College scholarship discussion MOVED from 'Should DD quit due to lack of progression'

[MaryA]

I would think the main goal at this point is college. If not, then is it worth so much of our lives for only the recreational purpose and for friends?

If the main reason you're keeping her in gymnastics is because you hope she's going to get a college scholarship, don't. I mean, I'm sure many/most of the parents on Chalk Bucket have a least a bit of a fantasy of a college gymnastics scholarship in the back of their head, but let's face it, as sad as it is to say that our kids are all washed up as 11-year-old level 6's, the ones who make optionals earlier certainly have a better shot at it. And even if your daughter and mine were on that "ideal path to a college scholarship," whatever that is (I hear a lot of people say you need to be a level 10 by your freshman year of highschool), then we STILL have to face the fact that injuries or burn-out or boys or just plain losing interest eliminates most of the jillion or so girls who start off gung-ho in this sport. Paying $7000 a year for gymnastics is NOT a $7000 investment in college any more than spending money on lottery tickets is a retirement investment. Could it happen? Sure. But it shouldn't by WHY she's in gymnastics.

 

[AGM78910]

If the main reason you're keeping her in gymnastics is because you hope she's going to get a college scholarship, don't. I mean, I'm sure many/most of the parents on Chalk Bucket have a least a bit of a fantasy of a college gymnastics scholarship in the back of their head, but let's face it, as sad as it is to say that our kids are all washed up as 11-year-old level 6's, the ones who make optionals earlier certainly have a better shot at it. And even if your daughter and mine were on that "ideal path to a college scholarship," whatever that is (I hear a lot of people say you need to be a level 10 by your freshman year of highschool), then we STILL have to face the fact that injuries or burn-out or boys or just plain losing interest eliminates most of the jillion or so girls who start off gung-ho in this sport. Paying $7000 a year for gymnastics is NOT a $7000 investment in college any more than spending money on lottery tickets is a retirement investment. Could it happen? Sure. But it shouldn't by WHY she's in gymnastics.

Please don't believe that a girl HAS to be a level 10 by freshman year in high school. There is no 'ideal" path. I personally know several girls who are now have full ride college gymnastics scholarships who did not reach level 10 until their junior or senior year.
And as one of the previous posters pointed out, it is great exercise and a good way to keep them occupied. As long as they love the sport and are not goofing off and wasting the coaches time, I say leave them in the sport.

 

[cher062]

Please don't believe that a girl HAS to be a level 10 by freshman year in high school. There is no 'ideal" path. I personally know several girls who are now have full ride college gymnastics scholarships who did not reach level 10 until their junior or senior year.
And as one of the previous posters pointed out, it is great exercise and a good way to keep them occupied. As long as they love the sport and are not goofing off and wasting the coaches time, I say leave them in the sport.

I don't believe it as my 14 yo freshmen is competing L7 for a 2nd year hoping to move to L8 1/2 way through but I don't think its going to happen. She is going to do HS gymnastics too. She loves doing this and is having fun that's enough for me.

 

[cher062]

If the main reason you're keeping her in gymnastics is because you hope she's going to get a college scholarship, don't. I mean, I'm sure many/most of the parents on Chalk Bucket have a least a bit of a fantasy of a college gymnastics scholarship in the back of their head, but let's face it, as sad as it is to say that our kids are all washed up as 11-year-old level 6's, the ones who make optionals earlier certainly have a better shot at it. And even if your daughter and mine were on that "ideal path to a college scholarship," whatever that is (I hear a lot of people say you need to be a level 10 by your freshman year of highschool), then we STILL have to face the fact that injuries or burn-out or boys or just plain losing interest eliminates most of the jillion or so girls who start off gung-ho in this sport. Paying $7000 a year for gymnastics is NOT a $7000 investment in college any more than spending money on lottery tickets is a retirement investment. Could it happen? Sure. But it shouldn't by WHY she's in gymnastics.

being L10 by freshmen year isn't true we have 2 girls that just moved to L10 and one is looking for a college scholarship one is a SR in High School the other a JR both were L7 or L8 coming into HS and I know of at least 3 others that were in that same boat. She actually has a few schools looking at her but they aren't her first choices for the academic or distance from home that she would like to have.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

being L10 by freshmen year isn't true we have 2 girls that just moved to L10 and one is looking for a college scholarship one is a SR in High School the other a JR both were L7 or L8 coming into HS and I know of at least 3 others that were in that same boat. She actually has a few schools looking at her but they aren't her first choices for the academic or distance from home that she would like to have.

What I see happens with the girls who are not great L10's by 9th or 10th grade (at least in my state) is that they end up doing to Div III schools like Brockport, Springfield, or whatever. Not sure how that works from a financial standpoint since there aren't gymnastics scholarships. Do they give them "in state" tuition since we have no div III schools in our state?

I completely understand the frustration with the time and expense involved in this sport. It's truly a balancing act for the whole family from that standpoint. But as Dunno says, she's still young. If it's not too much of a hardship, I'd definitely give her some more time to see what happens.

LOVE Picklesmom's post!

 

[bribri514]

OFF TOPIC WARNING! (sorry just had to respond to the college thing going on!!)

It's complicated but there's a difference between being recruited, the divisions, and getting a scholarship.

The scholarship for gymnastics requiring you to be a L 10 by your freshman year has to do with -major- D I schools. The big ones you have to be a stand out L 10 then or shortly after. Utah, UCLA, Georgia, 'Bama, etc. Only D 1 schools give scholarships. To get a full ride at schools, you have to be about a L 10 by your freshman year. Most schools, especially their gymnastics teams (never ever their football team though grrrrr) have no money so they take one full scholarship and split it up to a bunch of partials. If you're a little behind the curve it's possible to get a partial scholarship and be recruited, so you can be a L 8 or so by your freshman year if you keep moving up to L 10 at smaller D 1 schools that will recruit you at L 9 possibly but mostly a later L 10. Schools like Bridgeport, Air Force, Temple, etc. The Ivys fall in here, but they don't give scholarships, it's a league policy (aka ASac didn't get any scholarship to go to Brown!!) But do not expect a large scholarship at a DI school unless you're a L 10 gymnast (maybe a STELLAR L 9 at a SMALL LOWER level D I, and the sooner the better!!

Of course there's tons of college options for gymnasts at lower levels, but fewer scholarship options. DII schools also offer smaller scholarships. The way it goes is sports scholarships are based on the amount of full football scholarships. DI have 85!!!!! (sick I know!!!) DII has 35. It's not the same amount of scholarships as football but close so you can see how much fewer DII have.

So you're more likely to be recruited at lower levels for DII schools but for gymnastics you will rarely rarely get a full ride, and are more likely to get a small partial supplemented by academic aid which is why it's sooooo important not to throw away school for gym because if you don't go to the Olympics you're waaaaaY behind. If you're a lower level gymnast you can still go to these smaller lower division colleges but you need to have good academics to get the academic scholarships most coaches set you up with instead of athletic ones!!

Hope this helps!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gymdad2]

I have posted dd's story before, so this is for the original poster and any newbies who are thinking gymnastics scholarship. Dd was L7 at 11, did well as an optional but lost parts of 2 seasons due to injury (broken wrist, broken foot), still made L10 by junior year. She got several d2 walkon offers (sorry, no scholarship money available at this time), and nothing from a d1 school for gym. What she did get was an 85% full-ride scholarship from an out-of-state d1 school for Academics! She acheived this in spite of the time devoted to practice (22 hrs / wk) and missing school for travel and meets. So whatever you decide, do not overlook the importance of school and grades. Gymnastics will end and friends may come and go, but education is for life!
Good luck.

 

[bribri514]

I have posted dd's story before, so this is for the original poster and any newbies who are thinking gymnastics scholarship. Dd was L7 at 11, did well as an optional but lost parts of 2 seasons due to injury (broken wrist, broken foot), still made L10 by junior year. She got several d2 walkon offers (sorry, no scholarship money available at this time), and nothing from a d1 school for gym. What she did get was an 85% full-ride scholarship from an out-of-state d1 school for Academics! She acheived this in spite of the time devoted to practice (22 hrs / wk) and missing school for travel and meets. So whatever you decide, do not overlook the importance of school and grades. Gymnastics will end and friends may come and go, but education is for life!
Good luck.

Yep yep yep!! Many "oldtimers" know my story but we have a lot of new members. I made it to L 10 when I was 11 and qualified for and placed at nationals throughout middle school. I quit gymnastics though in my sophomore year because I was unable to try to qualify for elite because of my gym and family's limitations. I went back to gym my senior year. I competed L 10 and qualified for regionals (and then landed on my head on the beam and that was that). I went to a D I state school for gymnastics but did NOT get a scholarship. I paid for school with a scholarship for disabled students that was partially based on grades and community service and federal financial aid based on my family's economic status. I also had work study where I worked in the Disability Student Services office. I trained with the gymnastics team with the promise that if I did well I could earn scholarship money. Starting with partial scholarship for certain scores and if I were to go to nationals for example then I could possibly get a full ride if the team had enough. Unfortunately I got hurt right before the first meet and had to stop training. If I had been on a full scholarship I could have lost it because they're based on performance. So never ever ever think gymnastics (or other sports) is a slam dunk into college. Never sacrifice education for gymnastics ever ever ever. That's why I cringe when people say they pull their kids out of regular school for gymnastics. Some families homeschool for personal reasons and that's okay! It's just the idea of placing more value on gym than school that concerns me if that makes any sense at all!

In regards to your DD, all these suggestions are great. A prep-op program, a closer gym, rec gymnastics, putting her back in regular school, carpooling with other gym parents. I learned SOOOOO much from gymnastics that has helped me in life. Here's something I said in another thread last year that I think really sums up how beneficial gymnastics is...

"Gymnastics has made the biggest impact on my life so far... it taught me a lot about communication. Whether it was my teammates or my coaches we were always thinking up new ways to communicate.

It also taught me discipline. Gymnastics is hard!! There's no doubt about it. You're forced to do things with your body that only crazy people would think about it. It hurts. It is mentally tough. But so is life. Learning English was also hard for me. I saw a lot of Deaf friends not bother because it was "too hard". But I think I was able to keep going with it, because of my gymnastics background. When kids made fun of me for trying to talk, or I'd come home from 4th grade crying I wasn't with the other kids in class or didn't understand what was going on. I learned to put 110 percent into everything I tried and keep pushing past what I thought was impossible. Without that I don't think I would have been mainstreamed in school or gone on to college. I would have missed a lot of opportunities.

When people say they're amazed that I went to college and went to regular school and stuff I just kind of shrug. Honestly I think it's way more amazing I competed at level 10 and finally got my full in-full out down! If you can do gymnastics, you can do anything!

I think gymnastics is unique because it teaches us to face the impossible, with a smile, with grace and with pure grit."

That's the kind of thing gymnastics gives you that lasts a lifetime, scores and medals fade away. So if your daughter loves it and tries hard and you can find a way to deal with your stress and finances, let her stay regardless of her scores!!

 

[MarR99]

That's why I cringe when people say they pull their kids out of regular school for gymnastics. Some families homeschool for personal reasons and that's okay! It's just the idea of placing more value on gym than school that concerns me if that makes any sense at all!

When dd was in third grade she was obviously getting too stressed out with her schedule. Our schools here require a ridiculous amount of homework for elementary school and middle school (up to 2 or 3 hours a night) Our High school is more reasonable, thankfully (my older daughter only does about one hour a night). We realized with the increase of hours at the gym that dd needed to quit gymnastics or we needed to home-school. Our school district here offers a home-school campus that we work with so we actually meet regularly with a teacher there, have labs on site, have classes twice a week and test there so it is actually a great alternative. Dd's test scores have actually improved greatly so it has been a good thing for her. I am also a CA credentialed teacher so I would be qualified to teach regardless of if we enrolled in an "official" school or not.

Homeschooling is not always a sacrifice for quality education. Sometimes it provides a more enriched and higher quality education. Just my two cents.

 

[bookworm]

Bribri...great post (albeit off topic) but so true about the feasability of a college scholarship and gymnastics. Not to be Debbie Downer here but even though many posters see girls in their gym "getting recruited and getting scholarships", I can assure that it is getting harder to be signed with every passing year...so what Bri says about being a L10 by 9th grade (or sooner) is right on the money. Not that school can't be financed in other ways or that your daughters can't do gym in college but what Bri posts IS the reality of the situation out there...

 

[bribri514]

When dd was in third grade she was obviously getting too stressed out with her schedule. Our schools here require a ridiculous amount of homework for elementary school and middle school (up to 2 or 3 hours a night) Our High school is more reasonable, thankfully (my older daughter only does about one hour a night). We realized with the increase of hours at the gym that dd needed to quit gymnastics or we needed to home-school. Our school district here offers a home-school campus that we work with so we actually meet regularly with a teacher there, have labs on site, have classes twice a week and test there so it is actually a great alternative. Dd's test scores have actually improved greatly so it has been a good thing for her. I am also a CA credentialed teacher so I would be qualified to teach regardless of if we enrolled in an "official" school or not.

Homeschooling is not always a sacrifice for quality education. Sometimes it provides a more enriched and higher quality education. Just my two cents.

Oh don't worry I totally agree with you! (My mom is a public school teacher and admin so she's pro-public school for me and my siblings lol but still!) But I def. think homeschooling can be valuable. I just meant generally about a lot of people who do pull their kids out of school for gym. It's not about public school being better it's just the idea that some people value gymnastics more than education and I don't agree with that. Hopefully that makes sense! It's def not saying public school is > than homeschooling!

 

[NGL780309]

Just had to add something that is a bit misleading in your post Bri. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say. If you do have a full scholarship to a D1 school and you are injured badly enough that you are unable to compete ever again, it is unlikely you will lose your scholarship. They will be put on a medical scholarship in most cases. Girls will lose their scholarship for not performing up to par, but that is usually after many issues with fitness, attitude etc.

I just didn't want people to have the impression that if a gymnast does everything they are required to do and their performances are great and they have a fluke injury that they will be kicked off the team and sent packing. You will see many girls each year, unfortunately, put on medical.

 

[bribri514]

Just had to add something that is a bit misleading in your post Bri. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say. If you do have a full scholarship to a D1 school and you are injured badly enough that you are unable to compete ever again, it is unlikely you will lose your scholarship. They will be put on a medical scholarship in most cases. Girls will lose their scholarship for not performing up to par, but that is usually after many issues with fitness, attitude etc.

I just didn't want people to have the impression that if a gymnast does everything they are required to do and their performances are great and they have a fluke injury that they will be kicked off the team and sent packing. You will see many girls each year, unfortunately, put on medical.

You're def. right about the many girls who are medical redshirts but those are temporary injuries generally. Redshirts are also used sometimes on great freshmen so they can compete for four years when they're older. Not so much the case for gymnastics but def. other sports! If you can't ever compete again after your freshman year because of a serious injury you'll generally not be able to stay on athletic scholarship through graduation unless you're amazing and got a multi year scholarship. In some specific cases. Sorry my post was about only one type of DI scholarship and those details on the specifics of that scholarship. Most I'm aware of have a condition that your scholarship is based on your performance. Some have exceptions for injury but unfortunately some don't. Some you'll lose if your grades go down, but if you have bad grades you cannot compete at all it's an NCAA rule. Other scholarships are 1 year and renewable based on performance and grades (that's a nervous time on the team when renewals come up! eek!). Some are 4 year and there's even some 5 year scholarships floating around that incorporate redshirting. They're still considered "full" scholarships because they cover your room/board, tuition and books for the time you're eligible under it. Hope that helps clarify that! NCAA scholarships are soooooo complicated. It's definitely not just being recruited and getting a scholarship unfortunately. I was involved in the process and there's still things I'm clueless on!!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

let me clarify this if you will:

1. all athletes on athletic scholarship have insurance policies attached to their bodies, so to speak. like the pianist that has their hands insured. so in the event that there is a career ending injury, and the team Doc does not certify that athlete fit, they roll that athlete over to what is called a "medical". the insurance policy picks up the remainder of their scholarship which frees up the athletic scolarship for another athlete at another time.

2. drugs, sex (pregnancy) and alcohol can cause an athlete to lose their scholarship. it is the "morals" clause written in to the scholarship contract.

3. if the athlete flunks out...well...they flunk out. no brainer there...no pun intended.

4. yes, attitude could be a contributing cause to the loss of a scholarship. quite honestly, i only hear of these about once a year. maybe 1 or 2 athletes. it's not as pervasive a problem as much as the other 3 although the above 3 usually are the underlying problems which lead to the bad attitude which cause the loss of the scholarship.

 

[LizzieLac]

I have to say that this one of the most interesting and informative threads I have read here!! I have wondered quite a bit about college gymnastics - getting on a team vs. scholarships, and DI vs DII or DIII.

So, thanks!!

 

[bookworm]

let me clarify this if you will:

1. all athletes on athletic scholarship have insurance policies attached to their bodies, so to speak. like the pianist that has their hands insured. so in the event that there is a career ending injury, and the team Doc does not certify that athlete fit, they roll that athlete over to what is called a "medical". the insurance policy picks up the remainder of their scholarship which frees up the athletic scolarship for another athlete at another time.

2. drugs, sex (pregnancy) and alcohol can cause an athlete to lose their scholarship. it is the "morals" clause written in to the scholarship contract.

3. if the athlete flunks out...well...they flunk out. no brainer there...no pun intended.

4. yes, attitude could be a contributing cause to the loss of a scholarship. quite honestly, i only hear of these about once a year. maybe 1 or 2 athletes. it's not as pervasive a problem as much as the other 3 although the above 3 usually are the underlying problems which lead to the bad attitude which cause the loss of the scholarship.

Dunno just to clarify here...according to my daughter's (soon to be) college coach pregnancy is NOT a reason for someone to lose their scholarship...and yes, i was surprised by that answer...she said because the FOB (father of the baby) is often a fellow student , sometimes on scholarship as well , and he will not be kicked off his team or out of school so the female is not penalized in that way either ..according to her , they get the year they have the baby and the year after to return to the team, all the while remaining on scholarship ...not ideal she admits and they try to prevent this from happening but that is what she says happens...there are exceptions and i think I remember hearing about a situation at Brigham Young but other than that i don't know

 

[bogwoppit]

Holy off topic Batman! Bri I blame you for starting it!!


Very interesting reading though. You, Bri, might consider splitting it so the OP's discussion doesn't get lost in the NCAA info.

 

[NGL780309]

You're def. right about the many girls who are medical redshirts but those are temporary injuries generally. Redshirts are also used sometimes on great freshmen so they can compete for four years when they're older. Not so much the case for gymnastics but def. other sports! If you can't ever compete again after your freshman year because of a serious injury you'll generally not be able to stay on athletic scholarship through graduation unless you're amazing and got a multi year scholarship. In some specific cases. Sorry my post was about only one type of DI scholarship and those details on the specifics of that scholarship. Most I'm aware of have a condition that your scholarship is based on your performance. Some have exceptions for injury but unfortunately some don't. Some you'll lose if your grades go down, but if you have bad grades you cannot compete at all it's an NCAA rule. Other scholarships are 1 year and renewable based on performance and grades (that's a nervous time on the team when renewals come up! eek!). Some are 4 year and there's even some 5 year scholarships floating around that incorporate redshirting. They're still considered "full" scholarships because they cover your room/board, tuition and books for the time you're eligible under it. Hope that helps clarify that! NCAA scholarships are soooooo complicated. It's definitely not just being recruited and getting a scholarship unfortunately. I was involved in the process and there's still things I'm clueless on!!

I'm not talking about a red-shirt. I'm talking about being placed on a medical because you can no longer do gymnastics. For example, Brittany Noble from UF was a freshman last year on a full scholarship. She had a serious enough back injury that she is completely finished with gymnastics. She barely competed for the Gators at all. She gets to stay and UF and it's covered just as if she were competing for them.

 

[NGL780309]

let me clarify this if you will:

1. all athletes on athletic scholarship have insurance policies attached to their bodies, so to speak. like the pianist that has their hands insured. so in the event that there is a career ending injury, and the team Doc does not certify that athlete fit, they roll that athlete over to what is called a "medical". the insurance policy picks up the remainder of their scholarship which frees up the athletic scolarship for another athlete at another time.

2. drugs, sex (pregnancy) and alcohol can cause an athlete to lose their scholarship. it is the "morals" clause written in to the scholarship contract.

3. if the athlete flunks out...well...they flunk out. no brainer there...no pun intended.

4. yes, attitude could be a contributing cause to the loss of a scholarship. quite honestly, i only hear of these about once a year. maybe 1 or 2 athletes. it's not as pervasive a problem as much as the other 3 although the above 3 usually are the underlying problems which lead to the bad attitude which cause the loss of the scholarship.

Didn't read this before I posted mine. I'm talking about #1. Thanks for verifying what I was talking about. It would be CRAZY if girls lost their scholarship for being injured. I didn't want uninformed parents to think that girls would lose their scholarship if they had a serious injury.

 

[MarR99]

MarR99

Since your DD's gym will not compete current L6 gymnasts as new L7's this January, you have a year with no meet entry fees, coach assessments, new competition leo/warmups, related travel costs, etc for an entire year. Only tuition. That should ease part of your concerns and hopefully allow more time to come to a decision while under less pressure.

Remember that your DD may not really be able to completely and fully communicate with you all of the benefits she experiences through and because of gymnastics.

Trust her coaches when they let you know that she is progressing!

I do understand the pressure is not financial alone, but also a matter of time and energy.

I know that we have a year off from meet fees, but they collect some of the meet fees (it was $675 this year) for the optional team before the end of the year (in November for the January meets.) Also, dd will need new warm ups and a new competition leo. Our gym has really nice ones at a cost of $475 for both. They order them in the Fall for the next year. Also, our gym charges $500 for floor choreography. They will ask for that in the Summer. So, without even competing we will have to shell out $1700 before the end of next year for these things. That is not even adding the $350 a month (With an additional $200 per month in the Summer for extra hours) and then the $200 for gas driving to and from gym each month for a grand total of about $8700 without a single meet. Maybe my gym is more expensive than others!? Our monthly fees seem pretty average though.