MAG Difficulty vs Execution

[jenjean70]

It is. D is working on one, but it has to be perfect, and not fall short of 3 rotations in order to count. I guess they are strict with it....

That makes sense. That's why he did the double (very ugly) Russian in the mock meet. His coaches would like to include the triple in his routine next year.

 

[J&A's mom]

Well, my son always goes with execution as he is an extreme perfectionist. He never wants to compete a skill unless he does it well every day in practice. While most boys will shimmy their weight a little on a giant, for instance, my son will come down(in practice, and actually, in competition also).

But his teammate is another story. His routine is packed with difficulty, but he has execution errors everywhere! By the end of the season he usually can do it well without the execution errors.

A third gymnast does more difficulty BECAUSE he doesn't do easy routines well.

So, I guess my answer is that the coach learns the tendencies of the gymnast and goes with that.

 

[TravelingCoach]

Not sure it matters with L8 with the SR...

but at 9/10...

8 skills are allowed. If you 9/10 skills....and 8 are c/d tumbling skills. then your strength move is a b, technically the gymnast should lose credit fro the strength move since it is not in the 8 highest skills. Judges are supposed to count the 8 highest skills, then do the element groups from those. So, if a move from a group is not in the 8 highest skills, they can lose the credit for that group.

It's been about two years since I coached or judged men's in the US and while some things were modified, they still followed FIG rules for scoring. If they still are, then they count the 8 highest skills by element group and not just the 8 highest skills. I'll try to explain the best I can. Let's use a ring Routine as an example. There are four elements groups now: EGI Swinging elements, EGII strength elements, EGIII swing to strength, and EGIV Dismount. So if the gymnast has total of 8 c/d value skills from EGI, EGII, and EGIV but only does a a/b value skill from EGIII, one of the c/d value skills is lost and the a/b value skill is taken because the judge has to count at least one skill from every EG that is preformed. This also doesn't take into account that you are only allowed so many skills per element group in a routine as well. In the example below only skills 2-9 would be counted because each element group is counted first and then each remaining skill is counted for difficulty so one of the C value skills would be left out.

1. EG III - Back Uprise Cross - C
2. EG I - Back Uprise to Handstand - C
3. EG I - Yamawaki - C
4. EG I - Jonasson - C
5. EG III- Uprise to Support Scale - D
6. EG II - L Sit - A
7. EG III - Molinari - D
8. EG I - Honma to Handstand - D
9. EG IV - Double Back - B

You used to see this a lot when there were five elements groups, because there was one element group on each event that was just harder than than the others. Especially for the younger guys.

 

[profmom]

It's been about two years since I coached or judged men's in the US and while some things were modified, they still followed FIG rules for scoring. If they still are, then they count the 8 highest skills by element group and not just the 8 highest skills. I'll try to explain the best I can. Let's use a ring Routine as an example. There are four elements groups now: EGI Swinging elements, EGII strength elements, EGIII swing to strength, and EGIV Dismount. So if the gymnast has total of 8 c/d value skills from EGI, EGII, and EGIV but only does a a/b value skill from EGIII, one of the c/d value skills is lost and the a/b value skill is taken because the judge has to count at least one skill from every EG that is preformed. This also doesn't take into account that you are only allowed so many skills per element group in a routine as well. In the example below only skills 2-9 would be counted because each element group is counted first and then each remaining skill is counted for difficulty so one of the C value skills would be left out.

1. EG III - Back Uprise Cross - C
2. EG I - Back Uprise to Handstand - C
3. EG I - Yamawaki - C
4. EG I - Jonasson - C
5. EG III- Uprise to Support Scale - D
6. EG II - L Sit - A
7. EG III - Molinari - D
8. EG I - Honma to Handstand - D
9. EG IV - Double Back - B

You used to see this a lot when there were five elements groups, because there was one element group on each event that was just harder than than the others. Especially for the younger guys.

My coach has said that, new this year, in the above example, the athlete would lose the A skill and thus the group requirement.

 

[TravelingCoach]

It must be a change within USAG then. The only mention of taking highest value skills first within the FIG code is for special repetitions.

 

[profmom]

It must be a change within USAG then. The only mention of taking highest value skills first within the FIG code is for special repetitions.

Must be. I'm pretty sure Skschlag has heard the same thing from her son's coach. But as long as routines are short, it isn't a huge issue for most JO/JE guys except on floor. Though actually you've made me realize that my son's going to have to keep his rings routines short (as well as pbars) going forward, because his skill development there is uneven as well. Really hoping that he'll have gotten some more testosterone as a holiday gift!

 

[TravelingCoach]

If it has changed, then it would be a good idea to add the A value skill from an element group that you are missing instead of adding another higher value skill from an element group you already have. The lower value skill will add .6 at the least while the other would probably only add up to .3. I'm just guessing that anyone that can't do a skill higher than an A for each element group probably isn't dropping anything above a C in any element group.

 

[TravelingCoach]

I need to see if I can get someone to send me the USAG info for MAG and WAG invade I make my way back to the States at some point in the next few years. Wouldn't want to come back into the USAG world unprepared.

 

[krc]

Under current FIG rules, the top 10 (8 junior) skills are counted first, then connection bonus, and lastly element groups. If an element group does not appear in the "counting" elements - you will lose that group. The problem doesn't arise very often, but can show up on FX gp 1 and PB gp 2. The old USAG rules allowed EG's to be counted first. Now we must follow FIG.

Regards,
KRC

 

[skschlag]

Under current FIG rules, the top 10 (8 junior) skills are counted first, then connection bonus, and lastly element groups. If an element group does not appear in the "counting" elements - you will lose that group. The problem doesn't arise very often, but can show up on FX gp 1 and PB gp 2. The old USAG rules allowed EG's to be counted first. Now we must follow FIG.

Regards,
KRC

Much better explanation than what I was trying to say! Thanks @krc !

 

[Coach Z]

I need to see if I can get someone to send me the USAG info for MAG and WAG invade I make my way back to the States at some point in the next few years. Wouldn't want to come back into the USAG world unprepared.

I don't know where to find WAG info, but now that USAG writes the MAG rulebook for the National Federation of State High School Associations, one can find all the JO information online through the Illinois High School Gymnastics Coaching Association. Check out this website and look at the link to the JO MANUAL http://www.ihsgca.org/index.php?pageID=19.