Parents Coach/gymnast ratio

[LuLu22]

Hello! Newly joined!

A quick background. We have a 7-year-old DD who has been on a fast-track team for the last year and a half. She will compete L3 this fall and L4 in the winter/spring. She also tested for TOPS this summer. Skill-wise, she has blossomed over the last 6 months, but it seems she's lacking in the details and "gracefulness."

We know our DD is a bit immature for her age and since she has been with the same girls/coaches for a while, there is a definitely a certain comfort level she has with them. However, lately we've been getting reports that she is having issues when she's in the gym with not staying focused, being sloppy, and choosing/being asked to sit out because she's not following directions. BUT per her report, she loves the gym and wants to be there. We are fade-into-the-background kind of parents...we aren't gymnasts and we really don't 'get' this world yet. And her coaches know that, so the fact that they are bringing this to us has us thinking, especially because we are paying a ridiculous amount for gymnastics right now.

So my question is this: what is the typical coach-to-gymnast ratio for a fast-track program?

Right now we are at about 10:1 (sometimes 10:2), and I feel like this might be one of the reasons for my DD's distraction/lack of motivation. When I watch practice, there seems to be a lot of independent/not-directly-supervised training time and a lot of sloppy gymnastics from all the girls. I know she's a kid who needs more refocusing and does really well when she gets that 1:1 attention. I realize there is a definitely a need for self motivation in the gym, but with such young kids in the gym 4 days a week, it has had me wondering what the ratio is at other gyms? Should we be looking for a situation that gets us more one-on-one coaching since we know that would work better for our kid? Or is this typical/normal and just part of the process?

Sorry that got long! We look forward to your responses!

 

[Gymnast C's mom]

My daughter is also 7 and training level 3 and this sounds a lot like our situation. There are 10 girls on her team and the coaching ratio is usually 10:2 but there are definitely days (or portions of practice) where it is 10:1. My dd also finds the 10:1 ratio hard as she is expected to work on her own and sometimes she just doesn't =(. So no advice but we are in the same situation!

 

[Mish]

Maybe she is not ready for high hours/high intensity yet. Does your gym have a "regular" track? My dd did lv 3 at 7 and lv 4 at 8 without any "fast track" and did very well! As far as the ratios, 10:1 sounds a little high, but not unheard of.

 

[CuriousCate]

Our gym tries not to go more than 8:1 for level 3 and 4. My DD is also 7. She just started competing level 4 last weekend. She is not on a "fast track", just regular and this is still the ratio. I did notice that once she hit L4, there was a lot more independent work for conditioning and "stations" on the different events rather than waiting for your turn with the coach. That's been a big transition for her too...it's hard to stay on track when you're 7 and no one is directly supervising. I think it's age appropriate.

The fast track girls in our gym move to a day program at level 4 earliest. For level 4, I think they hoped to have 8 girls as well, so even for that it would have been 8:1. I think they currently have 5-6 girls. It seems the fast track for them means more hours and up-training as opposed to smaller groups.

 

[LindyHopper]

I want to say that it is 8:1 to 10:1 throughout the whole gym recreational through Level 9.

 

[Lilou]

I too have an immature 7 year old in L3. There is no fast track or TOPS at our gym. Our ratio is about 1:7 or 1:8 and the gymnasts do have stations and are expected to work some on their own through the stations. My daughter does everything but there are days when I can tell she's just going through the motion and appears sloppy when she's tired. But she's also just 7 so I think some of that goes with the territory for some kids. 1:10 seems on the higher end, but 10:2 would be great. You won't get a 1:1 unless you're doing private lessons.

 

[2gymkids]

Having made a recent gym move, I will say that coach/gymnast ratio is SO impacted on how skilled the coach is at group management, etc. My DD went from a 5:2 situation to a 9:1 situation in the same gym and the 9:1 was horrible, but probably would have been fine with either of the two previous coaches. The kids barely got coached, waited around a lot, etc. She's at a gym now with similar ratios (8-10:1 or 18:2, depending on the day/part of practice/event) and sometimes even higher (it's often 18:1 for end of practice stretching or conditioning, etc) and those girls are working and kept on task. These are all kids in the 8-11 age range (and last year was 7-9 year olds). It is just such a different environment with little downtime, everyone on task, coaches able to group manage, etc. It also can be kid dependent....we had one kid last year who had a really tough time staying on track and it definitely impacted the others.

We did look at a gym with quite a bit higher ratios- more like 25-30:2 and those girls, as well, were on track and moving and working and getting coached very well, too. It was a little higher than liked, but they seemed to make it work.

 

[amiandjim]

We have 34-35 girls with 4 coaches so around 9-10:1 for our level 3 team. They do have several stations and a lot of self directed work, but the coach for that event is always watching and correcting from afar, even while working her hands on station. They are all 6-8 years old (maybe a couple 9?) and seem to do well with it.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

About 40 kids, 4 coaches.

Personally I think 4 days a week is too much gym for a 7 yr old L3/4.

One on one coaching are called privates and they are very expensive. And not necessary on a regular basis.

 

[Amanda]

I think our gym probably averages about 10:1 for Level 3/4- some days a little less and some days a little more. Our girls are probably more in the 8 to 12 year range so this might be why it works.

 

[MILgymFAM]

Our gym isn't high hours so doesn't have a fast track. That aside, our L3-L5 girls all train together (as do our optionals). Girls team has three coaches. They have about 15 girls per training group, so about 15:3 gymnast to coach ratio across all levels. We had much higher- and actually much lower- in the past, and I've determined that the ratio doesn't matter nearly as much as it seems it should on its face. Now, I've no experience with little doubt team, so I'm sure that's an important facet, but I don't think you'll find a team with an inordinate amount of one on one practice built in. Stations and side work have always been standard for us.

 

[SMH]

We recently had some inner gym changes and went from 7:1 to 10:1. This is a group of mostly 7 and 8 yr olds training level 3/4.
In my limited practice viewing experience,
I think the smaller ratio was more ideal for this age group. But- the most important thing seems to be the coaches ability to manage the group. I caught a vault rotation with one of the newer coaches and the group of girls waiting to vault were acting very silly, playing handclap games, hanging upside down on the other vault- but the coach was on the other side of the gym and never glanced over once. 7 and 8 yr olds generally don't have enough discipline to be essentially unattended, on a Friday night in a place they love full of their best friends.
Other coaches this would have not happened because they would have their eye on the group along with the individual vaulting. I think ratio is important but management is key.

 

[LuLu22]

Thanks for the quick replies! Sounds like 10:1/10:2 is pretty normal. It seems the issue is with management/control of the group. DD is in the gym ALOT (12 hours a week right now). How often are your kids in the gym? The coaches are young with not a lot of experience. Also I feel like our tuition, comp fees, and uniform costs are HIGH compared to other gyms in the area, so I struggle with getting what we are paying for. As in, when you are paying a car payment to a gym every month, is it too much to expect creativity and strong management of a group of 7-8 year olds versus making them sit and not participate (and don't get me wrong, I'm all for the coaching staff discipling my kid when necessary - just don't feel like its what works for DD). We will ride it out and see how she does in the coming weeks and reevaluate the hours if we need to.

Oh and I was going to say, the "fast track" was never really explained to us. I don't know how gymnasts typically move up through the levels (if its one level per season or multiple). We have lots to learn.

 

[amiandjim]

My DD (8 year old, level 3) does 11 hours a week, and did 15 in the summer without problem. However, she is very focused and gets irritated when others goof off. There are girls who do "get in trouble" for goofing off/not focusing but they don't made them sit out. I would not be happy about that.

As far as cost, I believe we pay (DH does bills) $280/month for tuition and an additional $45 for progressive (think TOPS). We then pay an additional $242/month for 7 months that covers our comp fees, leotards, etc...

 

[Aussie_coach]

Gymnast:coach ratio has less impact than people like to believe. It is the quality of the coaching that determines the quality of the gymnastics.

Some coaches can have 4:1 and still struggle to produce good quality in their athletes. Some coaches can have 15:1 and produce stars. It depends on their own personalities, capabilities, experience and drive.

Groups that are too small can also impair a gymnasts training. The value of training in a group is that each individual helps to propel the group forward. The kids learn from each other and drive each other. You will often see one kid get a skill, then many of them get the skill. If the group is not big enough it can lack this energy.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

Gymnast:coach ratio has less impact than people like to believe. It is the quality of the coaching that determines the quality of the gymnastics.

Some coaches can have 4:1 and still struggle to produce good quality in their athletes. Some coaches can have 15:1 and produce stars. It depends on their own personalities, capabilities, experience and drive.

Groups that are too small can also impair a gymnasts training. The value of training in a group is that each individual helps to propel the group forward. The kids learn from each other and drive each other. You will often see one kid get a skill, then many of them get the skill. If the group is not big enough it can lack this energy.

This is very true! I prefer to have at least 8-9 gymnasts per group. I think most clubs here form groups of 10-12 gymnasts, it's pretty standard everywhere. Some clubs may have smaller groups, like 4-6 gymnasts. Even if it might be nice to get more turns and more hands on spotting, it can also become overwhelming for the girls. If you only have a few gymnasts in the group, that means that they all are observed, corrected and followed all the time by the coaches.

I think that independent work is important too. The gymnasts learn to think themselves, they get to try things their own way and they will find a way to make things work. They learn to listen their bodies and make adjustments and corrections based on how the skill felt versus what the coach told you to do etc. Everyone who has experienced for example studying in a small class versus large class knows the feeling of the teacher breathing down your neck when you try to solve a math problem and there's only a few kids in the class, so it feels like the teacher is watching you all the time. You feel like you can't think clearly when someone is behind your back and you are afraid of making mistakes in front someone else's eyes. You want to have a little space and time to try to solve it by yourself, and when you get stuck it's nice that the teacher is around and can come and help you. But it's very pressing when the teacher is too close all the time.

Also, it can be overwhelming to the body also if the group is very small and the practices are still 3-4 hours long. If even 1 or 2 gymnasts are sick and not there and you still have 45 minutes vault rotation and there's only 2-3 gymnasts vaulting... Well, it will be very hard to do good vaults when you have no time to recover between turns.

 

[raenndrops]

If even 1 or 2 gymnasts are sick and not there and you still have 45 minutes vault rotation and there's only 2-3 gymnasts vaulting... Well, it will be very hard to do good vaults when you have no time to recover between turns.

Back when YG was almost 5, about 3/4 of our "old L4" girls missed practice for back to school night. That meant we only had 3 girls to vault. The HC was the one working with them. YG was only in rec, but her class was over. She was waiting for OG to finish team practice, so she had nothing to do. HC invited YG to vault with the team girls. HC told me that it would help to have another vaulter because the girls would get too tired running back and forth, lol.
Afterward, HC thanked YG for helping her out.

 

[Aussie_coach]

This is very true! I prefer to have at least 8-9 gymnasts per group. I think most clubs here form groups of 10-12 gymnasts, it's pretty standard everywhere. Some clubs may have smaller groups, like 4-6 gymnasts. Even if it might be nice to get more turns and more hands on spotting, it can also become overwhelming for the girls. If you only have a few gymnasts in the group, that means that they all are observed, corrected and followed all the time by the coaches.

I think that independent work is important too. The gymnasts learn to think themselves, they get to try things their own way and they will find a way to make things work. They learn to listen their bodies and make adjustments and corrections based on how the skill felt versus what the coach told you to do etc. Everyone who has experienced for example studying in a small class versus large class knows the feeling of the teacher breathing down your neck when you try to solve a math problem and there's only a few kids in the class, so it feels like the teacher is watching you all the time. You feel like you can't think clearly when someone is behind your back and you are afraid of making mistakes in front someone else's eyes. You want to have a little space and time to try to solve it by yourself, and when you get stuck it's nice that the teacher is around and can come and help you. But it's very pressing when the teacher is too close all the time.

Also, it can be overwhelming to the body also if the group is very small and the practices are still 3-4 hours long. If even 1 or 2 gymnasts are sick and not there and you still have 45 minutes vault rotation and there's only 2-3 gymnasts vaulting... Well, it will be very hard to do good vaults when you have no time to recover between turns.

Very strongly agree that kids need to also independently work the drills and skills, supervised of course for safety but not always bombarded by contestant correction. The kids need time to drill it and feel it.

 

[honu]

Gymnast:coach ratio has less impact than people like to believe. It is the quality of the coaching that determines the quality of the gymnastics.

We encountered this exact issues. DD was at a gym with a very small optional level team. There was a 5:1 ratio. Girls had lots of turns on vault and there was a good deal of spotting on bars. I thought the low ratio, extra turns, and more hands on spotting were all pluses. Later, we moved to a gym with a much larger team and a 10:1 ratio (sometimes higher). There was less spotting and less coach's eyes on you all the time. Within months, DD made great progress in the new gym. DD said the biggest difference was the corrections given. She understood exactly what she needed to do differently. The corrections were clear and made sense to her. The quality of coaching and the quality of the program (conditioning, practice plans, drills) was much more important than the small ratio. I understand the numbers and ratio could have more of an impact with younger kids, but there is no substitute for quality coaching.

As far as hours go, DD practiced 12 to 16 hours a week for level 3 and 4. Those hours are fairly common for our area. Practice hours will increase as you move up. In the optional levels, you can expect to see a jump to 20+ hours.

 

[duyetanh]

10:1 I think is good. 8:1 would be awesome, but hard to get. Really, if the girls are on task, your numbers should be fine.