DP or upper levels of xcel. I don't know if they are delusional or just don't get it yet?
 
I definitely agree with most of what's being said here. And definitely agree it's not necessary to burst the bubble of a hard working gymnast. My daughter is one of those who has tremendous drive, a hard work ethic and intense passion for the sport, but not a lot of "natural" talent. She has to work much harder to get the skills that others can get without a lot of effort. Still, the coaches at our gym value her work ethic in the same way that they value the athletes with more natural ability. And it works! She's driven, succeeding at the pace that is meant for her and still able to dream the dream. Not to mention she's learning life lessons for how to work hard and be appreciated for it.

There's absolutely no reason to have to blow anyone's dream just because one coach doesn't think you have "natural ability." I feel it's up to the athlete to come to terms with their own dreams and to have people around them - and especially their coaches - believe in them as long as possible and encourage them along the way.

I would hope that hard work ethic could be weighted equally to natural ability when it comes to putting together groups and levels. Or, perhaps putting an athlete with "natural ability" and lower drive in a lower level might be just the lesson they need to be forced to pick up the pace a bit and show a bit more drive and determination.

As for the hard working athlete, it would be great for them to be placed in a higher level to be rewarded for their work ethic and challenged to keep working towards their goal - as a way to keep them encouraged and recognized for their dedication to this demanding sport.
 
Big topic I know. Being old...lol... 65, and having coached forever,
I am not familiar with the gymnastics scene, outside of what I see in my local club. I know nothing about the competitive levels.

I started trampoline a year ago as a way to alleviate depression. That works. I am even older than you, 70. I will never do triple this and that, but I enjoy challenging myself, and constantly, if slowly improving. I recognize that I cannot make a serious mistake, so there is a lot of repetition, and only slow expansion of my repertoire.

In our university PE program (every freshman had to take 2 semesters) they had a raft of activities. Their goal was to make activity a habit, introduce people to new ways of recreation. I took a term of fencing and marksmanship.

In my club the little kids are wildly enthusiastic, with a mix of games and basic skills done in the form of a game. As the age increases, the population thins. This is a club that has several hundred members. Every school break has camps, things are pretty busy all summer. They have 1 class a week for adults. This is a multi-stream class, 1.5 hours long with the first half hour being warmup and some general skills, and the hour being a 'choose your poison' activity. One guy is learning rings, one parallel bars etc. With 10 in the class in theory I will get about 6 minutes of instruction. Indeed, that is often all I need to get a few pointers on form or demos of a different way to do things.

But the key is: Why so few adults? We have active slowpitch, curling, old timer hockey leagues, running clubs, cycling clubs, but not gymnastics. Kids leave because it's no longer fun. What stops it being fun? Can the programs be modified, augmented, adding a recreation stream to the competitive stream so that more adults will do this a leisure activity?
 

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