Coaches Arching over or under the low bar?

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gymisforeveryone

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We have to use FIG setting for bars on all the levels so the bars are relatively close to each other, especially for the older and taller girls. Most of my gymnasts are old and tall so this is something that they struggle with. Learning giants on a single rail is pretty easy, but when they have to put them between the bars they have to re-learn them.

However, I realize that there are many techniques to clear the low bar on giants. Most of the gymnast straddle and then do an arch where the feet go under the low bar. This is the most common technique I see. Some pike and then arch under the low bar, and some short girls just hollow over the low bar and then arch after clearing it. Some (including some of my own kids) bend their legs to clear the bar because they never learned to straddle and then they suddenly were too tall and couldn't learn the new technique because of fears of whatever.

But I have seen more and more the technique where the gymnast arches over the low bar. This happens mostly before the dismount, but some do it for regular giants too. It must have something to do with being able to time the tap right to not release too late and hit the bar on the dismount, right? So it gives the dismount more height and distance?

Some gymnasts seem to just do a normal straddle and then arch under the low bar on regular giants but then arch over the low bar for the dismount.

Do you teach this technique? I was wondering if I should teach this technique for my girls who are doing double back dismounts? I have one particular girl with a pretty solid double back from a single rail but she has not tried putting it on real bars yet. How should I teach her? She's doing a straddle to clear the low bar on regular giants. She's just 11 but very tall for her, at least 160 cm.
 
ah... and the answer is..... depends who you talk to. :) Personally I use several taps. We tap over the low bar to do a flyaway. Then we change to late tap for doubles, and then even later for double lays. But! a few people teach the early tap for everything. Valarie was a big advocate for the early tap for giants and double lays.
 
Oh I see! Thanks coachp. That's what I guessed... So maybe we will just try the straddle technique and tap under the bar like for regular giants, and then if that doesn't work we'll try arching over the low bar.

I have some other technical questions, I would not like to start a new thread. Coachp and others, if you have answers please give your input!

1. How do you teach your gymnast to use thumbs on bars, or do you just let them figure it out by themselves and do what feels right? I have taught my gymnasts to wrap the thumbs around the bar for cast handstands and pirouettes, is this correct? When they kip-cast-handstand, what is the best moment to wrap the thumbs around the bar? During the kip or on the way up?

2. How about giant 1/2 turn (or just swing half turn over the horizontal) and the arm that stays on the bar? Should they wrap the thumb around when the other hand releases the bar?

3. Pak saltos. Should the feet pretty much stay at the same spot where they are when the gymnast releases the bar and arches back? So ideally the feet don't move forward or backwars? How high should the feet go and what should be the angle where the release happens? And do you teach them to tap or not?

4. Bails. Tap or no? And where should the shoulders be (related to the body) when they release the first arm? Should the shoulder angle be open or slightly closed? Should the body position be like a candle stick position?
 
Oh I see! Thanks coachp. That's what I guessed... So maybe we will just try the straddle technique and tap under the bar like for regular giants, and then if that doesn't work we'll try arching over the low bar.

I have some other technical questions, I would not like to start a new thread. Coachp and others, if you have answers please give your input!

1. How do you teach your gymnast to use thumbs on bars, or do you just let them figure it out by themselves and do what feels right? I have taught my gymnasts to wrap the thumbs around the bar for cast handstands and pirouettes, is this correct? When they kip-cast-handstand, what is the best moment to wrap the thumbs around the bar? During the kip or on the way up?

2. How about giant 1/2 turn (or just swing half turn over the horizontal) and the arm that stays on the bar? Should they wrap the thumb around when the other hand releases the bar?

3. Pak saltos. Should the feet pretty much stay at the same spot where they are when the gymnast releases the bar and arches back? So ideally the feet don't move forward or backwars? How high should the feet go and what should be the angle where the release happens? And do you teach them to tap or not?

4. Bails. Tap or no? And where should the shoulders be (related to the body) when they release the first arm? Should the shoulder angle be open or slightly closed? Should the body position be like a candle stick position?
some of the answers are specific to the child, and some of the answers are hidden in the technique, in other words just come in our gym for a few days. :)
 
Oh I see! Thanks coachp. That's what I guessed... So maybe we will just try the straddle technique and tap under the bar like for regular giants, and then if that doesn't work we'll try arching over the low bar.

I have some other technical questions, I would not like to start a new thread. Coachp and others, if you have answers please give your input!

1. How do you teach your gymnast to use thumbs on bars, or do you just let them figure it out by themselves and do what feels right? I have taught my gymnasts to wrap the thumbs around the bar for cast handstands and pirouettes, is this correct? When they kip-cast-handstand, what is the best moment to wrap the thumbs around the bar? During the kip or on the way up?
** I teach them no thumbs, then later they can wrap them on the H stand (not during the kip). I also teach a front giant no thumbs, then later they can wrap them. For the blind, they will most likely wrap the thumb on the post arm, this is typically automatic.
2. How about giant 1/2 turn (or just swing half turn over the horizontal) and the arm that stays on the bar? Should they wrap the thumb around when the other hand releases the bar?

3. Pak saltos. Should the feet pretty much stay at the same spot where they are when the gymnast releases the bar and arches back? So ideally the feet don't move forward or backwars? How high should the feet go and what should be the angle where the release happens? And do you teach them to tap or not?
** I teach a tap for sure, but this is highly technical and cannot be explained here. way too much to go over. You are welcome to study our kids Pac saltos. We have a lot...
4. Bails. Tap or no? And where should the shoulders be (related to the body) when they release the first arm? Should the shoulder angle be open or slightly closed? Should the body position be like a candle stick position?
expand your post I filled in replies above.
Some call it a tap and at the very beginning I let them tap, but ultimately I want them to kill the swing down to the bottom and get completely straight at vertical, then scoop. release position varies, I teach a hollow which will include the shoulder a little on release. When and were depends on the kid and how early or late they are dropping off and if they are doing a 2 hand or one one release. (I teach both).
 
Thank you so much!

What do you mean by the term "scoop". I looked it up from a dictionary because it's a new one for me, but I still don't understand.

Also, I didn't know that bails can be taught two different ways. I though that the one hand release is the only technique. But now that you mentioned it, I realize that many gymnasts seem to release the arms almost simultaneously.

My gymnasts are working on bails and paks. I find it very difficult to see what's going on when I spot them, I'm so close to them and I have to focus on spotting. Maybe we will take some videos next week and I'll try to analyze them in more details.
 

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