WAG Concerns re future potential level 4 child

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Krisztina10

Proud Parent
I'm been reading this forum for 3 years and it's been so helpful. This is my first post and I hope some of the very knowledgeable parents, coaches, and gymnasts can provide some feedback. Sorry in advance for the long post...

Daughter started level 3 age 6 - was pushed onto team instead of preteam even though she didn't have all her skills, including robhs. Never qualified to states. Repeated level 3 and maxed out at like a 35.5 AA. Excellent on beam (medaled at states); fine bars; bad on vault; super on floor...except still had weak robhs. Took her a long time to get the skill because of fear issues. She just missed an AA medal at States.

Competed level 4 this year (she's in third grade) but had very unlucky season - thumb/hand injury kept her out, then tonsils and adenoid surgery, random illness; MCL sprain. She's missing states. Had been out sick before each meet or just back from surgery - no meet could be called representative. Putting info from 3 meets she did together - her best scores were beam (9.6); bars (8.4); floor (8.9); vault (8.2). Had she been in more of the season I think again she would have topped out at a 35.5.

She got her tonsils and adenoids out b/c she was a total mouth breather and her airways were blocked. Dr. said didn't know how she functioned. We're 6 weeks out of surgery and am hoping this improves her athleticism.

Her strengths are that she's very flexible (shoulders, back, etc); works hard; is strong - mentally and physically. Weaknesses - more hesitant than other kids - it was not until 2 weeks ago that she was brave enough to do a standing BHS at home on a mat. And this took soooooo much courage on her part. Which can't be normal for a level 4. She also doesn't exhibit speed and power on floor and vault. But I am not sure if it's b/c she's slow twitch or if there's mental hesitation stuff going on. I would think this less likely on floor. Her fhs is fine and good. As a normal kid out of the gym, she seems relatively quick and athletic. But hard to know for sure.

I know there are girls who don't excel till optionals but it sounds like that happens with kids who are bad at details, precise dance, etc. but have power and strong skills. She's great at the compulsory dance stuff. And beautiful on beam.

She's at a top optionals gym nut I'm not sure how good the compulsory coaching is. I'm frustrated they haven't taught her a solid bhs or robhs yet. They don't focus much on the standing ones. On both she undercuts which makes her legs go apart and bend some. But again she can still score low 9's...but still. At level 4 she should have a solid solid bhs, no? And she is so not good on vault. The run is weak as is the punch. Her current bars coach is not good at teaching the kip either.

Does the fact that she's only great on beam and struggles with the power and speed right now mean this isn't going to go anywhere for her? Or can these things come with time? Her coaches are happy with her...think she could go all the way; but I don't know if I trust them. I'd be happy to pm anyone a video.

ANY advice would be MUCH appreciated. I just want to start steering her to other interests if she's not going to succeed down the line. Kids specialize in other sports so early and I don't want her to miss out later.

THANK YOU!
 
Your reason for having her in gymnastics should not be for her success in placements and levels. Success comes in many other forms- learning to deal with disappointment, work ethic, time management and the many other things that can be learned from gymnastics.
Yes encourage her to develop other interests as gymnastics does not last forever, but do not encourage her to leave gymnastics for another activity that she does not enjoy as much because she is not progressing at the rate that you had hoped.
She is young it will come with time, if she is having fun and there are no safety concerns with the gym, let it be.
 
Why does she have to "succeed" in any sport, and what do you mean by the word anyway? What do you mean by all the way- are you thinking Olympics? College? L10? For me, all the way just means sticking with it until they graduate HS, through thick and thin.

My DD just last weekend won 1st at her T&T meet at L6 tumbling- RO6BHS and RO3BHSBT- and she still would not do a standing BHS at home on a mat. No way, no how. For her, safety means doing gym at the gym and nowhere else. And she had a block on BHS for a year and then another on BT for the whole next year. They are still far from perfect but she's still trucking. My kids are also both hesitant (and that's an understatement) learning new skills. The skills still come eventually.

I can feel your worry coming through, and I can honestly say I don't understand it. Have her coaches expressed displeasure with her? Have they mentioned she isn't a good fit for the gym or program? If they haven't, I would sit back and let her progress at her own pace- she sounds pretty determined and amazing to me. She's been through a lot so far and keeps going back. That's success too.
 
Your reason for having her in gymnastics should not be for her success in placements and levels. Success comes in many other forms- learning to deal with disappointment, work ethic, time management and the many other things that can be learned from gymnastics.
Yes encourage her to develop other interests as gymnastics does not last forever, but do not encourage her to leave gymnastics for another activity that she does not enjoy as much because she is not progressing at the rate that you had hoped.
She is young it will come with time, if she is having fun and there are no safety concerns with the gym, let it be.
Thanks! I definitely have no interest in pulling her or telling her to stop until SHE wants to. I love what gymnastics has done for her and she's not doing it to succeed. But I also as a parent want to set her up for success and steer her to things she will succeed in. If she stops at 14 and has got nothing else to turn to, that will be a big blow to her. I think a sense of a kids potential in a sport is good to have.
 
Short Stack was moved to level 4 at age 9 (skipping level 3) in September of '15, before she had her ROBHS. She had her ROBHSBHS (but it was UGLY!) in time for her first meet that December.

Her teammates had a whole level 3 season of ROBHS, so adding the second BHS wasn't a big deal, and soon they were training ROBHSBT while Short Stack was struggling.

This fall, teammates were polishing that ROBHSBT, and Short Stack didn't even have it yet.

It wasn't until a meet two weeks ago that she landed it in competition without touching her hands to the ground.

My point with this long rambling story is that when they start a new level without a skill, they are behind the game and playing catch up. She probably WILL catch up. It's just taking more time than you thought.
 
Why does she have to "succeed" in any sport, and what do you mean by the word anyway? What do you mean by all the way- are you thinking Olympics? College? L10? For me, all the way just means sticking with it until they graduate HS, through thick and thin.

My DD just last weekend won 1st at her T&T meet at L6 tumbling- RO6BHS and RO3BHSBT- and she still would not do a standing BHS at home on a mat. No way, no how. For her, safety means doing gym at the gym and nowhere else. And she had a block on BHS for a year and then another on BT for the whole next year. They are still far from perfect but she's still trucking. My kids are also both hesitant (and that's an understatement) learning new skills. The skills still come eventually.

I can feel your worry coming through, and I can honestly say I don't understand it. Have her coaches expressed displeasure with her? Have they mentioned she isn't a good fit for the gym or program? If they haven't, I would sit back and let her progress at her own pace- she sounds pretty determined and amazing to me. She's been through a lot so far and keeps going back. That's success too.
Thanks! That's super helpful re your daughter's experience in tumbling and fears.

I agree with what you're saying. And what others have said re not being in it to win etc. What is success? You're right that I'm not sure. I think doing it through HS would be great. Level 10? 9? The thing with gym though is that it takes up sooooo much time. There's a big opportunity cost there. So I do think parents need to think about whether their kids are cut out for the sport. She spends 15 hrs at the gym and its only going to increase. Other kids on her team do traveling soccer, dance, etc. She doesn't want to b/c she says gym already takes up so much time. With that and school I don't feel comfortable pushing her into other things. And then there's missed vacations and family time. So I'm concerned about a situation where she has to stop and then has nothing else to turn to. If I knew she had less potential - I would be more aggressive in making her try other things, particularly in the summer. Last summer it was soccer. She didn't like it. Though she was quite good.
 
Short Stack was moved to level 4 at age 9 (skipping level 3) in September of '15, before she had her ROBHS. She had her ROBHSBHS (but it was UGLY!) in time for her first meet that December.

Her teammates had a whole level 3 season of ROBHS, so adding the second BHS wasn't a big deal, and soon they were training ROBHSBT while Short Stack was struggling.

This fall, teammates were polishing that ROBHSBT, and Short Stack didn't even have it yet.

It wasn't until a meet two weeks ago that she landed it in competition without touching her hands to the ground.

My point with this long rambling story is that when they start a new level without a skill, they are behind the game and playing catch up. She probably WILL catch up. It's just taking more time than you thought.
Thanks! And good for her to getting straight to level 4. Wow. They impressive me to no end when they get out there without skills totally down and even when others are well ahead of them. The drive, confidence, and willingness to work hard is amazing. I have so much respect for them. Congrats to her for landing the skill at the meet. Hope she felt great about herself.
 
She's in Level 4...so much is hard to know about her future in gymnastics. There are tons of kids who do great in L4 and peter out a couple levels later. There are kids who barely make it through L4 and then start scoring well at the higher levels. We just don't know. Her coaches might be able to predict more accurately - but they may not.

Your concerns seem to be mainly about her tumbling and vault. These are definitely skills that take a long time to learn and perfect - especially vault. Why do you think we spend several years doing the same dang FHS vault? And no, she shouldn't necessarily have a good standing BHS at L4. In fact, having a good standing BHS on floor isn't really important - it is important on beam, but she has plenty of time before she will need to compete that. Maybe she will make huge improvements on floor and vault...maybe they'll never be on par with her other events.

You said you don't want her to quit at 14 and be left with nothing. She may quit (at 14, or at a different time) whether or not she is successful at competitions. She may want to do something else, or have too many injuries, or simply age out of the sport. The thing about gymnastics is eventually she will quit, because most gymnasts don't continue after high school or college. But she won't be left with nothing - there are so many interesting, useful, growth-inspiring things to do and learn other than one sport. For example, after I aged out of gymnastics I felt like I was left with nothing but I was also excited to try other things...dance classes, committing more to school, learning to sew, learning to paint, getting my first job, etc.
 
I think you may need to readjust your perception of "success". My dd (level 4, age 9) may potentially always be a 35.5 gymnast. She is not a risk taker and not super powerful. She has to work harder at picking up skills and is often last on her team to get them. But gosh darn it she loves it. Day after day she plugs away, working her butt off for little external reward. Each year more girls from her team quit gymnastics, girls that picked it up fast, were at the top of the podium. And yet, here she still is. Her passion for gymnastics is clear and I would never dissuade her from it because she's not meeting *my* expectations. I am SO proud of her. The life lessons she's learning are immeasurable.

If your dd is still loving it, leave her be. Whether she repeats level 4, never scores above a 35.5, or never sees optionals, you can still consider her gymnastics journey a success.
 
I think we have twin children. :) It's very strange to read such an accurate description of my own child- only it's not- down the events and the reluctance to do BHS on a mat!

We've been playing catch up ALL season at L4 (she was sick a lot in the fall and lost all of her bar skills and her ROBHSBHS before her first meet).

She has learned SO much this year and worked so unbelievably hard- so IMHO no matter how long her gymnastics career goes or whether she's first or last, it's been worth all of it. She went from a 28.something AA to a 32.6 six weeks later- and not because of drastically different scoring. That's a whole lotta mental and physical work from a 9 year old.

I guess what I'm saying is- try not to borrow tomorrow's trouble. If you have a major issue with how your gym is teaching her, then look elsewhere, but otherwise, don't read into what this or that means. My kid could not (literally) get onto the bars one week out from her first meet. Her first meet, she scored a 5- something. Two meets ago, she was the first kid on her team to finish top three on any event for the whole season...on BARS. She had the highest bar score on her team. Three months ago her goal for the year was to break 7. You just do not know what the future holds, and as long as you have coaches who care about your kid and are willing to work with her, and a kid who wants to be there, is working hard, and making progress at her OWN speed, keep on keeping on, as far as I'm concerned. And I know that's not easy at ALL.

Success is how you define it. My DD left her first few meets in tears. Her goals for the season became just qualifying for sectionals, let alone states, and meeting some very low event goals. At her third meet, when she finally got her skills back, she warmed up floor and I just looked at my DH and said "She's back!" Her first medal meant so much to her this year. I seriously tear up when I think of her sweet happy (and shocked!) little face when they finally called her name at her 5th meet of the season. She did qualify for states. I would be shocked if she medals. But this year has been MORE than a success, it's been nothing short of amazing. And her recognizing that has been a journey, but she's getting there. :)
 
Thanks! That's super helpful re your daughter's experience in tumbling and fears.

I agree with what you're saying. And what others have said re not being in it to win etc. What is success? You're right that I'm not sure. I think doing it through HS would be great. Level 10? 9? The thing with gym though is that it takes up sooooo much time. There's a big opportunity cost there. So I do think parents need to think about whether their kids are cut out for the sport. She spends 15 hrs at the gym and its only going to increase. Other kids on her team do traveling soccer, dance, etc. She doesn't want to b/c she says gym already takes up so much time. With that and school I don't feel comfortable pushing her into other things. And then there's missed vacations and family time. So I'm concerned about a situation where she has to stop and then has nothing else to turn to. If I knew she had less potential - I would be more aggressive in making her try other things, particularly in the summer. Last summer it was soccer. She didn't like it. Though she was quite good.

I get what your saying and it's not really unreasonable. My girls are at their gym upwards of 24 hours per week. It decimates our family free time. It swallows our budget- really if people knew what percentage of our family income goes to gym they would have me committed. Eventually though, she'll choose to try other things..something will pique her interest.

My ODD always thought she would NEVER miss a huge amount of time in gym over the summer. She's been forced to miss 2-3 weeks per summer (completely out of her control) and has always been broken up about it. Then she was presented with the opportunity to study in Italy and suddenly a month off gym is feasible- desirable even. My kids have no expectations of reaching upper optionals though. It's just not in the cards for them. They're also much older- they started a few years older than your DD is right now..So maybe a different perspective.

I will say this- when their hours were 6..12..20- even 30+... they still found time for other activities. If they hadn't wanted to, though, I would've been content. They pour enough into this one thing that I can let it be enough, and I know that if they ever stop they'll be able to find something else constructive to do with their time.
 
I haven't read the posts above... I should, but I'm already procrastinating work things I really need to be doing.

I might be your daughter as a grown up. I have huge mental blocks at times... without going into this too deep, or making it all about me, I can pull out a gymnastics comparison. I have been "able" to do a ROBH for at least two years. But I'm still "working" on it and am overcoming hesitancy, self doubt and little whispering fears that I know are silly. Sometimes on the days I'm going to class I can feel the doubts coming around to settle in.

She needs to keep at it, for her future self. She will learn what it feels like to keep going back and working, even if the gains are small and peppered by back slides. It's good for her not to quit at this point. As long as there is a love or a willingness to continue coming from her, keeping at it is a good thing. Even if there aren't concrete rewards for her sitting on the bookshelf, there are more important rewards for her psyche coming.

One of my sons is a lot like me in the head. Oh, was it tough for me to not wonder, "should I steer him to quit? I know I shouldn't. He needs to work through this. He may never be great, but he can't give up when it's something he does like beneath all the fear and frustration and feelings. This *is* the right thing to do, right?" At those points I'd confess to my husband and he'd back up that we were doing the right thing. Soon enough something would happen or the kid would say something that buoyed the decision.

Hang in there, both of you. Manage yours and her expectations and it'll be for good benefit in the end.
 
If she is enjoying it more than not, then try not to worry about it. My kid has frequently been "behind" her friends in development. They have moved up levels more quickly than her and it has been hard, but she loves the sport so she stays with it.

At lower levels, she was always weakest on vault, but when she moved to L8 last year, she became one of our stronger vaulters. She has always been weaker on floor (and still is). She struggled with bars and giants for 2+ years (holding her back levels when others were moving up.) Last year she took silver on bars at states and she has consistently placed top 3 on bars at every meet this year.

If we had gotten too caught up in her not being the superstar of the team or "keeping up" with her peers, she might have been out of this sport several years ago.

And regarding "what if she changes her mind at 14" --- well, that can happen. And it can be tough to get into some sports then, but from what I've seen, gymnasts are a VERY resilient bunch. We've had girls drop the sport in 7-9th grade for a variety of reasons (interest, money, mental blocks, injury) and they all seem to go on to find a new passion and something to excel in. Because of the mental grit gymnastics demands and because they have prepared themselves physically and mentally to be so tough, they find a way to go on and love new things.
 
Oh yeah and BTW-
I can't tell you how many kids who whiz by compulsories scooping up countless medals all of sudden- quit when it gets hard at L6 orL7. They were not accustomed to the challenge....
The kids that fight for it early one, welcome the challenge when they are mature and ready.
 
It seems odd you would be at a top optionals gym but the coaches "aren't good" at teaching kips or back handsprings. That would be very unusual. Is it a really large team or do they have different homeschool groups or something?

No matter what drills and curriculum are used, kids will still progress at their own rate somewhat. It sounds like she is getting better - I think you should compare to where she was last year.

Btw I'm not being totally skeptical - I think they should work on standing back handsprings, my kids do only standing back handsprings practically, but it is a little weird so I'm just wondering if you're sure it's like that or maybe when your daughter had to miss practices she missed some stuff? I think her scores are good for the kind of issues you described - she obviously had the basic skills down. It seems reasonable to assume she would have scored higher with full participation.

I've seen the phenomenon you described but usually the gym has two groups of compulsories and the top optionals are coming out of the "select" one or something. I've also seen it where the gym is huge and has huge compulsory groups, so I guess numbers are just on their side of kids who will improve when moving to optionals. It doesn't sound like your gym has either of those things and that they seem to suggest your daughter would be on the optionals track - so I think they will work with her on what she needs?
 
Here is how you can determine if she will be successful: is she a hard worker and long to be at the gym training the boring stuff and not cheating? Does she tell you how much she loves it? Does she treat her teammates with kindness and compassion? Is she respectful to her coach? Is she making her best effort? If you can answer yes she will be. If you look at physical attributes to who can do what at what age many of us parents here would say why bother. I was looking for a book to buy my daughter for her birthday this month and it talked about a gymnast who won worlds at 11 shooting for the 2016 Olympics. I had never heard of her.
There are girls who are 11 training elite. Gymnastics is challenging and very competitive and if you try to look at the end result now, well it just would make you sad. But that doesn't mean it should not be attempted because she is years behind others etc. Gym teaches perseverance, hard work ethic, time management, teamwork, how to handle stage fright and adversity etc.
I wish I had a crystal ball as well but I had to learn to let it go. My DD could be training lvl 7 in a couple months but has developed a fear of BWO on beam. Kids who are 10, 11, 12 that are elite can have a career ending injury.
I say the kid who keep showing up and making an effort is the kid you want. Once you get to optionals the naturals have to work just as hard as those who are not. And those who have been working on it do have the advantage from that prospective. My DD is naturally strong. Bars is her Favorite but the learning comes slow and she really works for every skill. I will be sad the day she gives up gymnastics but will be thrilled with all of lifes little lessons it gave her along the way.
 
My kid is a level 7.
She would never do a bhs at home. In her mind that is not a safe place to do one.
She won't do one in public either. Gym is gym. I get it. And am glad honestly. I think it sounds like she is doing fine. She just had a rash of bad luck. Hopefully this season will be more successful for her! :)
 

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