NCAA College Vaulting, the difference-maker

Parents... Coaches... Gymnasts...
Gymnastics Questions?
Don't Lurk... We've Got Answers!

New For 2022
MEMBERS ONLY Parent Group!
Join for FREE!
Status
Not open for further replies.

gym_dad32608

Proud Parent
Aug 7, 2018
365
53
What is becoming apparent to me this season, in my humble opinion, is how much the vaulting rotation is impacting the teams in their ability to win and potential national championship aspirations. Teams that hope to compete for a title better have 5 or preferably 6 competitive 10.0 SV vaults. Kudos to Michigan for seeming to be the first team to figure this out and make such an emphasis on having solid 10 SV vaults. Now there seems to be a race by the power programs (Oklahoma, Florida, Alabama, etc) to get 6 10 SV vaulters. A couple of observations/discussion points I would love comments on:

  • I think the rule changed in 2016 where Y-full was no longer 10 SV, why did it take so long for teams to take advantage of this change in scoring? Or maybe I was/am oblivious till now lol
  • Why is it still seemingly so difficult for teams to find a Y-1.5? Even many of the ex-elites seem to just do the Y-full. I know talking with my daughter, it is a real challenge to have that air awareness to turn an extra half versus one. But still, I am surprised at how many teams at best have 2-3 gymnasts doing a Y-1.5 or some other 10 SV vault.
  • Do judges scoring seem Yurchenko focused? Seeing that this is the most prevalent vault by far, the judging seems really wacked on these vaults (more than other events). Such a discrepancy between a stuck vault and others, where a y1.5 seems to get a 10 regardless of form at least from one judge. Seems like when judges see different vaults they have a difficult time scoring them or taking deductions from the 10 vaults.
  • Obviously the change was put in because Y-fulls had become so standard and difficult to differentiate between other teams. Do you think they should make similar changes to other events? Maybe certain elements on floor, which seems to be where everyone gets high scores?
Idk, maybe I have only recently become aware because I have really been watching a lot of college gymnastics the last year or two, but I do find it fascinating how it is the one rotation where teams can strategize and plan a competitive advantage.
 

rlm's mom

Proud Parent
Aug 21, 2021
308
39
Some thoughts:
I think the rule changed in 2016 where Y-full was no longer 10 SV, why did it take so long for teams to take advantage of this change in scoring? Or maybe I was/am oblivious till now lol
Since 2016 teams have been recruiting more gymnasts who can do 10.0 vaults, it takes a few years to get a team full of gymnasts with this ability.
Why is it still seemingly so difficult for teams to find a Y-1.5? Even many of the ex-elites seem to just do the Y-full. I know talking with my daughter, it is a real challenge to have that air awareness to turn an extra half versus one. But still, I am surprised at how many teams at best have 2-3 gymnasts doing a Y-1.5 or some other 10 SV vault.
Many elites who did a double twist downgrade to a full twist because a forward landing is very different. A 1.5 is an entirely different skill. DD16 has been working on a 1.5 and tells me how different the landing feels. She can't practice her full and 1.5 on the same day it throws her so off-balance!
Do judges scoring seem Yurchenko focused? Seeing that this is the most prevalent vault by far, the judging seems really wacked on these vaults (more than other events). Such a discrepancy between a stuck vault and others, where a y1.5 seems to get a 10 regardless of form at least from one judge. Seems like when judges see different vaults they have a difficult time scoring them or taking deductions from the 10 vaults.
It is much harder to get power from a front handspring or tsuk vault, so much harder to keep it cleaner and find the landing. In general a y1.5 is better executed.
 

JBS

Staff member
Gold Membership
Coach
Proud Parent
Sep 3, 2005
7,301
Wisconsin
Now this is a great conversation starter. All my opinion... but here we go...

I think the rule changed in 2016 where Y-full was no longer 10 SV, why did it take so long for teams to take advantage of this change in scoring? Or maybe I was/am oblivious till now lol

Yurchenko 1.5's are very hard. It takes a totally different type of training to be able to stick these vaults. Many times the average college athlete could get a higher score going for a stick on a full... those days are obviously changing.

It's an air sense... power... and concept game. We've aways been a trampoline heavy club... but clubs are not.
  • Air Sense: Being able to feel and see the skill is very important. Clubs that do not have extensive "air" training can only get these numbers by doing the actual skill. This makes numbers hard. Much easier to learn to drop out of the sky from other places. See the videos below (click side to side to see them all)... notice the big 1/2 out landing on the 1.5 twisting double... this simulates the spotting of the landing...

  • Power training: Without aggressive sprint and track style technique & power training most will never consistently get the vault. Athletes and coaches need to know how to build the power they need to even try the vault. Watch the video below... are there any parts of this that could benefit vault... you bet...


  • Concepts: As a coach I have several "concepts" that we always come back to as we are developing athletes over the years. One of them is definitely... "If you are able to do "A"... "B"... and "C"... then you will be able to do "D"... just not right now... you're too little and not strong enough... that is for the future." Basically... once an athlete has AB&C... their mind converts to the "power training"... they know they would be able to do it if they had the power. "A" skips... "knees up... feet up... toes up"... "hip tilt"... "shin angle"... this stuff suddenly becomes very important to them. And you better believe this area of the gym becomes their best friend (and yes... we have full sets of dumbbells & kettlebells... medicine balls... hex bars... and more against the back wall)...
IMG_4385.jpeg
 
Last edited:

JBS

Staff member
Gold Membership
Coach
Proud Parent
Sep 3, 2005
7,301
Wisconsin
Wow... I really just ramble... but here goes again...

Here is another "concept"...

This is NOT a numbers game... it is a height game.

This leads us back to the "power training" and "air sense".

You can't spot the landing if you are too low. If a gymnast can simulate the skill on trampoline and such... then with power they will get it. The power can convert into height so it feels the same. We do not count into loose foam as being able to do anything... loose foam is a "lack of height". Rather we look for... on trampoline... or off trampoline to an actual landing... we even do things like 1/2 Kaz's & Kaz 1/2's off of a mini tramp to work the landings. We do tons of double front landing work. Lots of double layout 1/2 out work off tumbl trak to a resi pit.

Now here is the kicker statement...

Can you jump forward off of a 10 foot tower? (and stick on a live surface or resi pit firmed up with two CLM's over it or so?)

You'd be surprised how many athletes are trying these vaults (and bar dismounts)... but cannot jump off of something and land. And it doesn't count onto a resi... totally different.

We firm up our resi pits with 2 CLM's (12 cm Competition Landing Mats... the hard base mats at a meet).

Please don't believe that the step down layouts that the athletes do off the back of the vault table simulate the forces of the landings.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: PinPin

gym_dad32608

Proud Parent
Aug 7, 2018
365
53
Now this is a great conversation starter. All my opinion... but here we go...



Yurchenko 1.5's are very hard. It takes a totally different type of training to be able to stick these vaults. Many times the average college athlete could get a higher score going for a stick on a full... those days are obviously changing.
This is great info! Definitely gives me a better understanding of the challenge of competing a Y1.5 Arent there other vaults that don't require the forward landing? I assume they also come with challenges of their own. I guess it also helps explain why many coming out of JO or even elite do not compete these in college.

Still somewhat surprised that it has taken 6 years or so for a college team to seem to gather enough vaulters for a full line-up
 
  • Like
Reactions: JBS

JBS

Staff member
Gold Membership
Coach
Proud Parent
Sep 3, 2005
7,301
Wisconsin
Here's a good one that every coach can imagine.

Make a tower about 1.5 to 2 feet higher than the vault table and ask all of your 1.5 vaulters to do a layout 1/2 stick contest off of it.

Here's the comment from 1/2 of them...

What... he wants us to do 1/2 twists... we can't do those... that's like pure death. I can only do 1.5's.

Guess what... the better the vault... the higher it gets... the more the last part of it just drops out of the sky and feels like a simple 1/2 twist.
 
Last edited:

gym_dad32608

Proud Parent
Aug 7, 2018
365
53
This leads us back to the "power training" and "air sense".

You can't spot the landing if you are too low. If a gymnast can simulate the skill on trampoline and such... then with power they will get it. The power can convert into height so it feels the same.
This is where I think judging gets a little weird to me, because I have definitely seen different 1.5 with height and distance which I assume is a correlation to power. Shouldnt there be deductions for that?
 

JBS

Staff member
Gold Membership
Coach
Proud Parent
Sep 3, 2005
7,301
Wisconsin
Still somewhat surprised that it has taken 6 years or so for a college team to seem to gather enough vaulters for a full line-up

Totally.

However... athletes have been trained for years now to "scoop" the roundoff for a Yurchenko vault. Pull the feet through and "go backwards".

That's more beginner vault.

The more power and athlete has the more angle they can have. The athletes are on the board for a long time while it goes down and up. Focus should not be on "going back"... it should be on pushing the board down with as many springs as possible so it throws you both up and back into a double or triple flipping motion as it comes back up.

Look at this impact... not much "scoop" here...

Screen Shot 2022-02-13 at 11.34.40 AM.png
 

JBS

Staff member
Gold Membership
Coach
Proud Parent
Sep 3, 2005
7,301
Wisconsin
This is where I think judging gets a little weird to me, because I have definitely seen different 1.5 with height and distance which I assume is a correlation to power. Shouldnt there be deductions for that?

It's just so subjective... but I believe that the higher and floatier ones should score higher.
 

gymgal

Gold Membership
Proud Parent
Aug 22, 2008
4,655
Still somewhat surprised that it has taken 6 years or so for a college team to seem to gather enough vaulters for a full line-up
We are 3 years out of JO but I do not recall seeing more than a few 1.5 vaults at our major meets and at regionals. I know back then, the thought process was that the risk of deductions was not worth it when the gymnasts could nail the fulls. Is this changing in L10? Are you seeing more girls competing the 1.5? For the lower top tier teams, I also think it is related whether they can afford to use a spot for specialists versus having 3 or 4 event gymnasts who have solid yurchenko full vaults.
 

JBS

Staff member
Gold Membership
Coach
Proud Parent
Sep 3, 2005
7,301
Wisconsin
We are 3 years out of JO but I do not recall seeing more than a few 1.5 vaults at our major meets and at regionals. I know back then, the thought process was that the risk of deductions was not worth it when the gymnasts could nail the fulls. Is this changing in L10? Are you seeing more girls competing the 1.5? For the lower top tier teams, I also think it is related whether they can afford to use a spot for specialists versus having 3 or 4 event gymnasts who have solid yurchenko full vaults.

Good question... I know we are in no rush in my daughter's case. She just ran a 9.7 with a Yurchenko full.
 

gym_dad32608

Proud Parent
Aug 7, 2018
365
53
In JO a Y full is a 10 SV right? And is a Y1.5 a 10.1 SV? And then for elite, doing a Y1.5 is probably a downgraded vault? So it would seem that the Y1.5 is kinda in limbo as far as a vault that gets consistently trained by athletes that make up the college ranks. I mean if you are a level 10 in JO why compete a Y1.5 other than because you want to? And if you are an elite, you certainly arent going to do a "down graded" vault? Which then points to college teams that can develop an athlete to do that vault. All interesting stuff.
 

gymgal

Gold Membership
Proud Parent
Aug 22, 2008
4,655
In JO a Y full is a 10 SV right? And is a Y1.5 a 10.1 SV? And then for elite, doing a Y1.5 is probably a downgraded vault? So it would seem that the Y1.5 is kinda in limbo as far as a vault that gets consistently trained by athletes that make up the college ranks. I mean if you are a level 10 in JO why compete a Y1.5 other than because you want to? And if you are an elite, you certainly arent going to do a "down graded" vault? Which then points to college teams that can develop an athlete to do that vault. All interesting stuff.
Well, consistently competing a 1.5 in L10 will get you noticed and likely recruited by the college coaches.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

New Posts