Parents Balancing fun with advancement

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Judybird

Proud Parent
I am wondering what some of the rest of you parents think about "fun" in a gymnastics context. I have a soon to be 8 year old L3 DD. Although she practices hard for 12 hours a week in addition to being in 2nd grade at a public school, I believe she is still having fun. I also believe that she is not on an elite path by virtue of the choices we (myself and DD) are making together. She has never had a private and isn't in a gym/homeschool program. Often on this board we talk about letting the girls have "fun" at this stage of their gymnastics. Are the same girls my DD's age who are homeschooled, training 20+ hours a week, doing TOPs, and having every waking minute be about higher level gymnastics having fun? How does the parent of such a child know this would be fun for them before embarking on these efforts? I am currently considering making some life changes that would enable my DD to train more hours and become a better gymnast. Our goal would still be fun and possibly NCAA down the road, not elite. But how do I know that becoming more serious won't take the "fun" out of it for her??
 
Well, sometimes you don't know until you try. Some kids might think they want more, but once it happens, they find it to be too much. And I think increased training hours and intensity might take away some of what your dd might see as traditional fun in gymnastics.

I do think there are some things that would indicate that increasing hours/intensity won't take the "fun" out of it for your dd. And you will also need to remember that "fun" is very different for different kids. Does she want more? Does she do a lot of stretching and conditioning at home on her own, unprompted by anyone else? When she is at gym, is she focused on training more than the moments in between where they laugh and goof around a bit?

Speaking for my own daughter, her fun comes in different forms as well. She is motivated by obtaining and perfecting new skills. For her the process isn't traditional fun, but rewarding in other ways. She loves to show off her muscles, she is even beginning to find happiness in her very slight increases in her flexibility. She loves the hard work, for her that is the fun.

The "traditional" fun comes much less frequently, but definitely still is there. Maybe once every week or so, if the girls all have a great day, they will end training with a game of Camouflage, or Pit Foam baseball with noodles.

The group of girls makes a difference too. They still have a chance to talk and laugh between stations or events, during break and on the bus from school to gym. They also hang out outside of gym, and message each other, etc.

Sorry if this went all over the place, but I added things here and there as I was typing. I think my main point is that "fun" is a perception that your dd has, and different aspects of gym will be fun in different ways for each child.
 
The first question would be what does your daughter want? As the mom to two gymnasts I know that my girls have very different desires when it comes to gymnastics. One is very focused on trying to qualify elite. She has no problem giving up normal schooling and time with friends to be in the gym. She's been like that since she started gymnastics. Her younger sister enjoys gymnastics but its much more social for her. She likes being in the gym but doesn't really care if she ever makes it to the higher optional levels and she's good at gymnastics! She's having fun being with her friends at the gym and will keep doing gymnastics as long as its fun. I would never go the same route with her that we're doing with her sister. I know that both of my girls are having "fun" but it's in very different ways.
 
I guess that was sort of what I was afraid of, that you won't know if it is right until you try. She does focus quite well at practice and does condition and stretch sometimes at home. The change I am considering is to begin homeschooling so she can pick up extra hours. She is asking for this. Plus, I know that if things didn't work out she could go back to public school. Her best friends are her gym friends so she wouldn't be missing out on a huge social aspect. I guess my biggest concern is whether a 7 year old can really participate in making a decision like this. And..... If a 7 year old can't be expected to participate in such a decision and it falls solely on me, how do I feel like I am not pushing? Another thing I worry about is whether it is better to get the extra hours in now as a 7/8 year old compulsory gymnast or wait for her to be a 9/10 year old optional gymnast? Again, I guess the real answer is: you won't know if it is right or wrong until you give it a try.
 
I didn't start the partial homeschooling with my oldest until 6th grade when she changed gyms and started L9. There was no need for her to be at the gym more than 12 hours prior to that. I know that a lot of gyms have the compulsory kids train more hours than that but her gym didn't and frankly, it didn't hurt her in the least. In fact, until she was a level 7 she only did 9 hours a week. I resisted pulling her out of elementary school for gymnastics because there is so much social learning that goes on that I didn't want her to miss. If we were to walk the homeschooling path, I wanted her to understand what she would be giving up. By the time we got to that point, she was able to participate in the discussion.

That being said, at the age of 6 this child told me that gymnastics was her passion. She has never wavered from that statement.

Is there a rush to make this decision? She's only 7 and a L3. Lots of things can happen before she gets to optionals, let alone starts considering college gymnastics. Next year she may want to do ice skating or soccer or dance or....
 
I honestly wouldn't even consider homeschooling a level 3 gymnast. And to be clear, the path to NCAA is pretty much the same path as to elite. From my limited knowledge, NCAA gymnasts are generally L10 gymnasts for at least two years, possibly longer, and there are many girls who have qualified elite that then go on to compete NCAA. So I wouldn't fool yourself into thinking "just" NCAA. It's highly competitive to get there. And there aren't nearly as many NCAA spots for gymnasts as there are say, for baseball or football or water polo.

So even if NCAA is the goal, unless you have an L3 gymnast that is being fast-tracked to optionals next year, I'd hold off on the homeschooling discussion until you're really in a situation to "need" it. Homeschooling for gymnasts to me seems to be more a function of the need for them to be in the gym more hours than they are in school. And at L3, you're not there.

I have a strong gymnast who did well in her L3 season, but she is one of those girls who has a lot of potential but gym is a very social thing for her. She's 8, and still trying to figure out what she wants from gymnastics. She says she wants NCAA, but I don't see the focus in her (yet) that I would want to see before I would even consider homeschool (which, honestly, I wouldn't, but that's another conversation).

Also, don't assume homeschool is your only option. Kyla Ross competed in the Olympics while attending traditional public school. It can be done. Gymnastics is only a short part of their lives, even if they go elite, school is where the rest of their life gets shaped.
 
For my Dd (IL 8) gym is the greatest fun she has- long hours, lots of travel and to my adult self- a lot of sacrifice!

She doesn't perceive the conditioning and flex sessions as hard- she has little jokes with her team mates and they are all on the same page.

At home her preferred method of travel is on her
hands and 'relaxes' in splits in front of the TV.

On Sunday she has to be constantly reminded she has to rest to allow her body to be a better gymnast...sigh...

We as parents work very hard to fit in other normal child life experiences because if left up to Dd she'd only ever pick gym because she is so passionate about it.

Do we offer other choices... Yep!! Does she consider them??...For about 5 seconds max while she formulates a tactful version of "thanks anyway Mum, but I hope it's ok that I still want to do gym."

Will Dd make elite? Who knows? Most probably not but that for her ( and us) is not what it's about, it's about supporting her passion.

So OP there's no golden rule to help you decide, but nothing ventured, nothing gained, it will become apparent as time goes on whether your Dd will thrive on partial home schooling, as she's asking for it, I'd let her try- because after several years she will either be right into it or if not you can always lower hours and revert back to public schooling.
 
My DD is an 8 year old L6. she has desperately wanted homeschool or partial homeschool for gym for two years. We have kept her in her current school because I really feel strongly that kids need to fully understand the ramifications of the choices they make. At 8, my daughter can't really "get" what not having her school outlet means. At my age (old!) I DO understand. :) We have decided to put off any more discussions until middle school. At that point she will be a level 9, and will (IMO) have a better idea of what this all really means. Until then I am just wanting her to love gym, love school and have a soft place to land away from the gym. :)
 
and have a soft place to land away from the gym. :)

THIS. Thank you for verbalizing what I couldn't really put my finger on. School for DD is a place where her friends (many of them also gymnasts in her gym) get to dress up on spirit days and do art projects and go to the library and just not have to have the same KIND of stress. For example, DD came home Wednesday all excited because at recess she learned how to make an origami balloon. It was the highlight of her day. They're CHILDREN.

I highly recommend the HBO documentary "Trophy Kids". HORRIBLE name - I think it elicits all sorts of negative responses (as it did with my wife) but watching it is eye opening. Kids in all sorts of sports whose careers are being driven by their parents. A 7 year old golf phenom, tennis playing brothers, basketball. I was honestly surprised there weren't any gymnasts in the bunch, or dancers. The common thread is that all of these kids were being robbed of functional relationships with their parents because the family's SOLE FOCUS was these kids sports. I think we have to be really really careful of removing kids from all other sources of interaction outside of the gym because what happens when at the end of the road they don't get that D1 NCAA scholarship or make elite? I work with a guy whose kid was a lacrosse phenom - and when the school of his choice didn't choose him back, he gave up the sport. What does this teach kids when the lessons are about the destination as opposed to the process?

I don't mean to drive the bus down a slightly different road, but I have to say I know people who are homeschooling young gymnasts who likely will not be elite and I worry that this hyper focus on their sport is going to bite them in the rear when it comes time to face that reality.
 
My DD is an 8 year old L6. she has desperately wanted homeschool or partial homeschool for gym for two years. We have kept her in her current school because I really feel strongly that kids need to fully understand the ramifications of the choices they make. At 8, my daughter can't really "get" what not having her school outlet means. At my age (old!) I DO understand. :) We have decided to put off any more discussions until middle school. At that point she will be a level 9, and will (IMO) have a better idea of what this all really means. Until then I am just wanting her to love gym, love school and have a soft place to land away from the gym. :)
We're in a similar spot. Mine just turned 8 last week and will hopefully be starting optionals in the fall. She has been begging me to homeschool since last summer. And same thing, I told her it wouldn't even be an option until at least middle school (which is 5th grade in our district so she'd hopefully be level 8). Every kid is different and every family is different! Good luck :)
 
I find it odd, not good or bad....... while many darling daughters are too young to comprehend the consequences of following their self proclaimed dreams, they seem also incapable of grasping the reality of setting aside their dream in favor of moderation.

Finish this how you will......
 
I find it odd, not good or bad....... while many darling daughters are too young to comprehend the consequences of following their self proclaimed dreams, they seem also incapable of grasping the reality of setting aside their dream in favor of moderation.

Finish this how you will......

This quote is spot on with why I started this post originally. I never mentioned homeschooling in my first post because that is not what I am nervous about. My real concern is that I have a girl who loves gym and is performing well in her meets and wants more. Therefore,I'm am willing to do what it takes to get her the additional training she is requesting. But I don't want her to get sooooo loaded up with training hours that it becomes drudgery. At the end of the day, we won't really know until we try. If we go the daytime gym route next year instead of the current nighttime gym and it doesn't work out, we can always revert back.

I love hearing everybody's feedback. It really helps to hear so many different perspectives.
 
My real concern is that I have a girl who loves gym and is performing well in her meets and wants more. Therefore,I'm am willing to do what it takes to get her the additional training she is requesting. But I don't want her to get sooooo loaded up with training hours that it becomes drudgery.

You are far better off leaving a child wanting MORE gym than the opposite. That's not to say your DD won't be perfectly happy with more training but you are wise to give it careful consideration. At eight, you don't want to suck the fun out of it while also increasing the risk of burnout and injury. Having said that, in DD's gym, the 8 yr olds typically do 16 hours and aren't home schooled. Perhaps that is an option to consider.
 
We started homeschooling this year, not for gymnastics, but for personal reasons. At the same time, our gym started a homeschool group. Dd started off 5 days with the homeschool group, but we have rearranged things a bit to find a balance that works. Dd is constantly asking for more hours/open gym, etc
Currently she goes mon-wed with homeschool group, then thurs/sat with her TOPS/comp2 group. That way she is with kids her own age and stage as well as having the benefit of being pushed with the big girls. Her coaches agreed that it's a good balance for her. She is 7 btw.

I was very worried about how many hours she was in the gym, she went from 16 (summer) to 20 (homeschool) then added TOPS. She takes a day off if she needs it from time to time but we kind of follow her lead.

The benefit of homeschooling is that we can let her sleep in when she needs it. Hope that helps give a little perspective :)
 
We have always homeschooled - NOT because of gym. I will say that I can't imagine my kids pursuing their sports AND music if they also were in brick and mortar school all day. Homeschooling is a huge responsibility, and although it can be a great education in far less hours than regular school, it takes motivation from parent and child - and it is NOT super easy to do homeschooling well and go back and forth between that and public schooling...I realize many school districts offer on line options and we have tried those at times - but the hours involved to really learn the material are not to be minimized.

What has worked for us is year round schooling, each child doing the level they best belong at (for instance my DD age 12 is doing some work at 7th grade level, some at 8th/9th...my DS who is dyslexic and technically 8th grade works from 10th grade in science to about 6th grade in writing....). All my kids test well each year, and will have no problem transitioning to college at this rate - in their chosen fields - with or without college gymnastics. (DS is looking at a music career - and at 14 I am considering letting him pursue music more seriously and back off on schooling to the basics for high school, which is the route most professional violinists take at this point - but we are both afraid to put so many eggs in one basket - and he may go up to L9/10 next year with gym so that's a big love of his too....) I never would have considered an academically less rigorous option at age 8 for any of the kids - so homeschooling for us has never been the "easier" choice - and believe me, with on-line school it can easily become that.)

I'd love a homeschool/day program for gym for 2 reasons only -

1. more personal attention - simply less kids....right now there are 25 optionals at DD gym and only 2 coaches that really know how to coach level 8+.....its not ideal - but it is what is available. Right now DD will go weeks without a new skill (which is all she's training for right now - not competing), then in one practice one of the 2 experienced coaches will have 15 minutes to attend to her - and voila - she's doing something new - if the only way to get that kind of coaching is day time - I'd consider it now (but again, she's 12 and L8ish).

2. More humane hours for the kids - I hate getting home at 8 or 830, trying to feed them well, etc. Sleep is hard to fit in properly and even with homeschooling, they are just more tired with pm workouts. Again, we school year round, work on weekends when needed, take time off during meet season, etc to accommodate but still....and my boys do 16 hours a week, my DD 20 - which is harder to do now than it was when she was 10 and pre-pubertal, by the way....they really need rest and sleep at her age.

More hours isn't always better - although there is a certain amount of time in gym that is necessary for strength and safety as a kid hits upper level skills. Some kids learn fast and some slow but at young ages, more hours won't always change that - unless it means "more attention" and "more teaching and training" from the coaches.

Lastly, I again emphasize that the decision to homeschool a kid at age 8 or so should be a decision to try the lifestyle because it may make your kid and family happier and better educated (which can include a chance to pursue a passion - be it sport or music, art, etc) overall.

An 8 year old who loves gym - well they are a dime a dozen. An 8 year old L3 with potential - also very common (no offence meant in any way). A kid who dreams of Olympics and wants to be in the gym more at this age/stage - well MOST OF THEM DO!!!! And the assumption that said kid will be a certain level in 2-4 years is good for future planning, but so much can and likely will change as the 8 year old becomes a 11-12 year old, one really can't say what will happen. DDs group of old L5s (who ranged from 7-9 year olds at that level, so even younger than your DD) now 4 years later include one L9, one L8, 3 L7s, and about 10 kids who have quit gym all together....and DD who after 2 very successful years of L7 took most of the fall off, and is training L8 but not competing due to fears, coaching and puberty....had I looked at her training trajectory as a 10 year old L7 I never would have seen the stall coming....but I now know its the more common pathway than that of her one friend who has continued to move quickly. Its not just burn out that slows them down, sometimes (often) its just the way it goes.

We love homeschooling - it has always included lots of library trips, field trips, friends outside of gym, etc for us - until the kids got to the age of winnowing that down themselves. We have time for playing outside still...and being a family because of homeschooling (granted, my kids put an additional 10 hours for the youngest and about 30 for the oldest into music on top of gym). During meet season my kids get sick far less often than their brick and mortar schooled peers, and are able to rest a bit more. I'm glad we rarely have to pick between homework or practice, esp. as the kids get up in grade levels. I'm not sure these advantages would translate to a gym program - as some actually do the schooling for you - which means the kid still has the stress of only learning during the traditional school year, and in my opinion may not leave enough time to really get a good education.

Do what feels like the right way to educate (including athletic education) your kid and what will make them the happiest/most successful adult in all things - if that includes taking a chance on gym while its her "thing" and you can make it fit in with a healthy lifestyle NOT just about gym - then go for it - she'll keep a perspective/other friends and interests if that is what you expect her to do and give her time for - again, a "trophy kid" is made by the parents - there are many kids being educated in non-traditional ways who still have very healthy social and home lives - its how the parents approach these opportunities that makes the difference.
 
We have always homeschooled - NOT because of gym. I will say that I can't imagine my kids pursuing their sports AND music if they also were in brick and mortar school all day. Homeschooling is a huge responsibility, and although it can be a great education in far less hours than regular school, it takes motivation from parent and child - and it is NOT super easy to do homeschooling well and go back and forth between that and public schooling...I realize many school districts offer on line options and we have tried those at times - but the hours involved to really learn the material are not to be minimized.

What has worked for us is year round schooling, each child doing the level they best belong at (for instance my DD age 12 is doing some work at 7th grade level, some at 8th/9th...my DS who is dyslexic and technically 8th grade works from 10th grade in science to about 6th grade in writing....). All my kids test well each year, and will have no problem transitioning to college at this rate - in their chosen fields - with or without college gymnastics. (DS is looking at a music career - and at 14 I am considering letting him pursue music more seriously and back off on schooling to the basics for high school, which is the route most professional violinists take at this point - but we are both afraid to put so many eggs in one basket - and he may go up to L9/10 next year with gym so that's a big love of his too....) I never would have considered an academically less rigorous option at age 8 for any of the kids - so homeschooling for us has never been the "easier" choice - and believe me, with on-line school it can easily become that.)

I'd love a homeschool/day program for gym for 2 reasons only -

1. more personal attention - simply less kids....right now there are 25 optionals at DD gym and only 2 coaches that really know how to coach level 8+.....its not ideal - but it is what is available. Right now DD will go weeks without a new skill (which is all she's training for right now - not competing), then in one practice one of the 2 experienced coaches will have 15 minutes to attend to her - and voila - she's doing something new - if the only way to get that kind of coaching is day time - I'd consider it now (but again, she's 12 and L8ish).

2. More humane hours for the kids - I hate getting home at 8 or 830, trying to feed them well, etc. Sleep is hard to fit in properly and even with homeschooling, they are just more tired with pm workouts. Again, we school year round, work on weekends when needed, take time off during meet season, etc to accommodate but still....and my boys do 16 hours a week, my DD 20 - which is harder to do now than it was when she was 10 and pre-pubertal, by the way....they really need rest and sleep at her age.

More hours isn't always better - although there is a certain amount of time in gym that is necessary for strength and safety as a kid hits upper level skills. Some kids learn fast and some slow but at young ages, more hours won't always change that - unless it means "more attention" and "more teaching and training" from the coaches.

Lastly, I again emphasize that the decision to homeschool a kid at age 8 or so should be a decision to try the lifestyle because it may make your kid and family happier and better educated (which can include a chance to pursue a passion - be it sport or music, art, etc) overall.

An 8 year old who loves gym - well they are a dime a dozen. An 8 year old L3 with potential - also very common (no offence meant in any way). A kid who dreams of Olympics and wants to be in the gym more at this age/stage - well MOST OF THEM DO!!!! And the assumption that said kid will be a certain level in 2-4 years is good for future planning, but so much can and likely will change as the 8 year old becomes a 11-12 year old, one really can't say what will happen. DDs group of old L5s (who ranged from 7-9 year olds at that level, so even younger than your DD) now 4 years later include one L9, one L8, 3 L7s, and about 10 kids who have quit gym all together....and DD who after 2 very successful years of L7 took most of the fall off, and is training L8 but not competing due to fears, coaching and puberty....had I looked at her training trajectory as a 10 year old L7 I never would have seen the stall coming....but I now know its the more common pathway than that of her one friend who has continued to move quickly. Its not just burn out that slows them down, sometimes (often) its just the way it goes.

We love homeschooling - it has always included lots of library trips, field trips, friends outside of gym, etc for us - until the kids got to the age of winnowing that down themselves. We have time for playing outside still...and being a family because of homeschooling (granted, my kids put an additional 10 hours for the youngest and about 30 for the oldest into music on top of gym). During meet season my kids get sick far less often than their brick and mortar schooled peers, and are able to rest a bit more. I'm glad we rarely have to pick between homework or practice, esp. as the kids get up in grade levels. I'm not sure these advantages would translate to a gym program - as some actually do the schooling for you - which means the kid still has the stress of only learning during the traditional school year, and in my opinion may not leave enough time to really get a good education.

Do what feels like the right way to educate (including athletic education) your kid and what will make them the happiest/most successful adult in all things - if that includes taking a chance on gym while its her "thing" and you can make it fit in with a healthy lifestyle NOT just about gym - then go for it - she'll keep a perspective/other friends and interests if that is what you expect her to do and give her time for - again, a "trophy kid" is made by the parents - there are many kids being educated in non-traditional ways who still have very healthy social and home lives - its how the parents approach these opportunities that makes the difference.
Spoken like a pro! We homeaxhool because it works for our family. We are all more relaxed and less frazzled. That...to me, is priceless!
 
Was she invited to join a specific program or are you looking into one?

Honestly, I would not homeschool my DD for gymnastics reasons at this point. I also have a 7yo, 2nd grader who loves gymnastics. She goes even fewer hours than your DD and is training TOPs + L5 (likely competing L7 next Jan). If/when we get to the point where DD is struggling with juggling school and gymnastics, we will have a conversation. However, I do not see this happening before middle school, and she is in an accelerated academic program at school. Actually, she did bring up homeschooling because a teammate of hers is homeschooled (not for gymnastics). After a few months she decided that she really didn't want to homeschool.
I know I have a concern about DD burning out of gymnastics since she's been in it her whole life. I agree with the poster who said that it's better to have them wanting more.

Good luck!
 

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