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Discussion of abuse in USAG - Nassar

Discussion in 'Women's Artistic Gymnastics (WAG)' started by azara, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. sevenatenine2

    sevenatenine2 Verified Coach Verified Coach Proud Parent Former Gymnast

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    Dunno---thank you for responding. I appreciate your perspective. As a personal coach, if one of your athletes was seen alone for back pain in the hotel room of a doctor, would that have raised a red flag for you? Or would you have considered it as a norm?
     
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  2. txgymfan

    txgymfan Moderator Staff Member CBBC Board Member Coach Proud Relative

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  3. bookworm

    bookworm Active Member CB Booster Club Proud Parent

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    Well here is the Webster's Dictionary definition of "several":

    **Definition of several

    2 a : more than one
    • several pleas
    b : more than two but fewer than many
    • moved several inches
    So with just Aly, Makayla, Mattie Larson, Jamie Dantshcher, that's the dictionary definition of "several", not to mention the hundreds at MSU/Gedderts....and yes, putting his ungloved finger in these girls IS rape, period..
     
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  4. azara

    azara Coach Coach Gymnast

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    I can see why you feel that no matter what you say, you're the bad guy. The reason is that, in this case, USAG has screwed up royally. They are indefensible, and you are still defending them. The goal now should not be protecting USAG's reputation. The response I think most people are looking for is "yes, we have done badly, we will be making many changes in the future to prevent this happening again". Could MSU have done more? Absolutely, and if they had a representative on this board, I'm sure everyone would be all over them. But the fact that USAG was relying on others to be told about potential abusers, rather than maintaining their own proactive policies, is worrying.

    I very much appreciate that you acknowledged the USAG culture contributed to the abuse. Complacency problems aren't unique to USAG; it's a common theme across almost all abuse situations. The problem is that since children and the general public might not recognise abuse, there needed to be stronger safeguards from those in charge to prevent those environments being created, and having those who would recognise abuse readily available to evaluate and monitor the situation. Hindsight it 20/20, of course, but that should have been done beforehand, and there are no excuses there, which is another reason USAG can't be defended.

    Hundreds of underage girls were sexually assaulted in USAG spaces over the course of twenty years. Whether or not you want to get into the semantics of "raped" vs. "molested", the truth is that the scale and extent of the abuse is shocking (to which you have naturally agreed), and to argue that they weren't raped doesn't acknowledge the true heart of the matter. It makes it sound like you're defending the abuser, even if you don't mean to.

    I don't disbelieve you when you said nobody knew. The issue is that they should have known. That's what people are really criticising USAG for.

    I would add that people are concerned because, as the only representative of USAG on the board, your attitude represents the attitude of the entire federation. The defence of USAG before the acknowledgement of serious, systemic errors indicates that the organisation will be resistant to desperately needed change.
     

  5. gymmomx2

    gymmomx2 Active Member Proud Parent

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    Does dunno really represent USAG though? Does he play an official role there or is he speaking only for himself?
     
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  6. azara

    azara Coach Coach Gymnast

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    I asked him a while back (on a different thread) and he said he spoke for all of USAG.
     
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  7. Taxidriver

    Taxidriver New Member Proud Parent

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    Hindsight is a wonderful thing and you can’t change what has already happened but you can change the way things are done in the future and what is and isn’t acceptable.
    Whilst what has happened is horrible and deeply troubling we will never truly know who actually knew and covered things up or turned a blind eye or who thought it was acceptable because they bowed down to him as he was a very well respected doctor ( I have for my work done many safeguarding courses and as a part have looked at serious case reviews which happen here in the UK when abuse has been missed to see what lessons can be learned and time and time again it says the perpetrator was a very well respected person)
    The real focus needs to be on what is being done to change things and I would be even more alarmed with what is known now if doctors are still allowed to treat gymnasts alone.
     
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  8. sewgood

    sewgood Member Proud Parent

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    Well, to be fair to MSU, when USAG figured out they had an abuser on their hands, they didn't notify MSU, either... even though USAG was well aware of the fact that he was working with underage gymnasts at his clinic. The lack of communication between MSU and USAG is just astounding to me, especially since MSU was paying for his volunteer work at USAG.


    Wait, are you denying that girls were raped at the training center?
     
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  9. 4theloveofsports

    4theloveofsports Active Member Proud Parent

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    Sounds like you've not been to the ranch nor have any idea where it is located. The ranch is about a 20 minute drive on a dirt road from its entrance to the gym facilities. Being central as part of the country has no relevance to the ranch being easily accessible.
     
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  10. GymFan96

    GymFan96 Member Former Gymnast

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    I know exactly where it is; I misunderstood what that poster meant by "central." Anyway I don't think the ranch location had to do with the molestations. Or the lack of parental access. Parents were sometimes IN THE ROOM while Nassar was assaulting children.

    If I remember correctly Macready's camp is quite isolated as well and no one has been molested there.
     
  11. John

    John Active Member Proud Parent

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    You miss the point. The point is simply the USAG needs to change the way they do everything with respect to children's safety. There is no defense of the USAG that I will agree is appropriate. It is simply acknowledge the wrong and change. The ranch is a great place to start.
     
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  12. skschlag

    skschlag Well-Known Member CBBC Board Member Proud Parent

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    Yes..it is isolated. With very strict policies and procedures that are followed. This is what USAG has been missing....
     
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  13. sevenatenine2

    sevenatenine2 Verified Coach Verified Coach Proud Parent Former Gymnast

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    My problem with the Ranch, outside of these allegations, is how far out it is and how difficult to get to it is in the vent of a catastrophic injury. I've literally had to get out of my car, remove debris from the road, and continue on down.
     
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  14. sewgood

    sewgood Member Proud Parent

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    I agree! I think it's crazy that it is so difficult to get in and out of and there are no emergency services nearby!!!
     
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  15. Seeker

    Seeker Well-Known Member Proud Parent Former Gymnast

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    This is part of usag’s legal response to the Denhollander case — they want it dismissed. If it wasn’t clear already, they really don’t take any responsibility.

    860DB4E3-0D12-42B0-B4D1-729889AA86C0.jpeg
     
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  16. Seeker

    Seeker Well-Known Member Proud Parent Former Gymnast

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    Just so we all know what we’re dealing with.... D3898B4A-E429-4C8A-A494-BD9EE022098D.jpeg
     
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  17. txgymfan

    txgymfan Moderator Staff Member CBBC Board Member Coach Proud Relative

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    OH my! That is horrible! If USAG had no duty to warn MSU then they can't say MSU should have warned USAG. Thanks for sharing this Seeker. I can't "like " it .
     
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  18. MILgymFAM

    MILgymFAM Well-Known Member CB Booster Club Proud Parent

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    Wow! That’s absolutely appalling and I don’t know how anyone can morally defend USAG if that is their stance.
     
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  19. TumbleTimes4

    TumbleTimes4 Member Proud Parent

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    Why can they not just acknowledge that they made mistakes that gave Nasser the opportunity to abuse and then outline new policies and procedures that would prevent this from happening again? Just acknowledging that fact and owning that responsibility would go a long way toward healing and rebuilding the community.

    I think we as parents have more power than we think. We can refuse to send our girls to gyms and camps that place their medal potential above their safety. At the end of the day, it always comes down to money and if we don’t fund those gyms and camps with our tuition money, it will either force change or force them out. I’m not sure what affect it would have on the national team and organization as a whole, but it could bring needed change to at least the ground level and the building blocks of that program.
     
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  20. John

    John Active Member Proud Parent

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    I like this so much but sadly I believe there are parents out there that put winning over the safety and encouraging positive treatment of their own children.
     
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