WAG DD struggling, is it really worth it :-(

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J-Bo

Proud Parent
Hi, my DD is 7 and is training to Elite level in the UK. Her next competition is compulsory level 5 but there is a question mark as to whether she will be ready in time. Basically shortly after she started her gym trial nearly two years ago she came down with Whooping cough but it was undiagnosed to she suffered for three very long months with horrific bouts of coughing. Weirdly this has really impacted on her gym. She wasn't the most flexible gymnast to start with as she is very strong and powerful but the excessive coughing has caused her pectoralis major and particularly her pectoralis minor and lattisimus dorsi to completely tighten up. They think various other abdominal muscles are probably also overly tight now. She struggles to open her shoulders fully and it also affects how much she can open her hips as well. We're doing all the things we need to: physio exercises, stretching, massage etc but obviously it's a very long and slow process and all the time her peers are gradually progressing further and further forwards from where she is. She absolutely loves gym and is very strong mentally, has never cried, enjoys conditioning and giggles through her stretching bless her. My concern is whether it is something she is likely to get through and is it worth her giving up so much of her time to something that in the long run she will never be able to continue with due to the damage that's been done to her muscles. I wondered if anyone else has got through troubles with lack of flexibility. I don't want to stop her if she's enjoying it but I also don't want to see her gradually realise she's not keeping up and lose her confidence etc. Her coach is really supportive and says that he hopes her strength and power will help her overcome it but it will make any R&C routines very challenging for her so compulsory route may cease to be an option for her. Any encouraging experiences from other people would be much appreciated. Thank you
 
Flexibility is important for the compulsory route I'm afraid. Your DD has to do a lot more stretching than her team mates. Depends what the gym, is there a good national route, or perhaps team gym or tumbling. Level 5 is very early days. Compulsories are only for the select few and I'm not sure I would recommend it! Let the coaches decide, all to can do is extra stretching.
 
ditto above, if she is falling behind already compulsories is a killer.

If she still has high hopes, a good club could get her to the British via Challenge Cup, lots of good gymnasts on that path, maybe she would struggle in compulsories, but kill it on the National route, it just gives her more time
 
If she has tightened up so much, I would say that at this point in her life continuing with the serious gymnastics is essential. If not she will get tighter, not looser as she gets older. The serious stretching that goes along with gymnastics will allow her mobility to return.

For kids learning to struggle through challenges is not a bad thing. If she loves it and is willing to persevere despite the challenges the life lessons she will gain from this is invaluable. We don't want to teach kids only to pursue things they excel at, being the best at something isn't the only reason to do it.

In WAG extreme flexibility is not essential. Strength and speed are more important, especially as the higher levels are reached. Many of the worlds top elite gymnasts have to work very hard at their flexibility too.
 
If she has tightened up so much, I would say that at this point in her life continuing with the serious gymnastics is essential. If not she will get tighter, not looser as she gets older. The serious stretching that goes along with gymnastics will allow her mobility to return.

For kids learning to struggle through challenges is not a bad thing. If she loves it and is willing to persevere despite the challenges the life lessons she will gain from this is invaluable. We don't want to teach kids only to pursue things they excel at, being the best at something isn't the only reason to do it.

In WAG extreme flexibility is not essential. Strength and speed are more important, especially as the higher levels are reached. Many of the worlds top elite gymnasts have to work very hard at their flexibility too.

Thank you, that is how I've been viewing it and I should trust that her coach knows what he's talking about. Just every now and then, as a parent, you have a wobble and wonder if you're doing the right thing. She really does love it and so far she's managed to overcome her problems (sometimes dramatically, first time she achieved a straddle Press to handstand and down again was in her first ever gym competition!), just takes a lot of work bless her. Thanks for your reassurance
 
For start with, it depends on your gym.

Some are tough, and any kid not keeping up "in age" will be moved to national grades. Some will only allow those that are successful in compulsories (regional medals/squad) to continue.

Some gyms don't pay much attention to Level 5, or even L4 (Heathrow, for example, don't compete until L3 when they have to achieve a pass to continue to L2). Some the standard is lower and anyone passing L5/L4 will continue compulsories. Some allow you to compete "out of age"- that may be on lower hours and nor considered "elite path".

Some gyms have a "type". If she's at a gym where they like the long lines and flexibility for R+C, she may struggle to stay on elite path than a gym who recognise R+C is a necessary evil, but sometimes a kid who doesn't excel in that area may rise to the top at espoir when power is more important and they're not held back by the R+C score any more.

R+C isn't forever. They don't compete it past 12, and really she only needs to do 3 years of L3, L2 and L1 So if her coach is supportive and she can get through those 3 compulsories with a basic pass that is all she needs. If she can't pass, they may shift her to competing grades, then challenge cup.

So she has options for staying elite track. Skip L5 if she isn't ready, and focus on being ready for L4, or even L3. Do compulsories "out of age", a year later- which will just mean she will compete British Champs as second year espoir rather than first. Or challenge cup when she's 11/12.

I will say though that if she does have these issues from whooping cough, then as Aussie_coach says, gymnastics will help enormously with her general physical health, even if she does fall off elite track.

Flexibility is the one thing that can be trained relatively easily. You can't train power and determination...
 
As an American, trying to figure out how the British gymnastics system works is fascinating. Are there older threads available that walk through this process, or if not - would someone be willing to write out the process (both elite and non elite)? I am a bit confused about "compulsories" as explained in this thread as it seems to have a completely different meaning than it does in the USAG JO program.

Thanks. :)
 
Personally I'm not sure I agree with our elite system, that's a (long) discussion for another day :). But in brief:

"Elite Track" kids are usually selected age 6 or 7, at the latest. They do compulsories in the spring- which just means the skills are compulsory, the routines are not. In the autumn they do voluntary, so choose own skills within the limits of their level.

The program runs "in age" so the compulsory levels are...
L5 the year they turn 8
L4 -9
L3-10
l2-11
l1-12

Then;

"espoir" at age 12/13
Junior 14/15
Senior 16+

For compulsories They also do a range and conditioning set: This is Level 3 (age 10) set, and is what probably excludes the vast majority of kids from elite.

 
Non elite track kids will compete regional comps, invitationals etc. There is a national "grades" pathway where they all compete the same skills, but it's much more fluid than the compulsory system. Less focus on age.
 
It's not just R&C that lack of flexibility can impact. Leaps on floor and beam is where it often shows, and in the compulsory route leaps not being in split are heavily deducted. Many of the skills needed for compulsory level 3 on beam need a high level of flexibility. Usually level 4 and 5 are "easy", level 3 quite a high drop out rate often due to beam. Level 2 very high drop out rate due to bars and that's when elite girls often switch to the Nationals/challenge cup route.

So few girls do pass Challenge Cup each year that it's not an easy alternative to Compulsories. Listen to the coaches, maybe look at tumbling, trampolining or team gym as an alternative if it doesn't work out in artistic.
 
Just curious- what skills are in level 3/2 for bars, beam floor vault? Wonder what JO level it would correspond to?
 
Is trampoline an option? From what you describe about your daughter's strengths, it might be a better fit long term to go an international route. Although flexibility can be trained, it depends on some things. If it's truly muscular it may be trainable but there is a neurological aspect especially in this case. Remember lack of mobility can also sometimes be structural and depends on their joint structure and ligaments. These can't be altered. So it's not always true that flexibility is very trainable. There is an individual structural aspect. Without knowing more or seeing her do gymnastics it's hard to advise.
 
Just curious- what skills are in level 3/2 for bars, beam floor vault? Wonder what JO level it would correspond to?
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Just curious- what skills are in level 3/2 for bars, beam floor vault? Wonder what JO level it would correspond to?

Roughly

level 3 is like level 8 , in age is at age 9-10
level 2 is like level 9, in age is at age 10-11
Level 1 and espoirs like level 10. In age is age 11-13
Junior and senior are FIG.
 
Roughly

level 3 is like level 8 , in age is at age 9-10
level 2 is like level 9, in age is at age 10-11
Level 1 and espoirs like level 10. In age is age 11-13
Junior and senior are FIG.

Are those the level 2 requirements posted above? That's about a level 7 here in USAG. Level 9s typically compete a layout yurchenko, shoot over or pak and double back on bars, bhs bhs on beam minimum or bhs bt/layout plus an aerial, 1.5 punch front on floor minimum with a fair amount of double tucks. Elite track here is usually level 7 by about 9, then level 10 by about 12 so similar. But this sounds maybe more equivalent to TOPs skill testing/Hopes.
 
Hm tried to edit but it says I can't. I see now it's level 3 and 2 posted above. It does seem more like TOPS/Hopes than our level structure. Hopes and Tops 10 year old on bars for example emphasizes some skills like stalders and toe circles as circling elements, blinds, and front giants over release moves (although they can do them but need to get all the basics down) whereas in the level structure it's kind of different and in order to get the special requirement for 9 you need a release but don't necessarily have to learn another circling entry or blind, front giants (again you can and probably should, but coaches prioritize just trying to get the JO requirements first and then on padding out the routine in their inevitable 2nd year of 9).
 
Hm tried to edit but it says I can't. I see now it's level 3 and 2 posted above. It does seem more like TOPS/Hopes than our level structure. Hopes and Tops 10 year old on bars for example emphasizes some skills like stalders and toe circles as circling elements, blinds, and front giants over release moves (although they can do them but need to get all the basics down) whereas in the level structure it's kind of different and in order to get the special requirement for 9 you need a release but don't necessarily have to learn another circling entry or blind, front giants (again you can and probably should, but coaches prioritize just trying to get the JO requirements first and then on padding out the routine in their inevitable 2nd year of 9).
This is the compulsory part of the level which is held at the beginning of the year, there is also voluntary part of the level which is held towards the end of the year which is much more like JO levels,
Heres the voluntary levels form level 4 - Espoirs; https://www.british-gymnastics.org/...ional-voluntary-age-group-rules-23-08-14/file
 
Hi, my DD is 7 and is training to Elite level in the UK. Her next competition is compulsory level 5 but there is a question mark as to whether she will be ready in time. Basically shortly after she started her gym trial nearly two years ago she came down with Whooping cough but it was undiagnosed to she suffered for three very long months with horrific bouts of coughing. Weirdly this has really impacted on her gym. She wasn't the most flexible gymnast to start with as she is very strong and powerful but the excessive coughing has caused her pectoralis major and particularly her pectoralis minor and lattisimus dorsi to completely tighten up. They think various other abdominal muscles are probably also overly tight now. She struggles to open her shoulders fully and it also affects how much she can open her hips as well. We're doing all the things we need to: physio exercises, stretching, massage etc but obviously it's a very long and slow process and all the time her peers are gradually progressing further and further forwards from where she is. She absolutely loves gym and is very strong mentally, has never cried, enjoys conditioning and giggles through her stretching bless her. My concern is whether it is something she is likely to get through and is it worth her giving up so much of her time to something that in the long run she will never be able to continue with due to the damage that's been done to her muscles. I wondered if anyone else has got through troubles with lack of flexibility. I don't want to stop her if she's enjoying it but I also don't want to see her gradually realise she's not keeping up and lose her confidence etc. Her coach is really supportive and says that he hopes her strength and power will help her overcome it but it will make any R&C routines very challenging for her so compulsory route may cease to be an option for her. Any encouraging experiences from other people would be much appreciated. Thank you

you lost me in the very first sentence...
 

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