WAG Article in Dance Magazine

[Flyaway]

This showed up in my Facebook newsfeed. Thoughts?

http://dancemagazine.com/views/gymnastics-insults-dance/

 

[ladybird]

I read the article and I am going to turn it around and say that dance also "insults" gymnastics. My older dd is a dancer and we go to many dance competitions throughout the year. I cringe when I see some of these dancers do their "tricks."

Bent knees, flexed feet, legs all wonky in back handsprings. I wonder if the dance judges judge "tricks/tumbling" in dance routines the same way gymnastics judges judge "dance" in floor routines?

 

[cadybearsmommy]

I read the article and I am going to turn it around and say that dance also "insults" gymnastics. My older dd is a dancer and we go to many dance competitions throughout the year. I cringe when I see some of these dancers do their "tricks."

Bent knees, flexed feet, legs all wonky in back handsprings. I wonder if the dance judges judge "tricks/tumbling" in dance routines the same way gymnastics judges judge "dance" in floor routines?

Amen!! This couldn't be more true!!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I think its pretty much spot on. The tumbling and turns have gotten so huge that the artistry and dance has been diminished.

Some think that is good. Some think it is bad.

Beam used to be my favorite event to watch, for me it just wasn't the flips and turns, it was how each piece flowed near seamlessly into the next. Floor as well but not quite like beam. How it flowed together. Today the moves are so difficult that the fluidity is lost to set up a double whatever.

The author is missing something that has been sacrificed for athletics. That is in fact correct. Again, some folks like it, some don't.

 

[gymgal]

I agree with the article. Either take it out all together, like the mens (girls cheering everywhere except at college competitions!) or make the dance count more. Unfortunately, it is so subjective that it would be hard to judge, unless you just require a certain number of "true" dance sequences, but again, if the quality of it isn't going to be judged, then I am not sure how much good the requirement will do.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

From the article on another thread..................

Take, for instance, the wolf turn, in which a gymnast crouches on one leg, attempts to stick her other leg parallel to the ground, and spins around. It’s an impressive move—if anyone could pull it off with any measure of grace. Biles does it better than perhaps any gymnast in the world, but even her version (see it here, at the one-minute mark) is wobbly. She does it, as do several other American gymnasts, because the wolf turn is awarded enough points that doing an ugly version is worth more than doing many more elegant maneuvers. (The F.I.G. has said that it will give fewer points to the skill when the Code is rejiggered, after the Olympics.) Critics charge that such tactical emphasis has taken the balletic grace out of the sport, to which Karolyi would respond that if you want to watch gymnasts perform like ballerinas, you’re welcome to watch the Dutch prance their way to an aesthetically pleasing off-podium finish later today. The Americans will happily optimize their way to gold.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/how-to-really-watch-olympic-gymnastics

 

[Committed]

Big eyeroll for the article. These girls don't claim to be dancers.
And, yes, many dancers try gymnastics moves that aren't always impeccable.

On at vein..... does cheerleading insult both dance and gymnastics?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

On at vein..... does cheerleading insult both dance and gymnastics?

yep

 

[cadybearsmommy]

I will say that I really do enjoy the artistic routines from back in the day. I also enjoyed watching the gymnasts from the Netherlands in Rio. It's nice to see something different from the norm. I think in some way though, there have always been gymnasts that were more "artistic" than others. The new rules however, do favor more of the power moves and tumbling over dance. I've seen a lot of impressive dance from some of the up and coming juniors however, so maybe the next few years will show a better blend of the two. I don't really care whether it's more classical dance/music or more sassy/fun like Laurie Hernandez but I do enjoy seeing a gymnast really go all out and perform their routine whether their dance is perfect or not.

The article makes some good points, but what bothers me is that you see a lot of looking down on the gymnastics community from the dance community. I just get tired of the "holier than thou" attitude from those who study only dance and know very little about what it takes to be a successful gymnast. And especially when they don't always teach tumbling in dance with the best methods or form either. So as the previous poster pointed out, they are essentially doing the same thing. However I wouldn't write an article to criticize them.

LOL, what is funny is that I have some friends whose daughter do cheer and they say that they get the same kind of criticism from those involved with gymnastics, about their tumbling skills not being performed right, with poor form, lack of safety measures, etc. And I will admit I've seen some things in cheer that made me cringe. But I wouldn't go up and criticize them because I simply don't know enough about their sport to pass judgement. I think the bottom line is that gymnastics, cheer and dance are all different, even when similar moves are performed across the map, they look and are taught differently.

Now do I think dance classes can be beneficial for a gymnast, absolutely. Our gym requires a one hour dance class for all girls of a certain level and up. I think at the elite level it's almost a necessity and I'm sure (or would hope) that most elite gymnasts have a dance teacher or coach. Gymnastics dance has always been different from traditional dance but it's becoming more and more it's own thing altogether.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I have some friends whose daughter do cheer and they say that they get the same kind of criticism from those involved with gymnastics, about their tumbling skills not being performed right, with poor form, lack of safety measures, etc. And I will admit I've seen some things in cheer that made me cringe.

Our school district. high school.

Sport with the most head injuries recent calendar year

Football? No
Soccer? No
Lacrosse? No
Baseball/Softball? No
Gymnastics (yes we have a team)? No

Cheerleading? Yep cheerleading

 

[cadybearsmommy]

Our school district. high school.

Sport with the most head injuries recent calendar year

Football? No
Soccer? No
Lacrosse? No
Baseball/Softball? No
Gymnastics (yes we have a team)? No

Cheerleading? Yep cheerleading

I don't doubt it at all. I don't think our cheerleaders at our local high school have that problem b/c they don't tumble or stunt, strictly sideline cheering only. Not sure why, maybe they are afraid to take on the liability of a competition cheer type squad? But there are a TON of all star cheer/tumbling gyms around here. Literally one on every corner.

On another note, I am super jealous that your schools have a gymnastics team! That's so awesome!

 

[gymgal]

About the wolf turn, and other turns, not sure you can compare dancer to gymnast as they are doing them on completely different surfaces. Got to be harder on carpet covered foam compared to a dance floor. But I guess that is their point. If it can't be don't will, why do it. Just different standards, just like a dancer's acrobatics. Many are very scary looking when performed poorly!

 

[Flyaway]

At least doing a turn wrong won't likely result in a head/neck injury!

 

[twinmomma]

Isn't putting down cheerleading no different than the article here putting down gymnastics for their dance not being "dancy" enough? Why do we feel the need to be "better than" some other sport. Yes, cheer has a lot of injuries, when the quarterback starts getting thrown in the air by the defensive linemen, then maybe you could compare the two. But you can't. Does it need more safety measures and requirements? Probably. But unless you're in it, or your kid is in it, then I'm not sure you have space to talk.

Dance is dance. Gymnastics is gymnastics. Cheer is cheer. The article is wrong. Gymnastics has evolved. Period. Is the focus less on dance? Yes. End of story.

 

[Dr Maleficent]

I agree with the article in so much as the 'dance' elements can be very distracting when the gymnast clearly has no aptitude for dance at all. Beam is the worst for this - what on earth posesses coaches to think it looks good for a girl to do an amazing sequence then stand at the end of the beam and flap their hands weirdly as if they are trying to flick away an irritating bug? What is with that? I would completely vote for 'dance' elements to be taken out of beam routines. I kind of like it on the floor because when it is well done it makes a routine flow and look really completed in a way that the men's don't, but I don't think women should be penalised for not being great dancers. But no more weird flappy hands on beam! Please!

 

[Iwannabemargo]

lol, "reduces the urge to vacuum"

 

[Dr Maleficent]

lol, "reduces the urge to vacuum"

What does?
Or, in my case, what doesn't?!

 

[gymgal]

lol, "reduces the urge to vacuum"

What does?
Or, in my case, what doesn't?!

Could be wrong but I think it refers to a line in the movie "stick it" about vacuuming movements on beam

 

[ayyyrial]

Gymnasts shouldn't try to dance like full-time trained dancers, but dance and grace are (or should be) a part of women's gymnastics. Those gymnasts of the 80s like Omelianchik aren't incredible dancers by dance standards, but they do perform in a way that a lot of today's gymnasts don't, and certainly have more dance training. It just makes it more interesting to watch. Smart choreographers are also needed in order to make sure each routine plays to the gymnast's strengths. The article is complaining about something that is also identified among gymnastics fans and participants and I think it's completely fair...even though they went with a dramatic headline to get more clicks.

In fact I wish they'd limit women's floor routines to 3 passes in order to expand the attention given to dance. So many elite routines have a double back pike and a double back tuck, I don't think it changes much from a spectator's perspective to eliminate one of the two. Of course I'll never get my wish

 

[gymyogimom]

Now look at rhythmic gymnastics, hello ballet, basic tumbling.