WAG Do you actually need a back walkover to learn a bhs?

[Deleted member 28607]

Just a question for Chalkbucket coaches:

I'm highly inflexible, and I learned my bhs being able to do a bridge and a terrible backbend. My coach said it was fine to learn handsprings without walkovers, and the most important thing to have learned before a bhs is a strong shoulder block and being able to arch your back. (I already had a front handspring before learning a back handspring).

A few days ago I was having a conversation with a friend, who is a YMCA/high school gymnast. Her goal in her gymnastics career is to learn a back handspring. She said that her coaches don't allow her to start learning a bhs because her back walkover isn't good enough. (her back walkover looks pretty good, except for her bent legs and unpointed toes). After reading Chalkbucket threads, I realized that many coaches do not allow gymnasts to learn a back handspring without having a back walkover first. (In that case, I would be in deep trouble... i still don't have a back walkover lol). So my question is: do you actually need a back walkover first in order to learn a back handspring? If yes, why? If not, what things do you look for and what drills do you do before allowing a gymnast to train a bhs?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

BWO and, if you can get it, back limber, are excellent physical prep in general..... but not really necessary to learn a BHS.

Case in point: I was an elite floor specialist, and I've never done a BWO in my life

 

[Trying_to_tumble]

I am NOT a coach.....however-
my gymnastics coach always said you 10000% HAD to have a bwo before even THINKING of backhandsprings. however, my gymnastics coach was superrrr flexible and I am.....not. I CAN do a backwalkover, but its pretty sloppy and practicing even just 5 or 6 of them give me back pain. I started doing backhandpsrings with a light spot the very day I got my backwalkover, because to be honest, I only made myself learn a backwalkover because my coach said I needed it.

however, my tumbling coach (I do tumbling now) is teaching 2 other girls who can barely do backbend kickovers bhs's with a roller or heavy spot. so from my experience, you don't really need it if you get too much back pain (like me).

one thing I would I like to add: I think back limbers are more helpful than walkovers. in a backwalkover, you need balance, flexibility in your back and legs, and some strength. In a back limber, you need flexibility in your back and a bit more strength. it is easier in my opinion, since falling into a bridge with one leg in the air is mildy terrifying.

 

[Deleted member 28607]

one thing I would I like to add: I think back limbers are more helpful than walkovers. in a backwalkover, you need balance, flexibility in your back and legs, and some strength. In a back limber, you need flexibility in your back and a bit more strength. it is easier in my opinion, since falling into a bridge with one leg in the air is mildy terrifying.

THIS. My exact thoughts. I actually can do a very pretty back limber off a panel mat, and the motion is exactly a back handspring without the shoulder block. A back walkover is more of a back handspring step-out (like the ones usually done on beam) and the motion doesn't feel like a bhs at all

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Back limbers are great in their own right and I think every athlete should train them to whatever extent they're able, whether that's off a mat or on flat ground or whatever. But again, I don't think they're necessary for strong backhandsprings.

Most of the power in a BHS comes from the lower body. Back limber and BWO are primarily upper-body exercises.

 

[Aussie_coach]

No (but there is a but).

You absolutely do not need to be able to do a back walkover to do a back handspring.

Go to any gym with a MAG program and the majority of their boys team will be able to do a back handspring and only a few will be able to do a back walkover (we do teach walkovers to our boys, but very few other gyms seem to).

Girls who lack flexibility in the shoulders will also learn to do the BHS without doing the BWO.

However, my thoughts are, that if a gymnast doesn’t have the flexibility then it’s not a requirement. BUT if they are flexible enough to do a BWO then we do make it a prerequisite. Because if they are capable of doing a BWO but can’t, it can indicate an issue such as fear of going backwards, core weaknesses etc.

 

[Gymnast2009]

No (but there is a but).

You absolutely do not need to be able to do a back walkover to do a back handspring.

Go to any gym with a MAG program and the majority of their boys team will be able to do a back handspring and only a few will be able to do a back walkover (we do teach walkovers to our boys, but very few other gyms seem to).

Girls who lack flexibility in the shoulders will also learn to do the BHS without doing the BWO.

However, my thoughts are, that if a gymnast doesn’t have the flexibility then it’s not a requirement. BUT if they are flexible enough to do a BWO then we do make it a prerequisite. Because if they are capable of doing a BWO but can’t, it can indicate an issue such as fear of going backwards, core weaknesses etc.

That’s really smart

 

[Dahlialover]

They don’t teach boys back walkovers or even limbers at our gym. The first back tumbling is the back handspring. But the girls are clearly better tumblers at our gym, and I suspect that walkovers make a difference.

 

[Aussie_coach]

We teach our boys back walkovers and front walkovers and limbers and it does make a big difference to tumbling and vaulting.

 

[estamey21]

To summarize the previous comments: (1) A back walkover is not required to do a back handspring. (2) A back walkover helps with flexibility/strength/coordination that is required to do upper-level gymnastics.

Your coaches might say "you need a back walkover before a back handspring" but what they are really saying is "you need to prove that you are capable enough to attempt more dangerous skills."

SAFETY IS THE GOAL. If you are simply not flexible enough to do a back walkover, there are other ways to prove that you are ready to do more advance skills such as a back handspring.

Some coaches have a policy of "no BWO, no BHS". This is common in women's gymnastics programs. If your friend wants to learn back handsprings but her coach is saying NO, I think she should ask if there are other skills/drills she can do to prove her ability. Often, a bad back walkover is a symptom of other weaknesses, which is why it's used as a measuring stick.

 

[Deleted member 28607]

To summarize the previous comments: (1) A back walkover is not required to do a back handspring. (2) A back walkover helps with flexibility/strength/coordination that is required to do upper-level gymnastics.

Your coaches might say "you need a back walkover before a back handspring" but what they are really saying is "you need to prove that you are capable enough to attempt more dangerous skills."

SAFETY IS THE GOAL. If you are simply not flexible enough to do a back walkover, there are other ways to prove that you are ready to do more advance skills such as a back handspring.

Some coaches have a policy of "no BWO, no BHS". This is common in women's gymnastics programs. If your friend wants to learn back handsprings but her coach is saying NO, I think she should ask if there are other skills/drills she can do to prove her ability. Often, a bad back walkover is a symptom of other weaknesses, which is why it's used as a measuring stick.

This makes so much sense! I'm really good when it comes to power and strength, so I'm guessing my coach knew that my arms were strong so I would not bend them and land on my head...

 

[Mthegymqueen]

I know a few gymnasts who have done back handsprings before back walkovers, but I would highly suggest trying to get a back walkover or a sort of skill that involves going back ward into a bridge and kicking over (skills like a back limber are very helpful)

 

[Soaring]

A back walkover isn't necessary for a back handspring, but if a gymnast is unable to keep their legs straight in a back walkover then they probably won't be able to keep them straight for the back handspring

 

[mazz642]

In Australia a BWO is required in level 4 routine and back handspring not until level 5 so I imagine because of that it's unlikely to teach handspring without one?

 

[Aussie_coach]

In the specific example of the gymnast the OP is referring to. As a coach, I would require her to perfect her back walkover before learning the back handspring.

She states that the gymnast can do a back walkover, it’s just bent knees and pointed toes. So it is not a flexibility issue. It’s important for the gymnast to be able to point toes and straighten legs before moving on, if these habits transport into the BHS it can cause problems. It also shows that she doesn’t yet have the skill to keep all body parts tight at the same time, when doing a Slower skill, so it will be very hard in a faster one.

Doing a BHS before being physically ready to do it can have serious consequences.

 

[Aussie_coach]

In Australia a BWO is required in level 4 routine and back handspring not until level 5 so I imagine because of that it's unlikely to teach handspring without one?

In Australia a back walkover is not required for Level 4. It is a choice between a back walkover or a tic toc. So a gymnast doesn’t have to go backwards in Level 4.

Also WAG is just one gymsport. A Bwo is not required before BHS in most gymsports - MAG, trampoline and tumbling, Gymnastics For All, Team gym, Cheer, Sports Acrobatics.

 

[mazz642]

In Australia a back walkover is not required for Level 4. It is a choice between a back walkover or a tic toc. So a gymnast doesn’t have to go backwards in Level 4.

Also WAG is just one gymsport. A Bwo is not required before BHS in most gymsports - MAG, trampoline and tumbling, Gymnastics For All, Team gym, Cheer, Sports Acrobatics.

Ahh ok! Thanks for clarifying. My daughter just said they have a BWO in their routine and didn’t mention tic toc so I wrongly assumed it meant it was compulsory. Didn’t realise there was an option in level 4. Good to know

 

[Aussie_coach]

Ahh ok! Thanks for clarifying. My daughter just said they have a BWO in their routine and didn’t mention tic toc so I wrongly assumed it meant it was compulsory. Didn’t realise there was an option in level 4. Good to know

I think sometimes the coaches don’t give an option. The Australian Code if Points is treated a bit like a National secret, only made available to qualified coaches with current technical memberships.

But I believe it should be more publicly available, so gymnasts actually know the options they have.

Happy to share the information with anyone who wants it.

 

[raenndrops]

In Australia a BWO is required in level 4 routine and back handspring not until level 5 so I imagine because of that it's unlikely to teach handspring without one?

In the USAG Development Levels, BHS is in Level 3, but BWO is in Level 4.
We work both BWO (or Bridge-Kickover for the less flexible) and BHS starting in level 2.

 

[QuietColours]

I've watched lots of adults get very nice back handsprings. BWO is almost never part of the progression in adult classes, between time, flexibility issues, and needing to protect our backs, but it hasn't stopped most people who work through progressions from getting technically solid BHS