WAG Discussion of abuse in USAG - Nassar

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tumbletop

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In the US Physician licensure is on a state by state basis with some exceptions for federal facilities (like VAMC, IHS, etc) where any state license can be used.

Some states do grant temporary licenses, volunteer licenses, and or camp licenses and it is possible that Nassar had something like that during his time at the ranch. It is also possible that USAG somehow overlooked this entirely.

Also, since he went there so often, he may have obtained a Texas license. It's not hard, mostly the same as getting a new driver's license when moving states but more expensive and some extra paperwork (CV, license from previous state, background check). My sister was originally licensed in only Minnesota, but then got hired by a hospital system that overlaps with North Dakota, and since they rotate through facilities in both states she had to get a ND license too. Putzy and time consuming, but if you travel frequently it would be easy to obtain. Especially with endorsement from a USOTC and the money of USAG available.

Wild speculation though, I have no idea what they did in re licensure.

....I just typed license so many times it's starting to look weird and wrong. Woo!
 
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MILgymFAM

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Well, she is somewhat caught between a rock and a hard place. Of course she’s going to support her dad. What is she supposed to do, throw him under the bus? I’m really not sure she can win in this instance. Damned if she says something, damned if she doesn’t. I personally am not comfortable with criticizing her too much, we don’t know what demons she’s fighting in private either.

At least she offered all the proceeds of the Nastia cup. I can appreciate that.
She is caught in the middle but that doesn’t endear too much sympathy from me. If my father deserved to be called out as a bad guy I would do so. My husband is a blind loyalty kind of guy, but I’ve personally never understood the concept. If people that I love do bad things I will absolutely still love them, and they also absolutely still deserve the consequences of their actions. Nastia in general always seems very me, me, me.
 

Lunde

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Also, since he went there so often, he may have obtained a Texas license. It's not hard, mostly the same as getting a new driver's license when moving states but more expensive and some extra paperwork (CV, license from previous state, background check). My sister was originally licensed in only Minnesota, but then got hired by a hospital system that overlaps with North Dakota, and since they rotate through facilities in both states she had to get a ND license too. Putzy and time consuming, but if you travel frequently it would be easy to obtain. Especially with endorsement from a USOTC and the money of USAG available.

Wild speculation though, I have no idea what they did in re licensure.

....I just typed license so many times it's starting to look weird and wrong. Woo!

According to Maroney's victim statement Nassar never obtained a Texas licence despite treating patients in Texas for so many years. I would guess that her lawyer has been researching Nassar's medical licence and potential malpractice insurance for the civil suits.
 

PRY9

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Well, she is somewhat caught between a rock and a hard place. Of course she’s going to support her dad. What is she supposed to do, throw him under the bus? I’m really not sure she can win in this instance. Damned if she says something, damned if she doesn’t. I personally am not comfortable with criticizing her too much, we don’t know what demons she’s fighting in private either.

At least she offered all the proceeds of the Nastia cup. I can appreciate that.

Yes, absolutely to the bolded (though this really applies to everyone, always...). However, IMO her reactions to this whole situation have been at best awkward and unfortunate and from a PR perspective - a complete train wreck. Yesterday's statement definitely came across as a poor attempt at damage control.
 

GymFan96

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Yes, absolutely to the bolded (though this really applies to everyone, always...). However, IMO her reactions to this whole situation have been at best awkward and unfortunate and from a PR perspective - a complete train wreck. Yesterday's statement definitely came across as a poor attempt at damage control.

Yes, and she claims she was caught off guard when asked about the scandal on tv. Idk exactly which tv appearance she means, but she did an interview on NBC Sports in March 2017 that she had clearly planned and prepared for. She basically says her experience with Nassar was always great and she’s totally shocked at the allegations.

It’s really not necessary to “come out” as a non-victim when so many others have solid proof against him. Keep in mind this was AFTER Nassar had already been charged with child porn possession! Her interview came off like a PR move to make USAG look less bad.
 
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TakeTwo

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WOGA is not now, nor has it ever been a "safe space," and to suggest that Valeri profit off of using his gym as a national team training center (and yes, he would profit significantly through the publicity and ensuing increase in enrollment) is a horrible solution. WOGA is the epitome of the very "shut your mouth and do as you're told or you'll be cut" society that is in many ways responsible for this situation. We have to find a way to make our girls safe to speak out about violence in the gym (whether verbal, physical or emotional ) without feeling like their dreams and futures are on the line or we will just repeat this same situation with new names.
 

azara

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WOGA is not now, nor has it ever been a "safe space," and to suggest that Valeri profit off of using his gym as a national team training center (and yes, he would profit significantly through the publicity and ensuing increase in enrollment) is a horrible solution. WOGA is the epitome of the very "shut your mouth and do as you're told or you'll be cut" society that is in many ways responsible for this situation. We have to find a way to make our girls safe to speak out about violence in the gym (whether verbal, physical or emotional ) without feeling like their dreams and futures are on the line or we will just repeat this same situation with new names.

What an excellent point. I didn't even think about that first point, but it's screamingly obvious now that you've written it down. Any gym which offers themselves up will be inconvenienced in the short term (cancelling classes for a few days) but will gain exposure as essentially the country's best gym in the long term.

I don't think there is any other solution than using a high-level gym, though - it's not like they can practise in a paddock. So I would like to see somewhere like Texas Dreams or WCC act as a host. Both of those appear to embrace a philosophy which treats gymnasts like humans, not medal-winning robots. I could be wrong about my interpretation, but if I'm not, it would send the right message that the new admin is going to lean towards and support the nicer gyms and step away from the Soviet-esque ones. Although Valeri's the one in charge, so I'm not holding my breath.

Speaking of Valeri, I think he should make his own statement, if anything for transparency. He's been totally silent throughout all this. Nastia's seemed to double as his, which is ridiculous. Valeri is the current NTC, not Nastia. He should be the one to tell us about his training philosophy and his reaction to the situation, not his daughter.
 

bogwoppit

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Speaking of Valeri, I think he should make his own statement, if anything for transparency. He's been totally silent throughout all this. Nastia's seemed to double as his, which is ridiculous. Valeri is the current NTC, not Nastia. He should be the one to tell us about his training philosophy and his reaction to the situation, not his daughter.

I am thinking the NT staff have been told to say nothing. But their silence is so loud. Valeri really needs to speak at this point. I also want to know what rock the Karolyi's are hiding under.
 

Flyaway

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I am thinking the NT staff have been told to say nothing. But their silence is so loud. Valeri really needs to speak at this point. I also want to know what rock the Karolyi's are hiding under.

If the NT staff/Karolyi’s have been instructed to keep silent by lawyers, etc., what would you have them do?

I understand that people want a statement. I have a feeling that even if one was made it would be extremely restricted by lawyers involved and therefore would make no one happy (ie. no one is gonna come out and take responsibility. It’s just not gonna happen.). So what should they do? Again, damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

As the disclaimer, I am not defending anyone. I believe that USAG, USOC, the Karolyi’s and NT staff all played a role in this tragedy. I just do not know what they could say or do at this point that would make people happy. What we all want is for it to not have happened. But we can’t go back in time. So I believe that’s why I’m looking for positive steps forward. However small, however insignificant in light of the gravity of the situation. No, one small step won’t make it all better and it doesn’t erase or remove the damage done. But we’ll never get close if those small steps aren’t taken at all.
 

amiandjim

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I understand they have probably been warned against speaking by their lawyers, and I agree I want to see even small changes. I would like these small steps to include banning coaches with a history of complaints of verbal/physical abuse (ex: Geddert). I would like them to stop giving a USAG membership to coaches who have a long history of abuse complaints (ex: Thompsons). I would like to culture of “well, everyone knows, but no one does anything (ex: Don Peters) to stop completely.
 

bogwoppit

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If the NT staff/Karolyi’s have been instructed to keep silent by lawyers, etc., what would you have them do?

Obviously if they have been told to say nothing, I would expect nothing. What I meant was that the silence from the NT team staff does them no favours, regardless of the reason. If they want to run a good PR campaign they would be better served opening a dialogue.
 

l.c.o

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I would have to speculate that it seems they are maybe trying to find the line between legal recommendations vs. PR recommendations.

With the sheer scope of the ‘problem’ (140+ women and counting, right?) I’d wager that admitting fault could very well be financially catastrophic to the organization. It would essentially be a blank check to the survivors of abuse. Looking at it strictly through the lens of the organization (trying to save USAG), taking a PR hit and attempting to minimize the damage to their reputation may be the only real solution. They probably think that they can weather the PR nightmare,
but their pocketbooks can’t take that large of a hit.

I’d bet many USAG gymnasts and families are largely unaware of the scope of the problem. And fewer are paying close enough attention to
notice USAG’s current PR inconsistencies.

I don’t agree with this, but I’ve been thinking about it for awhile, and it would make sense.

And I hope I’m wrong, but for gymnasts/clubs to move away from USAG could be tough! I would imagine USAG has the rights to the compulsory routines/music, widely used coaches training, national team training, code of points, easy network of meets, etc. To start over would be a big undertaking, particularly without the dissolution/cooperation of USAG. How did that go when it switched last time from US Gym Fed or whatever to usag?
 
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Lunde

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I don't think there is any other solution than using a high-level gym, though - it's not like they can practise in a paddock. So I would like to see somewhere like Texas Dreams or WCC act as a host. Both of those appear to embrace a philosophy which treats gymnasts like humans, not medal-winning robots.

I don't know that TD would be be a great choice. Kim has never supported any of her former teammates that spoke out about the Karolyi's abuse. In fact she threw Morceanu under the bus and denied the things Dom said and actually claimed she was "coming from a different planet".
 

LindyHopper

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Just a thought about something I haven't seen a lot about... 18 months ago Jamie Dantzscher came forward. Doc Ali was one of the people who pushed back and defended Nassar.

Has she made any statements since? I mean being the USAG team psychologist, wouldn't she have something to say about the mental health of past and current gymnasts who suffered Nassar's abuse.
 

bogwoppit

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Just a thought about something I haven't seen a lot about... 18 months ago Jamie Dantzscher came forward. Doc Ali was one of the people who pushed back and defended Nassar.

Has she made any statements since? I mean being the USAG team psychologist, wouldn't she have something to say about the mental health of past and current gymnasts who suffered Nassar's abuse.


As part of the NT staff I expect to hear nothing. I am sure they have been told to stay silent.
 
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bookworm

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Just a thought about something I haven't seen a lot about... 18 months ago Jamie Dantzscher came forward. Doc Ali was one of the people who pushed back and defended Nassar.
.

And from the description of what Doc Ali did to Jamie when she came forward in publicly shaming her on social media , Doc Ali should be a "former member of the NT staff" as well....keeping this supposed guru on board that doesn't believe the athletes she's supposed to be helping is more salt in the wound...and doesn't she ( Doc Ali) have ads on CB? Maybe that should be revisited...
 
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