WAG Confused about twisting direction

[suebee]

I searched and read the threads about this, but I am still confused as a former gymnast who never made it to twisting!

My dd is what I believe is a gymnastics lefty. She roundoffs lefty (left hand down first), left leg front split is easier than right leg front split, BWO and BHS SO have left leg go over first. She does a full turn to the left on her left foot.

That being said, I think she’s probably more ambidextrous than most. I have seen her get her steps mixed up on the FHS vault and hurdle with her right leg (right leg goes up and then both legs go down together onto springboard) and she says this to her feels about the same as hurdling her usual way with her left leg up. Hurdling with the “wrong” leg didn’t really look much different for her.

She is working on twisting and half pirouettes on bars. She says the coach told all of them to twist which ever way is more comfortable for them. DD says she’s tried twisting both ways and they seem about the same to her, so she doesn’t have an obvious preference.

That being the case, it is unclear to me which direction it is “better” for her to twist. I read the past threads and some seem to indicate that left RO should twist left (meaning, I think, that you are turning counter clockwise) but others seems to indicate that a left RO is right twisting, so you should twist right.

I don’t know whether I am just getting the left/right twisting terminology mixed up, because to me, a left RO seems to twist left.

Can anyone help me clarify? Thanks.

 

[John]

I do not understand the twist either. I have watched DD in slow motion but only cause I saw her coaches doing it. While even watching in slow motion it is hard to see the details for this old man. I beleive my DD is a leftie as well.

 

[trampolinemom]

A test that was done with my kid who was also comfortable both ways, was to let him lay flat on his stomach facing away and when a sound was made, get up as quickly as he could, turn around and run the other way. Repeat, (to see if they stick with it) and the way they turn is supposed to mean something in twisting direction. (But don't ask me what exactly)

 

[InbarSquirrel]

My DD is ambidextrous too with twisting/blind changes/bar pirouette - for instance on the floor she'll twist one direction but then on the tumble track another; bars she has figured which direction feels/looks the best but once in a while forgets and goes in the other direction.

Sorry I have nothing to add other than my DD does it too.

 

[Jard.the.gymnast]

Heck, I have teammates twisting one way for a half and the other for a full or more. Problems you can have with mixed up twisting :
1. Spotting. Coach doesn't want to get kicked in the face and need to know where to stand.
2. Getting lost in the air.
3. Never twisting out of a Roundoff only.

So let her pick one side and stick with it. Since she turns to the left, she also probably will twist left

 

[Annikins]

So there is no real rule to this then? I didn't realise that - my dd does ro as a rightie, but then does a full spin on floor and beam on her left foot (her right spin is really not great). She has been told which way to twist by her coach (only just starting preps for it really), and I think that she said to go right, to match the ro, even though dd seems to spin a lot easier on the left...

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Not to confuse the issue but the actual left roundoff is actually twisting right . Anyways your DD should probably find left twisting the proper direction . But I have seen exceptions !

 

[suebee]

Not to confuse the issue but the actual left roundoff is actually twisting right . Anyways your DD should probably find left twisting the proper direction . But I have seen exceptions !

Thanks.

To make sure I understand, does twisting left mean you are turning to your left?

Because I still don’t get how a left RO twists right! It seems like it is twisting left?!?

 

[auscoachgymmum]

Not to confuse the issue but the actual left roundoff is actually twisting right . Anyways your DD should probably find left twisting the proper direction . But I have seen exceptions !

This is completely true!! And confusing. For kids that can twist both ways, it doesn't really become a huge issue until they are looking at doing multiple rotations, eg: half in, full out kind of thing. It is helpful if you can get their tumble twisting always going the same way, as it leads to less confusion later on. It is a hard one to understand though. There are some good short explanations on you tube, if you google, "gymnastics twisting directions" etc.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Following! Puma Jr is also quasi-ambidextrous, which has been problematic in the past. I’m glad I’m not the only one it confuses!

 

[wordsmith]

Thanks.

To make sure I understand, does twisting left mean you are turning to your left?

Because I still don’t get how a left RO twists right! It seems like it is twisting left?!?

Maybe try to orient your brain by looking at it this way: Rather than bending forward to put the hands on the floor (left hand 1st, right hand 2nd with chest facing to the right during the cartwheel phase), remain standing upright and make the round off hands in the air (like to the ceiling instead of the floor). You can do it either with your left foot lunging in front or with your feet together. Notice how your chest is turning to the right?

This sometimes messes with people's brains as well when thinking blind turn direction and pirouetting and which direction they're actually turning in.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Maybe try to orient your brain by looking at it this way: Rather than bending forward to put the hands on the floor (left hand 1st, right hand 2nd with chest facing to the right during the cartwheel phase), remain standing upright and make the round off hands in the air (like to the ceiling instead of the floor). You can do it either with your left foot lunging in front or with your feet together. Notice how your chest is turning to the right?

This sometimes messes with people's brains as well when thinking blind turn direction and pirouetting and which direction they're actually turning in.

You get 50
Gold stars for your explanation!

 

[fuzi]

Maybe try to orient your brain by looking at it this way: Rather than bending forward to put the hands on the floor (left hand 1st, right hand 2nd with chest facing to the right during the cartwheel phase), remain standing upright and make the round off hands in the air (like to the ceiling instead of the floor). You can do it either with your left foot lunging in front or with your feet together. Notice how your chest is turning to the right?

This is the best explanation I have ever read. Thank you!

 

[suebee]

Maybe try to orient your brain by looking at it this way: Rather than bending forward to put the hands on the floor (left hand 1st, right hand 2nd with chest facing to the right during the cartwheel phase), remain standing upright and make the round off hands in the air (like to the ceiling instead of the floor). You can do it either with your left foot lunging in front or with your feet together. Notice how your chest is turning to the right?

This sometimes messes with people's brains as well when thinking blind turn direction and pirouetting and which direction they're actually turning in.

I watched some YouTube videos and read this explanation again, and now I understand the definition of the twisting direction. Thank you!

That being said, the reason this is so confusing is that I thought that twisting in a direction was determined by which way your shoulders turn.

The video I watched explained twisting direction as being defined as determined by whether you see the back or stomach first, depending on which side of the gymnast you are standing on. So if you stand on a gymnast’s right and she is left twisting, you see her back first. If you stand on her left and she is left twisting, you see her stomach first. If the gymnast is starting standing up, this makes total sense to me.

But this definition means that when a gymnast is starting upside down, like in handstand, to twist in the same direction as standing up, the shoulders actually go the other direction!?!? That is what seems very confusing to me.

The example the video used was not the roundoff (the video said roundoff is not actually a twisting skill and as a result doesn’t have a twisting direction - but the above definition is very similar to what you said about the roundoff and can be applied to it as well), but instead used a handstand half pirouette on floor. Because the gymnast is upside down in handstand to start, per the above definition, for the gymnast to twist in the same direction as standing up, her shoulders are actually going the other direction as when she is standing up?!?! That is the part I find very confusing, or counterintuitive.

Unlike my dd, I have a definite strong preference to twist my shoulders to the left. But this means that if I were to do a handstand half pirouette on floor or bars (which would never, ever happen in reality!), I would want to turn my shoulders to the left, or the same direction as if I were starting standing, but by this definition, I’d be twisting to the right, but if I were doing a full (again, would never, ever happen in reality!), I’d want to keep my shoulders turning to the left, which would be left twisting. That is what is really confusing to me!

I would imagine that most people who have a strong preference to twist in a certain direction (which my dd does not have) would then want to twist their shoulders in the same direction when starting standing or upside down, but this by definition would be considered twisting in opposite directions, and what I’ve read is that the twisting direction is supposed to be the same, whichever direction you pick to twist.

Interestingly, my dd said she has a slight preference for the direction of the half pirouette on bars, which is to twist her shoulders to the left, or a right twist, but she thinks that is because she is more comfortable with the arms (having only her left arm on the bar while her body twists instead of the reverse) than the actual direction of the twist. She says that for a full, because it doesn’t have any arms on the ground, she thinks it’s about the same for her twisting both ways, and she says she sometimes twists one way and sometimes twists the other way for the full, trying to figure out which is more comfortable for her. But she’s determined that they’re about the same.

I wonder whether she should just pick one direction to twist for her full and be consistent with it.

So given that she roundoffs left but has a preference to twist right (turn her shoulders left) for her half pirouette, and feels equal about the direction for twisting her full, is it preferable to twist her full to the right or left?

 

[suebee]

Someone mentioned above that twisting direction matters if you want to twist directly out of a roundoff. Which direction do you need to twist to twist out of a left roundoff?

The reason I ask is that dd has RO BT and RO BLO dismounts off beam. I see some girls at the gym who do RO some type of twisting dismount off the beam. I’m wondering if that may be something she may want to have as an option in the future, and since she doesn’t have an obvious preference for which way to twist, should she pick the way that would give her that as an option?

 

[Coach Z]

Someone mentioned above that twisting direction matters if you want to twist directly out of a roundoff. Which direction do you need to twist to twist out of a left roundoff?

If the gymnast’s left foot leads the round-off, twisting backwards to the left would be more natural.

I like to think of twisting direction in terms of board sports, frontside or backside. That is because gymnasts and coaches get confused with all the references to left and right. Left foot in front would be considered “regular” stance, and the dominate twist direction would be left or “frontside.” I feel that the confusion comes from round-offs and learning front twisting and barani. A “regular” (l) round off is a “backside” skill, meaning it twists right. If gymnasts learn their front twisting backside (r), but twist frontside (l) for back twisting, they risk getting confused and balking in double flipping and twisting skills. I’d say most gymnasts do all twisting “frontside” and that the roundoff and maybe handstand pirouettes will be their only “backside” skills. That’s how I teach it. But if athletes are stuck doing a skill a certain way, I just need to remember that they like doing the skill “backside.”

 

[John]

Help a guy out. I have read this multiple times, I think she is twisting to the right is that correct?

 

[suebee]

I’m still not sure that I understand the above about frontside and backside either. My brain is hurting!

I guess my point of confusion was that I am pretty sure I have read that a gymnast should always twist the same direction. Maybe this is not actually the rule and this is why I am confused.

But the twisting definition means that twisting in a direction is different, depending on whether you are starting standing up or starting upside down, if you turn your shoulders in the same direction.

So maybe my more simple question is that will my dd have any problems if she roundsoffs left (which is twisting right), does a full twisting left, and does a handstand half pirouette twisting right? All of which get her shoulders twisting to the left, so to me, it makes sense to do it that way, but it seems to break the twisting in the same direction all the time rule.

Dd has not done any front twisting skills yet, as far as I know, so I don’t think that’s come up at all.

 

[John]

@suebee you just blew my mind when talking front twisting.

 

[suebee]

John, I think she is twisting left. She roundoffs left and twists left. But I defer to the experts to tell us!

My mind is also blown! I am so confused.