WAG Back injuries from walkovers?

[lisiflex]

I have a very flexible back and shoulders. I can put my head between my feet and I have a needle stretch.

I was wondering how bad walkovers are for your back?

May they cause injuries?
Can you prevent them?

Are front walkovers worse than back walkovers?

Can simple stretching the back and shoulders cause injuries?

After the holidays, I sometimes feel light discomfort in my lower back when stretching but once I am warmed up, it's fine!

When I started front walkovers, they were hard, but now they are super easy. I feel a very little discomfort in my lower back when I stand up at the end of a front walkover, but nothing bad! Front limbers are easy too!


Hope someone has tipps!

 

[happychaos]

I am also super curious about this, as DD has been doing many BWO series on beam over and over......and over. I wonder if there is point of diminishing return, and what that point may be.

 

[Gymsanity]

Front and back can be VERY harmful if done improperly. I've seen too many girls that say they are flexible, only to see a huge 'kink' in their lower backs, or at least the majority of bending down there. I won't let even my best girls do bridges on the floor for warm ups. Put your feet on an 8" mat, keep you lower and middle back flat as possible and stretch your upper back and shoulders. When you do your back walk over feel that the majority of bend comes from the upper back and shoulders at first, once you are vertical your back should be flat and you should be pushing up tall, and from there you continue to have a flat back as you 'T' up. Remember there are good types of flexibility and bad types.
Just as a warning, yesterday I had a 14 year old girl come into my gym from a cheer gym wanting to know if I could help her with her tumbling since she had been in chronic pain at her other gym. Her mom had her MRI on her phone (no, I don't know how she got it there) and showed it to me. Yikes! She had a lower disc that was flatter than a pancake stepped on by an elephant!! Told mom 'sorry, no chance. You need a new sport for your daughter.' Good luck.

 

[lisiflex]

Thank you, I don't want to injure myself!!!!

So, if i just stretch my upper back and shoulders with feet on the mat, I couldn't hurt myself severly, right?

What about front limbers? Aren't they hell for the back? They don't hurt me, but sometimes it's hard to get up and then I really get up just out of my flexibility!

Is there a technique that is safe for walkovers?

What about back handsprings and needles? Are they bad?

I am very very flexible overall, and I want to have a really good needle. So what about "static" back stretching, like contorsionists do? (see the picture)

So, let's say I just stretch my back like the girl in the pic 4-5 times a week as well as my shoulders in training, but do walkovers just every now and theen to not "forget" how they work and if I need in a competition I can do them - is this an option?

 

[fliptwisttwirl]

Last year I was diagnosed with a bulging disk in my lower back after multiple scans, tests, MRI, etc. My coaches took out back/front walkovers and this year I haven't had a ounce of pain. Wish we would have tried taking them out sooner!

 

[Kiwi]

My DD has the opposite problem, she is naturally not flexible. Walkovers are hard for her. She has a 'hinge' in her mid-back that can get sore if she does too many walkovers. If she limits her number of repetitions she is okay. Bridges with raised feet are great because they take the stretch into the shoulders instead of the lower back.

 

[txgymfan]

Be very very careful with back issues. We have had many CB parents and gymnasts that have had back issues that started as minor and got very scary. So please if you have any concern please call a physician.

 

[iwannacoach]

I was wondering how bad walkovers are for your back?
When done wrong, and quite often are, they are bad for your back and make gymnastics go bye bye forever. The only time I've had kids work them is when they get put into a compulsory routine. They are not even on my radar for skill progression.

May they cause injuries?
They may and they do. Look at it this way. There are good exercises and motions, and then there are ones that require caution and care, finally there are some that are just plain begging for trouble. I'd put back and front walkovers somewhere between the second and third description. How do you separate an injury from the regular sore and tired muscles often suffered by gymnasts. If it hurts while you're moving through a skill, and has a twinge moment during that skill, and then the mild pain stops...... it's a very minor injury that may grow to a big one after months or years of repeated movements.

Can you prevent them?
If your training setting leaves you without a person who can answer that question, and you come here to ask it. Well, you kinda need an experienced coach who can keep you out of skills or techniques that lead to over use and acute injuries.

Simple stretching from your mid back up to your shoulders is fine as long as you do it only to learn a shape and be comfortable enough to use that shape during a skill, like a back handspring. I hope anyone stretching their upper back will increase their flexibility by increasing the times they stretch, but reduce the pressure they use.

When I started front walkovers, they were hard, but now they are super easy. I feel a very little discomfort in my lower back when I stand up at the end of a front walkover, but nothing bad! Front limbers are easy too!
This is the last question in your post, and I started my response before getting as far as this mention of little discomfort. The best advice I can offer is to spend very little time on this type of skill, and only do a few of them on those occasions. The little discomfort you mentioned is just what I was talking about in the may they cause injuries answer.

 

[bogwoppit]

I would honestly say that BWO's, using lower back flexibility, were exactly what caused my oldest stress fractures. Too many, too often. Surgery followed and I would say she is now in he 8th year of chronic back pain. BWO's are not to be trifled with.

 

[lisiflex]

I was wondering how bad walkovers are for your back?
When done wrong, and quite often are, they are bad for your back and make gymnastics go bye bye forever. The only time I've had kids work them is when they get put into a compulsory routine. They are not even on my radar for skill progression.

May they cause injuries?
They may and they do. Look at it this way. There are good exercises and motions, and then there are ones that require caution and care, finally there are some that are just plain begging for trouble. I'd put back and front walkovers somewhere between the second and third description. How do you separate an injury from the regular sore and tired muscles often suffered by gymnasts. If it hurts while you're moving through a skill, and has a twinge moment during that skill, and then the mild pain stops...... it's a very minor injury that may grow to a big one after months or years of repeated movements.

Can you prevent them?
If your training setting leaves you without a person who can answer that question, and you come here to ask it. Well, you kinda need an experienced coach who can keep you out of skills or techniques that lead to over use and acute injuries.

Simple stretching from your mid back up to your shoulders is fine as long as you do it only to learn a shape and be comfortable enough to use that shape during a skill, like a back handspring. I hope anyone stretching their upper back will increase their flexibility by increasing the times they stretch, but reduce the pressure they use.

When I started front walkovers, they were hard, but now they are super easy. I feel a very little discomfort in my lower back when I stand up at the end of a front walkover, but nothing bad! Front limbers are easy too!
This is the last question in your post, and I started my response before getting as far as this mention of little discomfort. The best advice I can offer is to spend very little time on this type of skill, and only do a few of them on those occasions. The little discomfort you mentioned is just what I was talking about in the may they cause injuries answer.

Thanks for your great answer!

Ok, I have always been quite flexible. I am just doing gymnastics for fun and flexibility has always been one of my talents. My coach says it's not bad for me when I do walkovers, but I shouldn't do them too often, but another coach in open gym told me, I should stop cuz it will hurt my back some day.

So, I will stretch my back very carfefully every training. I will do bridges with straight legs and feet together (maybe on an elevated surface!) and focus on shoulder and upper back flexibility (pushing my shoulders over my hands!)
I will do one or two walkovers every now and then, maybe once or twice a month to not lose the feeling of the skill.

Hope that helps and keeps me in gymnastics for some more years!

Thanks!

 

[gracyomalley]

Dd had similar pain with BWO as a level 6. She moved up to Level 7 and DID NOT do BWO or similar stretching for months, using BHS-BHS for series, etc....with rest and increased core strength and better technique, she can now do them again (as the fear fairies visited and her BHS series turned into a crazy BHS-BLO with minimal hope of landing....), however, I and her coaches are watching closely. I know enough as a pediatrician that I didn't want and xray/MRI when she was hurting...and it was because she was bending from her lower back....good coaches knew what to do!

 

[lisiflex]

Thanks for your reply. The problem is, our "coach" is basically a sports teacher. I am not in a professional team or something, we are just a bunch of girls tumbling for fun. However, I take it the mosts serious and I am the one with the most skills, strength and flexibility and also the only one doing walkovers :/

So, how are you doing a walkover "right"???

Can there already be injuries if I never felt any pain?