Attitude

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Interesting recommendation! I love parenting books, so I'm happy to check it out. I've read over 40 books in parenting, which may actually be why I now psychoanalyze every parenting step I take (probably not a good thing) but if you're recommending the book, what's one more! Plus, I noticed it's religion based. We're a non religious family, but my daughter goes to a christian church with my friend. (My daughter believes in that for now, and we support her beliefs even if they differ from ours). That said, I've wanted to expose her to beliefs from other religions as well (she's already exposed to our non-religious views, so no need to further exposure there lol). So, I appreciate the recommendation. Should be an interesting read :)

The one thing we definitely have down is resisting over scheduling. Our daughter has an "I want to do it all attitude" and we always tell her to pick one thing (which always ends up being gymnastics). But if it were up to her, she'd also do ballet, tap, swimming, tennis, and piano. I tell her she can do anything she wants, but she has to pick one thing, and so far, she's been really good with that. She's also generally very good with chores, meals, and independence (to be honest, I would prefer her to accept a little more help than she does, but there's no major issues in that regard...well, I guess unless her desire to be independent is contributing to her attitude...then it is a problem).

But it may still be helpful in terms of teaching her to remain *consistently* respectful. Or maybe helpful in helping me change my expectations of her behavior? (It may take some convincing to make me think that I SHOULDN'T expect good behavior all the time, even if she's not always able to give it. Because she might not be at her best, and I AM okay with that, but I think she needs to learn how to be in a bad mood without being nasty toward others.)

Anyway, clearly you're recommending this book for a reason, so I'll see what I can get out of it :)
 
She's 5. At that age communication and social skills aren't fully developed.

My own comments would be- leave her coaches to deal with her inside the gym. It is going to add a whole lot of stress on her if she's working, but has part of her brain worrying if she's pleasing you, or there are any consequences when she gets out of practice. She is 5, and isnt always going to be able to think beyond the moment. Let her know that if any coach has an issue with her, you will back them and their actions up. But I don't think you watching and judging her behaviour when your not responsible for it, is useful. I took my mom to practice to watch dd this week, and she's sat there saying I need to tell her to do this, that, point toes, listen to the coach, make sure she takes her turn.... In the end I just had to say look mom, that's what the coach is there for. In training she should be focussed on herself and her coach, not worrying about what I think. After practice I ask her if she had fun, anything she wants to tell me, and that's it.

Like school, her behaviour and discipline there is their issue, unless they specifically call me to deal with an issue.

The other thing is I do think expecting perfect behaviour is too much. Children do make mistakes as they learn, and it's ok. I try more to help her after- what did you do, how do we try to put it right (apologising for example), and that we've learned how we can try to not do it again. But especially with type a's, it can be easy to think that mistakes aren't acceptable, so why bother trying? We all have moods and bad days sometimes, it's learning to deal with it rather than make it an issue.

Lastly, if it were me I would let her do another activity. Swimming is an important life skill, or ballet helps on a lot of levels. Take the focus off the gymnastics, and if she has a bad day she can go to her other activity with a clean slate. I don't think a half hour or an hour of a different activity is over scheduling? Someone posted on another thread a link to Canadian long term athlete development, which is interesting, and encourages multi activities and balance when they're young...
 
Faith makes a good point! It is hard for us, as parents, to step back sometimes and not get involved, but I think part of being a gymnastics coach is knowing, or learning, how to handle small kids. Let your daughter's coaches handle her attitude the way they feel is best for their personality. Different coaches (and teachers in general) have different styles. Some are strict disciplinarians, some are the type who show their disapproval quietly, some are jokey and goofy ... but every coach finds a style that works with their own personality. The other coaches will figure out a way to handle your daughter, and if they feel it isn't working they can always talk to you about different strategies.

I do think it is great that you let the coaches know that you'd back them up however they decide to deal with the attitude (within reason of course, I'm sure you wouldn't tolerate the coach berating or verbally abusing her or anything of that sort). As a teacher myself, it is always good to know that the parent has "our back" so to speak because there are so many parents who will flip out about their child being given a timeout or separated from the group for misbehavior. I think your daughter's coaches probably really appreciate that you are willing to work with them in regards to the attitude because, going off my experience as a teacher, parents like you are actually rare compared to the "how dare she do that to my child" type parent.

Finally, don't feel embarrassed! I have a son who is a massive handful. The tantrums, the attitude, the whining, it all drives me nuts and sometimes I really find myself worrying too much about what other people must be thinking, but the thing is, our kids are little still. We were all kids once and so people who get judgy about a kid who is having a bad day are the ones with issues, not you.
 
Your post is as ADORABLE as your baby girl. My G-DD was a challenge also. She started gymnastics a three. For two years she believed that boys didn't belong in 'her gym'. She would totally ignore any male in the room. In line she would cut in front of the boys. And has actually told them that they can't be a gymnasts and be in the lympics because they are not a girl. She made them get out of her way. The coaches let her get away with this behavior and we just shook our heads. When she had a male coach you would think she was 'that child' A total 'biach' at 4? She learned alot that season because she refused any male coaches help. LITTLE MISS INDEPENDENT. The coaches loved her. Loved her attitude too. She never cried when she fell and she always learned whatever the coach was teaching that day. At the end of practice, in the parents area outside the gym area, she became her loving self. She would play with the boys and give her male coaches 'hi-5s'. MISS POSITIVE PERSONALITY ONCE AGAIN. She has brothers that she treats the same way and a father who is totally wrapped around her little finger.
Baby girl never gives up and always gets her way, either by being a nice little lady or if that doesn't work she just overpowers the opposition with her take no prisoners attitude.
The point of this lllooonnnnggg reply is...
Just think of the future. You too have a child who will be a strong adult because of her Type A personality. You can bet, she will allow no one to hold her back.
In the 'real world' who is really at the top of the food chain? Not the sweet girls who follow whatever-rule is placed before them. It's the ones who make their own rules and have the personality to 'get' others to follow.
So...keep smiling, shake your head often, knowing the amazing future your daughter has before her.
 
One thing I've had with her is sometimes she is trying to do something and is getting upset and i tell her to just take a break and she won't, even though she's clearly miserable. I can't understand why she does this.

I am just like that and I am 32 ;). Still working on this attitude on some days. It *is* a personality thing and probably difficult to understand if you've got a very different personality. You want to get something really badly, you really want to make it work on your own, you want to show that you can do it, and it just won't work ('cause you are doing too much of a good thing, try to hard, instead of backing off for a minute or two or a day and calming down) - that's frustrating to you to say the least. taking corrections is really difficult in these situations. they sound not like "i want to help you: you are doing x wrong and should be doing y instead" - but like "you can't do it and i know it". gets especially hard when your girl is smart and already knows what the correction will be but just can't get it done (coordination, not having technique down, being too upset to work... whatever). that leads to the "attitudes".

i think you are doing a great job as a parent by helping her work on it!
 
Thanks, Jesse! I typed a long reply to Faith, but my internet ate it. :/ I'm glad to know that teachers/coaches see it as a good thing that I have their back, and I hope that's enough! I know at some point, she's just going to have to be accountable if she doesn't make the changes, but I want to support her in making good choices and guide her along the right path.

And you're right, I wouldn't tolerate abuse! Actually, I'm anti physical-discipline. I think Sweden has the right idea LOL. (though, to each their own! I obviously don't have all the answers). I wouldn't worry about correcting her form, but if I get a report or see that my kids aren't listening in school, I won't give rewards (I don't give consequences either, unless it's a major behavior, which it rarely if ever is--I leave that up to whoever is in charge at the time of the behavior)

I do think that to some extent parents have to teach their kids. For example, my son is in school but was struggling to learn. I didn't say, "That's the teachers problem." No. I sat with him and talked to him about applying himself and doing the classwork and behaving in class so he could learn. I talked to him about the benefits he would have if he did that, and the consequences that could happen (natural consequences, not mommy-given ones) if he didn't.

The same is how I view my daughters gymnastics, though I have to say skill-wise I just stay out of it. She knows she has my approval no matter how she does in gymnastics. but I do expect good behavior. I'm not going to pay for her to go be mean to people for fun! And I guess that's the only area where I differ from Faith's views, though I LOVED her second paragraph, which is what we do. Talk about it afterward and encourage making things right.

I know my daughter won't get it right 100% of the time. Even adults don't. It's part of growing up. And I always tell her she can try being nicer the next time. but at the same time, I want to see her IMPROVE or at least not get worse! So I can't see watching her misbehave and then taking her home ad giving her a cake and saying "You were awesome today!" LOL In other words, I'm not punishing her behavior in class. I'm just supporting the coaches consequences and being sure I don't REWARD bad behavior by giving praise 10 minutes after she was nasty with someone. I will, however, tell her what I do like, too. Like the other day I told her that I think she did a great job listening the first half of class and that next time I hope she will show the other coach what a good listener she can be.

you won't be surprised to learn we do a lot of talking in this house o_O
 
Wow. That's super encouraging, kecks! Thank you! I think it's good for kids to learn balance. Really, I am SO unlike her I guess sometimes I need to look at the positives, too. My daughter and I have a really amazing relationship despite our differences, and sometimes it's a conscious effort for me to put the mommy hat on when needed because her and I are like best friends. (My best friend is a 5 yo LOL) And maybe she gets being determined from me but being strong-willed from her dad...making for quite a mix! I appreciate your words because they remind me that while I teach her to be a kinder person, I also need to make sure I keep in tact the good part of her personality, which is being determined and not letting anyone hold her back. I appreciate your insights :)
 
Thanks, Faith. Well, I'm definitely not talking about coaching related things with her. That's not my job ;) But I've lived in FL and NJ, and in both of those places, BEHAVIOR is usually put on the parent, even if the parent isn't there. There is the consequence of where you are, but if there is a bad report, the parent usually deals with it at home, too. The school system seems to think I don't deal with it enough at home, sadly (because I live in an area that is pro physical-discipline, and I refuse to ever hit my kids. to each their own; this is my choice.) but I do usually take the approach of talking to my kids about their behavior, be it at home or school. And I don't do rewards for poor behavior in those settings (though I don't do punishment, either--I leave that to the school, or in this case, coach). Maybe that wasn't clear by my posts...<br><br>I find your second paragraph more in line with what I think though. Trying to help after, which is what I do. Letting her know that her coach is trying to help her, that her behavior wasn't nice, and that things can be fixed (apology and change in behavior). My concern I guess was I don't want her to eventually get kicked off the team if the behavior keeps up. I know she will make mistakes along the way, but I want to also guide her toward improving, not staying the same/getting worse.<br><br>I will see also if we can afford a second activity/have the time for one (we have therapy for my oldest a few days a week for his autism). I usually let her choose, but then she always picks the same thing. And I don't want to take her out of what she loves, either. I do try to do a lot with her at home though. She has some ballet videos, and we do art, play games, music, dance around, etc. Some of the girls in her&nbsp;gymnastics&nbsp;class do multiple activities, and I guess where I live (when I look into it) everything is almost all around the same days/times, so they are taking them out of one class early to get to&nbsp;gymnastics&nbsp;on time and then leaving&nbsp;gymnastics&nbsp;early to get to soccer on time, etc. I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable doing that. I've looked online at ballet (second highest on her&nbsp;interest-scale) but it's all the same days and times. Then I looked at Karate, and it was the same thing again. I guess they think 5 year olds like tuesday and thursdays at 3-4pm LOL<br>


(woo hoo! found the post! lol)
 
I agree with continuing the discipline at home. But I don't watch practices, so I have no idea how her behaviour is in there. I trust the coaches to come to me if they have an issue, and I will follow through at home. But not watching makes her responsible for her behaviour, and takes the pressure off me! Plus I always remember my parents watching me practice and I hated it, it wasn't fun if I was worrying whether my behaviour was acceptable and had half an eye on the gallery.

Totally with you on the physical thing. Fortunately here, while its not illegal, it's very much disapproved of.
 
I agree with continuing the discipline at home. But I don't watch practices, so I have no idea how her behaviour is in there. I trust the coaches to come to me if they have an issue, and I will follow through at home. But not watching makes her responsible for her behaviour, and takes the pressure off me! Plus I always remember my parents watching me practice and I hated it, it wasn't fun if I was worrying whether my behaviour was acceptable and had half an eye on the gallery.

Totally with you on the physical thing. Fortunately here, while its not illegal, it's very much disapproved of.

Ah, see, I guess it depends on the kid. As a kid, I don't think I noticed whether my mom watched or not. My daughter, however, likes me watching. Maybe because I give her thumbs up a lot LOL but I've been trying to wean having me watch her as she will eventually reach that age where I'm just dropping her off for class! (They don't do that with the youngins at her gym, unless it's "parents night out" and she is just now old enough for that) or the camps. So what I've done is started watching half classes at first, and from there started watching every-other half class. I bring my kindle and bury myself in my books :) She does fine most of the time. At first, she did come out of class a few times more often than usual, but as the weeks go on she is doing that less, so I think the slow and steady approach seems to be working with her.

All my kids are so different. I even think to when each of them moved to sleeping on their own. (We took the no-tears approach). My oldest had a "same difference" attitude about it. we got him a "big boy" bed, and he started sleeping in it, and that was that. With our daughter, it was a 3 month process. Sleeping with her in her bed. Then leaving her bed after she fell asleep. Then leaving her bed when she was half asleep (sometimes we had to come back a few times). Then she would go to bed on her own, but cry for me a few hours later. But eventually, she just went to bed and that was that, and she's probably even better about bedtime as a toddler than the boys now! Our youngest was somewhere in between. Not as easy as our oldest, but almost. We put him to bed half asleep for a month and then after that, he just went on his own, no problems.

I know all my kids are different. They all need to become independent, but they will all learn how to do this in a different way. Some will jump right in, some will (like my daughter) test the waters. I know some people are all for the sink or swim approach, but I guess parenting is a personal thing in that we get to do what we think will ultimately be best for our children. And for my daughter, I don't think it's a bad thing that when she is unsure she turns to people she can trust for help. A person can still be independent and ask for help when they need it. (Though not everyone knows this/feels this way, it's still my belief).

I do think that within a few months, she'll be fine. There was a time where she wouldn't even walk into class without me (when she was in the toddler class) and we had to work away from that, too. Now she is the first in line to go into class and doesn't even need me to walk her to the gate. The coaches, in this regard, all think she's doing great and has come a long way in a short amount of time, and I agree. I don't think any of us expected her to go from that girl who wouldn't stay in class without her mom, to the girl who's on the verge of not caring if I'm right there to watch.

The real test will be spring camp. We've talked to her coaches and decided to let her try it. She says she understands that I won't be there, but I'm curious how she will react. Though, she's been doing well lately with me watching her classes less and less, and even stepping outside to make long phone calls, so something tells me she will do just fine. I will say with my daughter though that if you rush her toward independence, she shuts down and it ends up being a huge set back. She's five, so I'm not expecting her to be 100% independent right now. I don't mind her taking one small step at a time in that direction, especially as that seems to be what works best for her.

I wish that I lived where you live, Faith. Here, people beat kids in parking lots...kids that they aren't even legal guardians for. It's disheartening. While I do think most things fall into the realm of parenting decisions, I personally haven't been able to reconcile that belief with the belief that it's within our rights to physically and intentionally hurt another human being who does not want us to do that. But where I live, it's not my business, so all I can do is remember that even though I don't agree with them, they usually don't agree with me, either. I have to stay focused on my own kids.
 
"I wish that I lived where you live, Faith. Here, people beat kids in parking lots...kids that they aren't even legal guardians for."

i guess it's a good thing that i don't live where you do. i'd find myself in jail most of the time...:)
 
LOL dunno :p

Actually, the first time I witnessed that I yelled at the person to stop and reported it to the school (which is how I found out the people weren't actually the parents!) And they said I should speak up at a PTA meeting. Well, in the end, I ending up PTA president, which really just meant raising money by selling t-shirts so the teachers could have appreciation parties. Not that I'm against that sort of thing, but it really wasn't why I'd gotten involved. In the end, I'd realized it was just too much for me with everything else going on with my kids. I'll leave that to some supermom out there--which I am not!

Anyway, glad to hear there's others out there who would stand up to such a thing. Though the irony is really that those who fight back are the ones who would go to jail. For example, legally, if a kid hits their parents, the parents can call the cops and the child could be placed in a juvenile detention center. But if a parent hits their kids, it's child-rearing. There's probably no perfect answer, but as it stands, I personally have a hard time wrapping my head around these things. OF course, when it gets to the point of someone hitting *someone else's* kid, you'd THINK anyone would see that as crossing a line. But in many states down here, it's acceptable (depending on who that someone else is). I live in a state that still allows corporal punishment in schools, though thankfully it's a non-issue in my county.

I'm all for the "adult in charge" issuing a consequence, but there should be some boundaries where that is concerned.
 
oh i was just as bad if not worse! i was bad in school, i was very talkative and crazy and my attitude was horrendous. unfortunately it carried on into gymnastics. i used to curse at my coaches talk back but after about 500 or so pushups and pulls up i learned. i also used to get detention at school and my mom would text my coaches and i would get punished at practice!
i regret talking to my coaches like that because in a way they have become like my second set of parents, so it upsets me to know that i was once like that. it really is a personality thing, my personality is very sarcastic. oh yes my mother just loves it.

im sure your daughter will grow out of it, its a learning process just like everything else. she will understand one day im sure of it.

my coaches and i joke about how bad i used to be but they are proud of me and im sure your coaches are proud of your daughter! dont stress it!
 
Sounds like you actually have things under control. It takes alot of time to change a behavior in a 5yo so keep doing what your doing. At the gym it sounds like the coaches have it handled and your DD learning to adjust to different coaches and behave is her issue with the coaches.

The only thing I would suggest is to find a "reward" for good behavior that doesn't involve food. Something like a star chart where at the end of the week if she has X amount of stars she gets something like a day fun like a movie or bowling. Bad behavior with YOU not the coaches can have stars removed. Let the coaches deal with the discipline in the class. Hard to do I know, especially when you want her to act a certain way but it will give the coaches more athority and in the end she will learn to follow their rules.

Juice even 100% fruit juice has so much sugars in them (natural sugars are still sugar) and you said she has some issues with sugar.

It sounds like you know what the trigers are so make plans to avoid those triggers if you can. Otherwise I think you really do have a good plan in place and the coaches are working with you.
 
oh i was just as bad if not worse! i was bad in school, i was very talkative and crazy and my attitude was horrendous. unfortunately it carried on into gymnastics. i used to curse at my coaches talk back but after about 500 or so pushups and pulls up i learned. i also used to get detention at school and my mom would text my coaches and i would get punished at practice!
i regret talking to my coaches like that because in a way they have become like my second set of parents, so it upsets me to know that i was once like that. it really is a personality thing, my personality is very sarcastic. oh yes my mother just loves it.

im sure your daughter will grow out of it, its a learning process just like everything else. she will understand one day im sure of it.

my coaches and i joke about how bad i used to be but they are proud of me and im sure your coaches are proud of your daughter! dont stress it!

It's great to hear it from the POV of someone who's been there and done that! I think it's great your coaches stuck with you through it and it's nice to hear everyone working as a team (you, your coaches, your parents, etc). I think it's really great when everyone's on the same page. And hey, all that attitude (and resulting push ups) must have made you a stronger gymnast :p
 
Sounds like you actually have things under control. It takes alot of time to change a behavior in a 5yo so keep doing what your doing. At the gym it sounds like the coaches have it handled and your DD learning to adjust to different coaches and behave is her issue with the coaches.

The only thing I would suggest is to find a "reward" for good behavior that doesn't involve food. Something like a star chart where at the end of the week if she has X amount of stars she gets something like a day fun like a movie or bowling. Bad behavior with YOU not the coaches can have stars removed. Let the coaches deal with the discipline in the class. Hard to do I know, especially when you want her to act a certain way but it will give the coaches more athority and in the end she will learn to follow their rules.

Juice even 100% fruit juice has so much sugars in them (natural sugars are still sugar) and you said she has some issues with sugar.

It sounds like you know what the trigers are so make plans to avoid those triggers if you can. Otherwise I think you really do have a good plan in place and the coaches are working with you.

*lightbulb*
We WERE doing star charts before the holidays (it was something new) and we didn't over the holidays and I totally forgot and never went back to it! I'm so glad you said something. I will do that. Thanks so much for the feedback. Yes, we do try to limit sugars/juices. We aren't exactly health nuts, but I do notice a huge correspondence between healthier eating and better behavior, and I know *I* feel better when I eat healthy, so we do try to lean that way as much as we can.

As an update, she's already back to where she was before vacation. She's working with 6 different coaches now (instead of just the usual 2) because of their being a coach out and them trying to cover the other coach's classes. Anyway, she's doing great with all of them. Not only has she dropped her attitude on form correction, she's really devoting herself even when the coaches aren't looking toward achieving the best form possible.

Also, I see her trust in her coaches and her confidence in herself building. For example, today they were doing bars. She's had her pullover for a while and can do a back hip circle with a spot that she doesn't really need skill-wise but desperately needed in terms of comfort. Today, her coach told her to go for it.

She bailed on the first one, but he told her she could do this and had her try again. She got it. Her first ever back hip circle by herself. She was thrilled! And I was very excited for her because it showed her confidence building! (And it's not JUST in the gymnastics, either. Tuesday she started asking girls in the class to be her friend and started socializing more with the other girls. Prior to now, she's been very shy in that regard). So it's really nice to just see her have that confidence in herself all around...and a lot of it is starting at the gym.

I really have to say that I just ADORE all the coaches at her gym. They are AMAZING. They always encourage Emma and make sure that class is both fun and challenging for her. This has been a good experience for us all around, even if something I have to die of embarrassment along the way.
 
Just wondering, and I only skimmed the thread, is she your oldest or only? I was much the same with my oldest (now 19), and now 3 kids later (youngest 7) I am much less stressed about these things. Yes, I absolutely require my children to be respectful. What I have learned is they all come with different personalities and levels of tolerance, even when raised by the same parents in the same home. I had to mess up a kid or two, lol, before I figured out sometimes you just don't sweat the small stuff. Just wait til the hormones kick in ;).
 
She's my second child of three. My oldest has Autism and my youngest hasn't been diagnosed yet, but there's something going on with him. She's surrounded by behavioral issues, so I do take that into account. Admittedly, it's hard not to sweat the small stuff when there are so many people in your life (school-personal, etc) that think you're not sweating ANY stuff and are just a horrible parent who never disciplines your kid. Because of my oldest's behavior, we've had the cops and child services called on us several times (because of how loud he screams if you give him a time out). I have the school treating me like I allow him to misbehave and I've had medical professionals tell me to just do whatever it takes to calm him down (which would mean just giving him what he wants--which other medical professionals would agree is a horrible idea, and I don't do that). So while I may seem a little tense about behavior (and admittedly, I am a little bit) most people who know my family think I'm ENTIRELY too laid back.

I do realize that all my kids are different and respond better to different approaches, and so I react accordingly. My oldest, for example, needs soothing repetitive sensory input before he can respond to a demand or a correction. Emma, on the other hand, responds best to a demand if you are light-hearted/silly about it and responds best to a correction if you're firm and don't feed into her pouting.

Respect is pretty much our main rule in the house anyway. (Respect yourself, respect others, respect your environment, etc).

She does seem to be doing better again. I guess she just needed to get back into the flow and acclimate to the new coaches. The coaches are also very understanding of our home situation. They know that her older brother had autism and that effects the entire family. The school board, on the other hand, would just see my daughter's attitude as evidence that I suck as a parent. I wish I was being dramatic, but this is genuinely the case. I know this after fighting for two years to get my son the services he needs.Services they didn't want to give me because they thought my parenting (being too relaxed) was the cause of my autistic son's behavioral problems. So I do see the structured gymnastics setting as an opportunity for Emma to learn to control her attitude in a structured setting.

Like you, I absolutely require my children to be respectful. And that's all I'm really talking about her. I'm not giving time outs for spilled milk :p
 
I'm so sorry your family has put through the wringer with the school system, my parents had similar experiences while I was growing up. They were both public school teachers and have been well versed in the good and bad of the public school system from experiences as teachers and parents. When you're dealing with a child with physical, mental, academic, behavioral, or any other factor apparent in the school setting it can take a lot of "bugging" people, persistence, and just plain luck to get situations on the road the improvement. I just hope for your families sake that your children are at the very least able to be placed in classrooms with devoted, compassionate teachers who understand the battle you are facing and are willing to help you and your children work through them. I know plenty of exceptional parents who experience struggles with their children (those that are clinically fine and those with various difficulties), so don't be too hard on yourself. It sounds like you have a great head on your shoulders, are well informed, and are doing all of the right things for all of your children.
 

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