WAG Circling skills - how important are they?

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ReluctantGymMom

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May 11, 2020
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This is a real niche question, but my kids thing is bars - she picks up hard skills rapidly, and she has lofty goals to get a scholarship as a bar specialist (she’s hoping to be able to dump beam eventually LOL).

But I wanted to ask, how important is it to work stalders and toe-ons as well? Our gym focuses only on clear hips and skills that connect to clear hip handstands, but lots of the bigger release moves I’ve seen seen to have stalder roots (everything is so fast, I’m no expert so I’m not sure). They don’t work any other circling skill because we’re short staffed and there’s a lot of girls, but I just wanted to check if this was actually going to cause an issue for upper optionals or not?
 
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JBS

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You can easily build a college routine without toe hands and stalders.

The clear hips just need to be really good... like the ability to turn and/or fly.
 

JBS

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This video shows how the clear hip can work just fine too...

 
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ReluctantGymMom

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May 11, 2020
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This video shows how the clear hip can work just fine too...


Thanks! She can turn but of course no flight yet lol. I have seen her working on pike sole circles to handstand, I didn’t know this was a “thing” :). And for single bar releases (which I hope are a long way away), this has nothing to do with them right?
 

MuggleMom

Proud Parent
Dec 22, 2016
828
Virginia
My kids coach already told her she will be doing her release moves out of a clear hip....I don't think she will ever be a toe to hand girl and she hasn't really tried any stalders yet. But her coach definitely has things in mind for her as she progresses.

I liked watching this video to see how the different entries into the same general release look/work. You really never see and pike stalders do you? I'm not even sure I really knew that was a thing! To me that looks the hardest. I think the most common are the straddle stalder and toe to hand.
 
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mom2newgymnast

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Jul 8, 2014
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My daughter only learned the clear hip (no toe on or stalder) because that seems to be the one her coach is best at teaching. She worked on a toe on for a while, but never got it). She wasn't really great at the clear hip either tbh and she ditched it this year. She was a first year level 10 this year and didn't do any of those. She didn't quite start from a 10.0 (she didn't get the blind full in time), but she did a jaeger in her routine which worked well for her.
 

LJL07

Proud Parent
Jan 27, 2014
1,859
This is a real niche question, but my kids thing is bars - she picks up hard skills rapidly, and she has lofty goals to get a scholarship as a bar specialist (she’s hoping to be able to dump beam eventually LOL).

But I wanted to ask, how important is it to work stalders and toe-ons as well? Our gym focuses only on clear hips and skills that connect to clear hip handstands, but lots of the bigger release moves I’ve seen seen to have stalder roots (everything is so fast, I’m no expert so I’m not sure). They don’t work any other circling skill because we’re short staffed and there’s a lot of girls, but I just wanted to check if this was actually going to cause an issue for upper optionals or not?
I’m so glad that you asked this because the only circling skill most of the gyms here seem to work on besides giants are free hip handstands. Very occasionally I will see a stalder or toe hand at a meet but my girls pretty much never work on any other circling skills. I’ve always thought if they worked on other circling skills consistently they could get it. They both love bars too.
 

ReluctantGymMom

Proud Parent
May 11, 2020
357
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My kids coach already told her she will be doing her release moves out of a clear hip....I don't think she will ever be a toe to hand girl and she hasn't really tried any stalders yet. But her coach definitely has things in mind for her as she progresses.

I liked watching this video to see how the different entries into the same general release look/work. You really never see and pike stalders do you? I'm not even sure I really knew that was a thing! To me that looks the hardest. I think the most common are the straddle stalder and toe to hand.
My kiddo is not a toe on person lol - to be fair, he did try teaching it to her first but she couldn’t get the timing down from the handstand (in the like…week they did them, but she hit handstand in her clear hips and entered meet season so stuck with that). One girl knows how to do her stalder on strap bar but she competes clear hip too. I didn’t realize pike was a thing, I just thought my kid was trying to dislocate her shoulders every time I’ve seen her do it.
 

mom2newgymnast

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Jul 8, 2014
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I’m so glad that you asked this because the only circling skill most of the gyms here seem to work on besides giants are free hip handstands. Very occasionally I will see a stalder or toe hand at a meet but my girls pretty much never work on any other circling skills. I’ve always thought if they worked on other circling skills consistently they could get it. They both love bars too.

I think clear hip handstands seem the most popular here too. But I will say that our head coach (who only works with the invitation only level 10s) does not seem to like them at all. So almost everyone in his group works stalders or toe ons instead). And there are several first year level 10s in my daughter's group that do toe shoots instead of a single bar release. Not sure how that fits in. lol.
 

ReluctantGymMom

Proud Parent
May 11, 2020
357
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I’m so glad that you asked this because the only circling skill most of the gyms here seem to work on besides giants are free hip handstands. Very occasionally I will see a stalder or toe hand at a meet but my girls pretty much never work on any other circling skills. I’ve always thought if they worked on other circling skills consistently they could get it. They both love bars too.
Lol maybe it’s having seen so many clear hips but the other circling skills look cooler
 

MuggleMom

Proud Parent
Dec 22, 2016
828
Virginia
For the lower level optionalsI see almost exclusively Free Hips (the occasional straddle stalder at level 8 is always a plesant surprise) but level 9/10 I see a lot move variety especially as entries into other moves. I get the impression that the clear hip is the easiest to teach the hand shift then once you get that depending on flexibility etc you can learn others. My kid doesn't have great pike flexibility that's why I don't think she will ever be a toe to hand girl.
 

JBS

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There are two reasons you see more clear hips than anything else...
  1. It's the only small circle than can be taught to less than handstand. All of the other small circles only go to handstand. In other words... it's not possible to do a stalder all the way back around to 30 degrees.
  2. Most clubs don't work drills for the other small circles enough.
When you are comparing how many have a clear hip to the other small circles... only count clear hips that actually go to handstand. The clear hip is the only option when an athlete cannot go to handstand.

It's pretty rare that an athlete that can do a toe-hand or stalder won't be able to do a clear hip to handstand. They may be better at the toe-hand or other small circle... but they will almost always be able to get a clear hip to hand fairly easily if they have one of the other small circles to handstand.
 
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LucyRobinson

Gymnast
Feb 27, 2022
133
Our gym always teaches clear hips in Level 5 and everyone Level 6/7 does clear hips. But both Level 10s do toe to hands, and many 8/9s switched to toe hands too. We have 0 stalders in an optionals team of 35ish. One girl in Level 6 is I think planning to do stalders eventually because I guess they clicked for her...at least more than they clicked for other people... always thought a stalder was such a cool skill.
 
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rlm's mom

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Aug 21, 2021
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By not learning toe ons and stalkers she is limited in her routine construction. If her clear hips are good that should be fine but I would consider privates with another coach if. At least doing some drills will help diversify her options.
My DDs all did clear hips in 6/7. DD16 now does a toe on before her maloney. DD13 has been training a stalder into her tkatchev - will see how that plays out. Worth having some variety!
 

ReluctantGymMom

Proud Parent
May 11, 2020
357
32
By not learning toe ons and stalkers she is limited in her routine construction. If her clear hips are good that should be fine but I would consider privates with another coach if. At least doing some drills will help diversify her options.
My DDs all did clear hips in 6/7. DD16 now does a toe on before her maloney. DD13 has been training a stalder into her tkatchev - will see how that plays out. Worth having some variety!
Our gym doesn’t do privates. She’s working toe-ons a bit on strap bar now, I’m hoping there’s time in the summer to work other circling skills consistently because she’s bored out of her dang mind right now. Unfortunately issues with beam mean she’s not in the right group for bars right now (with the 8s and 9s) and is just getting frustrated that she has to wait a turn to do pirouettes while others get spotted on handstands and clear hips (and since they -all- need spotting, the coach can’t leave them to help her). Dang beam
 

Oopski

Proud Parent
May 25, 2012
495
Texas
Interesting, my daughter is a level 7 and has a clearhip-handstand (competing it), sometimes hits her toe-hand, and is working stalder drills in straps. She started working all 3 circling skills as a level 4. It feels super slow going, and who knows if she’ll ever get the stalder.

Our upper level girls do a mix of circling skills, there are only a few who can do a stalder, but the toe-on from low to high connected to a pak seems to be the popular goal for most girls for level 10. Honestly most of our 8s do a toe-hand, and only our 7s do the freehip-hand.
 
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