WAG Does this happen????

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happychaos

Proud Parent
These threads about Regionals have got me wondering....

There have been so many discussions on CB about compulsory levels sandbagging to win as a team, OR having individual girls compete "down" a level or two so they can sweep the medals. Does this happen at the optional levels as well? How frequently?

For example, would a girl who could compete as a mediocre L10 ever remain an L9 so she could place high at regionals/easterns/westerns etc? Is this viewed with the same disdain at the optional levels, or is it just a smart thing to do for a girls career?
 
I'm thinking yes, there would be girls competing at a level they can be successful at, even if they have some skills for the level above. I think that's smart...esp at the high levels where the skills gap between levels is much bigger.
 
Often times when they get to optionals the reason for not moving up is because they're missing an essential skill on even just one event. If someone could do very well at eastern/westerns for level 9 and they have all their 10 skills then they probably would do well at 10 too. The problem is probably more like a mental block or something holding them back to get their start values on the next level.
I'm sure coaches hold kids back when they shouldn't still, but it seems more often that it's due to a missing skill needed for the next level up rather than to have a "clean look" like in compulsories. Make since?
 
Ummm.yeah!! Half the girls my dd competed against at state were either second (or third!) Year level eights, or competed nine then dropped back to eight for states and regionals. Frustrating, yes, but it happens.
 
In my opinion, from level 8 and up, there really isn't such a thing as repeating.(meaning it's okay to be a second year level 8) It just gets harder and harder and some kids don't ever make it to 9 and even fewer to 10.
Yup! It's also a matter of committing the time it takes to learn and maintain the skills. For instance a level 8 can train 14-16 hours a week and compete comfortably.... a level 9, maybe but probably not.... a level 10, well you can wish on one hand.........
 
IMHO It's not the same because you are not doing the same exact routine like you do in compulsory. The skills at level 8-10 are much harder and can vary so girls may stay the rest of there gymnastics career at level 8 or 9 which is still a tremendous accomplishment . Or it may take a gymmie a long time to get the next level skills to move up.
 
Agree with Gymmomof1, most repeaters at optionals continue to add skills so it's not stagnant. It's hard when one event holds them back, but it happens a lot (especially beam and bars). And it's hard to judge by looking at scores. We had a couple girls repeat L8 this year who consistently scored 37s last year. However, they were missing a lot of skills on beam and bars.
 
Some call it sand bagging and some call it smart competing. Ideally a gymnasts should be competing at a level they are very strong at already and should be working skills for a higher level. Kids should not be competing skills they just learned.

I totally agree with this, especially as they move up in difficulty.
 
Yes I have seen gymnasts compete down a level at optionals so that their team wins. But not as often as compulsories.

As for as repeaters though - Once you get to optionals it is not about how well you did at the previous level, but whether you have the skills for the next level and as you move up and it exponentially harder to get the skills for the next level.
 
Then there is the injury factor like in my dds case. On paper it will look like next year is her 2nd level 9 year but in reality she was injured and didn't finish the season. Plus it will take her most of these months to get back the skills so most likely no upgrading for awhile. Also, at regionals/nationals the girls on a team are from clubs and states so sandbagging would be a non factor.
 
The fear factor can really hit at optionals - DD and her coach made the decision for her to repeat L7 last summer, after a season of placing well, although she was rapidly learning all the L8 skills (now with 2 weeks of uptraining has beam, floor and vault...bars 75%), because she was an absolute basket case about it! She didn't really upgrade her L7 routines, either, but just polished, got strong and felt confident. I suspect this happens alot to the younger optionals (DD is 11), as well as puberty, etc....Seems like going a year a level is actually quite rare in optionals in our state, at least.
 
In my opinion, from level 8 and up, there really isn't such a thing as repeating.(meaning it's okay to be a second year level 8) It just gets harder and harder and some kids don't ever make it to 9 and even fewer to 10.

Agree. There are a lot of solid level 8s who can't safely and competently compete 9 yet.
 
Ummm.yeah!! Half the girls my dd competed against at state were either second (or third!) Year level eights, or competed nine then dropped back to eight for states and regionals. Frustrating, yes, but it happens.

L8 I think is VERY common to repeat. I don't think it is sandbagging, it is just that the jump to 9 is huge, especially when you consider you have to have all the connection bonuses to start from a 10. And I don't think it is uncommon for a 2nd or 3rd year 8 to try L9 but find out it is too hard or that they aren't starting from a 10 or whatever, and then drop back to L8 before the designation date. We had a girl at our gym last year who started out as a L9 at the first meet, but then started having some overuse injuries and dropped back to L8 as she could still do those skills and compete. Also, 2nd and 3rd year L8s are common because it may be the last level for many girls. When you look at our state numbers there are 2x as many L8s as L9's.
 
I know a handful of girls who were level 8s for 3+ years. One was actually a level 8 for 7 years. Yes, they usually dominated. But most of them stayed level 8 for so long because they had severe mental blocks that prevented them from moving up to level 9. Level 9 requires you to do some pretty scary stuff!

Also, mental blocks aside, level 8 is a hard level. It is perfectly respectable to top out at level 8. Most people do not even get that far!
 
Okay, I understand about doing a level more than once for missing skills, fears etc.

In compulsories it is common to have a girl compete L4 and score a 38+, when she has the ability to compete L5 and score a 36.5.

Is it ever advantageous in optionals to hang back a year, like doing a second year of L9 to WIN, even though the gymnast could safely compete L10, and score middle of the pack?

What "looks better" to prospective college coaches? Winning as a 2nd year L9, or moving on to L10 and doing okay?
 
Okay, I understand about doing a level more than once for missing skills, fears etc.

In compulsories it is common to have a girl compete L4 and score a 38+, when she has the ability to compete L5 and score a 36.5.

Is it ever advantageous in optionals to hang back a year, like doing a second year of L9 to WIN, even though the gymnast could safely compete L10, and score middle of the pack?

What "looks better" to prospective college coaches? Winning as a 2nd year L9, or moving on to L10 and doing okay?
Advantageous maybe in the sense of qualifying to Easterns/westerns but about college not really.

And common? No. It's too hard by that point to motivate the kids to do something they DON'T want to do and they always want to be level 10 if they can. Repeating is much more exclusively because they can't physically or mentally do it, unless they're under 13 and need to be paced but that is another rare situation in itself.
 

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