Parents Consistency of Judging and Scores

[atlnon]

We are new to competitive gymnastics. My 8 year old DD started competing Xcel Silver this January after several years in pre-team. Now that we have 3 meets under our belt, I'm wondering if and how much you can compare the scores from one meet to another. From what I've read, the advice is to focus on how she's improving from one meet to the next rather on how she performed compared to other gymnasts or if she got a medal. My question is if we can use her score from one meet to the next as a benchmark for how she's progressing. After just 3 meets, it feels like the score is dependent on the judge (how strict the judge is). The judging and scoring seems to be very consistent for a given session, but is not from one meet to another, or even from one session to another in the same meet. For example, in one of our meets, my daughter's team was split in 2 different sessions. The scores of the girls in one sessions were consistently lower than the other group, even though the talent was evenly distributed and the girls scores in the similar range when grouped together in the other meets.

 

[Sasha]

Your observation is correct. Scoring can be quite varied. The exact same routine might score an 8.9 by one judge on one day, and a 9.3 by another judge on a different day. And don't even get the Chalkbucket started about variance between judging in different States and Regions - lol.

I'd say varying up to around .3-.4 between meets/judges is very normal, so within that range, you can't accurately say which routine was actually 'better' just by the scores.

I've definitely seen my DD be scored 'generously' on one day and 'critically' on another.

Judges, as individuals, have their own preferences for what they find most important in a routine. They have a range of deductions they can take on many elements, and they will assign deductions based on their own interpretation and priorities. Most of our girls' meets have 2 judges, and the girl receives the average score of the 2 judges. The judges must also be within a certain range of each other's score or they have to discuss and come to an agreement before assigning the final score. I occasionally get the score card with the original scores, and have seen a few wide variations, though most are within .2 of each other. When we only have 1 judge, that's when we often start to get some crazy variation from previous meets! A routine that regularly scored 9.0-9.1 is now suddenly a 9.6... or an 8.6.. lol.

 

[Gymmommy71]

I think the same meet from year to year is a better judge than meet to meet in the same season. I associate a "scoring reputation" w/ each individual meet because usally scoring fluctuates w/ the calibur of the other gyms in attendance and that usually will stay pretty steady year after year as long as the meet is well established. Like I have some meets that I use as markers for tough scoring, some that I use as markers for easy scoring, some that I use for similar to states scoring, etc. NOTE - this is all useful when comparing gyms as well - like a 37 at one meet isn't as impressive as a 35 at another and so on .

This is obviously hard to do your very first year competing, but one way to handle would be to look at what the top and bottom scores were in your daughters level last year and see how she ranks. Another idea for the first year using a single season's meets is placement w/in her level and how far away from the top score she is per event - like if the top bars score was a 9.1 at her first meet, and she got an 8.1 and was in the middle of the scores, but then at her second meet the top score was an 8.5 and she got the same 8.1 but was in the top 20% of scores, then I would consider that "improvement".

 

[skschlag]

I think the best way to determine progress has nothing to do with score. My ds' pommel routine has gone down each meet he has competed it, but the execution is actually improving. Improvement should be based on how she felt about a routine, did she hit a certain skill, is she making progress toward new skills. These are all better benchmarks for how she is doing than any score. For an example, my ds scored lower on his pommel this week because he fell. However, he made his new dismount so he was quite ecstatic!

 

[cadybearsmommy]

I think you are correct that scoring can vary a lot from meet to meet. Scoring also seems to get higher as the season goes on (or is the the gymnasts getting better? lol). But seriously, we have had some big ranges this year in scoring from meet to meet with seemingly near identical routines. Some of these ranges were a half point or more difference. It can be frustrating to go to a meet, get a certain score and then go to the next one and get over a half point lower with a routine that looked equally as good or better as the first one. My dd competed bronze last year and scores seemed a little more consistent in that level (she is XS this year like your dd). But as they go up and compete harder skills, it seems there is a lot more room for variation. And we've already started noticing who the "tough" judges are around here b/c we see a lot of the same ones. But it goes both ways, my dd has also gotten scores I thought were a little generous as well. Good luck to your dd in the rest of her season!

 

[raenndrops]

Our most recent meet, most of the Xcel Gold, L5, L6, and L7s got personal best vault scores.
One Gold went from 8.45 to 9.10 on vault! I think it was the judge... after the L3 session had rough vault scoring, the vault scores were awesome

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Regarding scores they are relative. My daughter recently got her lowest bar score of the season numericaly. And placed first. She had not placed first all season on bars. Yet her number was lowest. Personally to me they were her best all year.

However, this was a very low scoring bar overall.

And there have been meets where her number seems high yet, not a good day regarding how the routine went. But again you can see it in placement.

Really regarding the kids on our team we all have a sense of how they do, we all have a sense of how we compare to other gyms, and its rather consistant even if the numbers change.

So as you keep on, you will see and get a feel for where your kid typically is in the pack and number wise.

But really its about what they are doing as in skills. And are they improving. A number doesn't always tell you that. We just don't focus on scores or placement.

 

[atlnon]

After years of baseball and basketball with my son, it's quite frustrating trying to figure out what's happening in gymnastics and whether my DD is doing well or not. With baseball, either you get a hit and a run in or not, or whether you catch the ball and get the out or not. I have no clue what constitutes a good vault or bar routine in gymnastics (except that I know that falling off the bars or beam, and running into the vault table is not good). Like some other posters, something would look good to me and then be surprised that my DD did not get as high a score. We don't even know enough to be upset or disappointed, just bewildered. This is good in a way as our lack of knowledge causes us to let our DD own the activity and we just go to the meets and enjoy watching her. But I have to admit that I can't help but wonder what the other girls that scores 9.8 is doing differently than my DD. We make sure not to ask that question in front of my DD and other parents though (just a discussion between my wife and I).

Another related question. For those that does not understand the intricacies of gymnastics, do you just leave it up to the coach to deal with your kids on what they are not doing well and what they need to practice more? In baseball and basketball, the coaches normally tell us what my son is not doing right and needs to practice more at home (practice getting in front of ground balls or shoot more free throws at home). Is it different in gymnastics because they are not allowed to practice at home? Do we need to ask the coach what our DD is not doing right and needs to improve on? Or is blissful ignorance the best approach? I do ask my DD sometimes what she needs to do better. But I don't understand half of what she tells me...

 

[Deleted member 18037]

As you go to more and more meets you will be able to see the differences in routines. And while you may not know the difference in tenths, you will get how good it has to be for those 9.8, 9.9s.

I would ask the coach how she is doing because, well I like information and data.

And you might want ask what conditioning she could/should do at home.

It really is different then working on catching or hitting/kicking, it just is.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

We are new to competitive gymnastics. My 8 year old DD started competing Xcel Silver this January after several years in pre-team. Now that we have 3 meets under our belt, I'm wondering if and how much you can compare the scores from one meet to another. From what I've read, the advice is to focus on how she's improving from one meet to the next rather on how she performed compared to other gymnasts or if she got a medal. My question is if we can use her score from one meet to the next as a benchmark for how she's progressing. After just 3 meets, it feels like the score is dependent on the judge (how strict the judge is). The judging and scoring seems to be very consistent for a given session, but is not from one meet to another, or even from one session to another in the same meet. For example, in one of our meets, my daughter's team was split in 2 different sessions. The scores of the girls in one sessions were consistently lower than the other group, even though the talent was evenly distributed and the girls scores in the similar range when grouped together in the other meets.

no such thing as "consistency of judging and scores". it's an oxymoron. PLEASE ignore all that stuff and enjoy your daughter's gymnastics. if she brings it up? tell her it doesn't matter until she's a level 10. you'll both last longer and you will have hair that you haven't pulled out of your head.

 

[GYM0M]

Yes, ignorance is somewhat bliss and you should leave the 'coaching' to the coaches. However, strength and flexibility are ALWAYS something a gymnast can improve on so you could ask her coach for SAFE exercises she can do at home to improve. Some of the smallest things can make a huge difference. Just no practicing skills at home!! If you're curious about 9.8 routines, you can always use YouTube. In terms of deductions, I use the following list:
A fall=0.5
Steps on landing (greater than shoulder width)=0.3 per step
Steps on landings (less than shoulder width)=0.1
Bent or Flexed ANYTHING=0.1
Almost falling, large wobbles on beam, off balance on floor=0.3
Slight wobbles=0.1
This is not 100% accurate, but it gets the score pretty close. These are only a handful of the deductions. Very basic list.
Quantifying progress or improvement is almost impossible based on scores. Although, setting goals that are not based on placements or scores is a good way to note improvement. For instance, not falling during a meet, tighter legs, sticking dismounts, etc. The week before a meet, have your dd sit down and write out ONE correction her coach has given her on each apparatus and her goal could be to focus on fixing that correction.