WAG BWO on beam hands

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putri

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Sep 1, 2011
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Hi! Need some suggestions on this...

As long as dd is going forward, her hands placement on beam is fine. So she can tic-toc for example with no problem. But going backwards, her hands would go over each other or one is in front of the other. So then she'll struggle to go over and even when she does, she'd be completely off the beam. Now and then everything aligns and she's fine.

She asked her coach and she said dd needs to be straight with arms. I'm no pro but I really think her arms are straight up and everything tight.

When her arms are up, her pointing fingers and thumbs are together creating a teardrop shape. She said some of her friends do an open rectangle but she said that doesn't help her.

Any other thing she can try?Thanks!!
 

iwannacoach

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Considering she's able to do good tic-toks, it really It come down to belief and will.......

She'll change to the right hand placement when believes that will help her do them with greater factors of survival and success. Some kids need longer to wrap their minds around going backward to their hands, so give her time to make the change while assuring her the change will come. Tell her to believe in her coach, herself, and the rest of the team. If the coach can teach it and the majority of the team can do it, then she will learn it too.
 

putri

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You think it's just belief and will? I mean it's possible but would think it's something technical :)
 

coachmolly

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I would say tick-tocks on beam are much harder for most kids- you need to have nearly perfect alignment whereas on a bwo you can correct if you're slightly off. So if she can do the tick-tock, she absolutely has the skills to do the bwo. It's hard to tell without seeing it, but I'm guessing she's psyching herself out as she goes backwards and changes something that throws her off.
I'm having a hard time picturing how the tear drop shaped hands would land on the beam. It doesn't seem like a very secure hand placement, but I could be envisioning it wrong. One of the most helpful hints I give my girls is to stretch tall at the beginning and the whole way through the skill, keeping their belly button over the beam- it generally helps to keep them from "slouching" into it which can cause them to come out of line or do something funky with their hands.
 

iwannacoach

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It's like this.....

Being able to do a tic-tok tells me she has more than enough of either flexibility or determination and guts, if not all of the above, to progress to a back walkover.

I assume she's progressed up to the point of working the skill on beam, and therefore has done hundreds of them quite nicely on the floor line, padded floor beam, or bare floor beam. If that's the case then it's reasonable to figure she has no problem other than place her hands in the open rectangle position her team mates are having success with..... or whatever position her coaches suggest.

Just a quick detour......

Her coach has told her told "be straight with her arms" because she isn't straight with her arms and needs to change that. If I were given that correction....... well maybe I'll think my arms aren't straight at the elbows or extended through my shoulders, or I may understand that the correction means I'm advancing one arm backward before, or faster, than the other. My bet's on the one arm advancing faster or before, and that leaves her with little option for her hand placement.

So with the detoured thoughts melded with the earlier paragraph......

She's may be resisting the idea of going straight backward, and leading with one arm, intended or not, is her path around that resistance. You gotta admit that it would take an awful lot to convince yourself to do this, and your daughter may be right there with you... and me. In that case the successful ones happen when she's at the extreme edge of her mental model.... kinda like she accidently doesn't get it wrong enough to miss and go off the beam. Probably she'll get enough of them accidentally right that she'll begin to get them right on purpose.

The thing is, it's really not that hard to form the proper hand position..... I can do that with my eyes closed while counting backward from 100 by 3's, but that goes out the window when I have to do it while arching and falling backward to an upside down position.

So.......

Your daughter's difficulty could be technical in the sense she isn't understanding what the coach is telling her, but thinks she does, and does what she thinks is the correct thing every time.

Or.....

She's suffering from "You want me to do what!!" in the same way as many kids. Sometimes they just need more time to process the skill and get to the point of "I can do this."

So you have two genuine examples that happen in real life gymnastics that fit with what you've written. Each example has multiple variations and mutations, but these two examples are at the center of each.

Either that, or it's a vestibular issue, but nothing you've written points to that.
 

iwannacoach

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I'm having a hard time picturing how the tear drop shaped hands would land on the beam. It doesn't seem like a very secure hand placement, but I could be envisioning it wrong.

I'm thinking the same thing.
 

gymdog

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It really shouldn't matter where her hands are when they start. Obviously when you do say a BHS on beam, you won't have your hands together the entire time from takeoff to hand contact on the beam. If her arms are narrow (close to her ears) then that's pretty much what matters.

I recommend she practice split handstand with her hands in the correct position to hold long (longer than a tick tock) to master holding it for 5-10 seconds consistently.

The next step, hold bridge with feet together correct hands for 5-10 seconds

Next step bridge with one foot up hold for 5-10 seconds.

Next step start like BWO and go back to one foot bridge and freeze 5 seconds, personally I do not have kids do this on a beam, just on mats and a padded beam.

Then she should start from the line on the floor and move up with consistent hand placement at each step.
 
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putri

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Sep 1, 2011
87
Thank you all for the comments!! Sorry for the hand shape confusion. I am attaching a photo here
ImageUploadedByChalkBucket1385286990.626980.jpg
. Guess it's a triangle ;)

And her hands when she gets on beam.
ImageUploadedByChalkBucket1385287039.113555.jpg
ImageUploadedByChalkBucket1385287058.360400.jpg


I'll try the drills on her. If it doesn't work, I shall speak to coach more about this.
 

putri

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Sep 1, 2011
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Dd said when going forward she can see where her hands need to be. So they're placed right. But not backwards.
 

gymdog

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First picture, eh, that's acceptable but may need some compensation. Not sure how the second picture is happening, that's fairly odd looking to me. How is her shoulder flexibility? Hip flexor?
 

iwannacoach

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imageuploadedbychalkbucket1385286990-626980-jpg.4160


This is a good and workable starting point, but this finger position is going reduce her available shoulder flexibility. It would be easier for her to reach back and to feel slight twisting and turning as she goes back ward if her index fingers were apart and pointing toward the ceiling. My personal ideal would be opposing 'L' shapes with a slight gap between her thumbs. It's always worked for my kids.
 

tumbling1gymnast

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Jan 11, 2013
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Australia.
I've always interlocked my thumbs together when my arms are by my ears ready for the bwo. When I lean back and can see the beam, I seperate them and place my hands on the beam like I would for a handstand. It keeps me in line and because my thumbs are interlocked most of the time I'm always confident my hands won't miss the beam. :)
 

putri

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Sep 1, 2011
87
Ok, we're giving it a go!! The interlocking thumb tip seems to work best!

Dd can't see the beam when going back. Is she suppose to or some people do and others don't?
 

putri

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Sep 1, 2011
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Gymdog, how do I know about shoulder flexibility? Her hip flexor is average as far as I know. She does square hip splits. We did have a slight turn but it's ok now.
 

Jenny

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Get her to do a bridge up against a wall with her hands 4 inches away shoulder width apart. If she can push to bridge and lean over her shoulders until her armpits touch the wall (with straight arms and legs) she has good shoulder flexibility. If her armpits are way off the wall or she needs to bend her arms or legs her shoulders are stiff. There should not be a big crick in her back, the shoulders should be fully open.

If she has stiffer shoulders I wouldn't start with her fingers touching each other as I think it encourages the shoulders to 'close'. Shoulder distance apart is fine.

Should she see the beam? Hmmm. I always tell kids to grow really tall and then look for the beam and that they might not see it with their eyes but their brain will see it and put their hands on it. I don't remember actually seeing it myself, but it was a long time ago!
 

putri

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Sep 1, 2011
87
Well everybody, she linked her thumbs together and voila, 3 BWO in a row! Still wobbly landing but waaaaaaay better than before and massive improvement on the hands holding on to beam! Thank you!!!

Stay tune for the next problem ;)
 

putri

Member
Sep 1, 2011
87
Well everybody, she linked her thumbs together and voila, 3 BWO in a row! Still wobbly landing but waaaaaaay better than before and massive improvement on the hands holding on to beam! Thank you!!!

Stay tune for the next problem ;)
 
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