WAG Does USAG compulsory text and exemplar video lead Righties to Right-hurdle RO?

[profmom]

The genetics of this is really interesting. All of my kids are right handed writers, but they are all hybrids genetically, as both of their bio grandmothers are lefties. My oldest, the soccer player, batted righty when he played baseball and is definitely right dominant, but he has a decent left foot.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i could never do more than 1.

 

[gopuckgo]

So is it a problem if a kid is RO right and twist left? Should she be twisting right with a right RO?

 

[COz]

... but he has a decent left foot.

i could never do more than 1.

That's OK dunno. Most people only have 1 left foot.
Oh, unless you have 2 and then can't dance

 

[Alyssa S.]

because it is ALL left to the discretion of the coaches. there are nuances and differences in trampoline twisting, artistic twisting, diving twisting, etc; in the end, the coaches, no matter what country they are from, will do whatever works best for the athlete.

1 small example. Biles performs a "true" "tsuk" 2 1/2 off vault. it's not a "kasamatsu". and of course, experienced coaches know that the 1st is the most difficult. in the end, it's what worked best for her and that was trampoline twisting.

I wish I could agree that "coaches will do whatever works best for the athlete." I have no doubt that you and your coaches do so; and many who post here will do so.
But I have seen too many coaches force RIGHT-lead with younger Leftie girls (for the wrong reasons, e.g., convenience AND inexperience) beginning at L1 or 2.

But here is the heart of my inquiry: might that rightie coaching be best for the leftie girl anyway? Hypothetically, I mean, for the leftie girl that mistakenly learns from coaches since age 3 to Right cartwheel and to Right roundoff, but later turns out to be a straight leftie (leftie in life and leftie in gymnastics). Is she lucky when she leaves L5 that her coach mistakenly taught her to follow the Right-leads in the USAG text and exemplar videos verbatim (without any permissible reverse elements)? Will the Leftie girl be better off with her Right roundoff and twisting clockwise?

 

[sce]

great point Skschlag^^^and i'll tell you this. i circled on pommel horse clockwise. when i was a kid and now i still can't understand HOW a gymnast circles counter clockwise. AND i have had a couple NCAA champs and Champs and JO pommel horse champions in my time and half of them went counter. 'Dunno shaking his head in disbelievement'

I have a hard time watching my dd do gym. She does everything with her left and I am strongly right. It feels weird to watch her cartwheel turn etc on the "wrong" foot. Not that it's really wrong but my brain gets confuzzled watching it.

 

[twinmomma]

DD is a righty both with handedness and in the gym. Her right splits are better than her left, she hurdles right, etc... DS is a baseball player and is all righty as well, throwing, batting, etc... I do wonder how much is genetics, as I always joke I'm so right handed my left is useless with the exception of typing.

We had two or three girls reverse their L3 routines this year. Never was an issue for the coaches at all.

 

[Seeker]

I am left handed, but play all sports right (or both). Batting is dominant as a righty, but I can bat left as well. Tennis and golf are right dominant. I use my right hand to cut out of necessity (who wants to use those ugly lefty scissors anyway??), left hand to eat. So, definitely not a textbook case.

 

[lovemygymnast]

When my DD started gym, they had her as a righty & she's right handed but have since found she's a definite lefty. So, she's definitely a minority on her team.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

I am left handed, but play all sports right (or both). Batting is dominant as a righty, but I can bat left as well. Tennis and golf are right dominant. I use my right hand to cut out of necessity (who wants to use those ugly lefty scissors anyway??), left hand to eat. So, definitely not a textbook case.

Hubbie is a leftie, but uses both sides in sport - we have worked out that he is left for skill and right for strength, so bats right, plays snooker left, but kicks both feet (useful for kicking goals in Rugby). However he turns right.

Pink and I are both right handed but left gymnasts.

 

[suebee]

I find this subject so interesting!

Dd writes with her right hand but is a gymnastics lefty. I was the same way. When I did gymnastics, most girls were righty and I was one of a few lefties. On Dd's team, I would say the number of lefties and righties is about equal.

She doesn't twist yet but I think she prefers to twist the right. I strongly prefer to twist left.

Dh writes and eats with his left hand but plays most sports righty (throws a ball, bats, plays tennis, plays golf). When learning something new, he has to try it out with both hands to see which is easier. In general, he thinks he does fine motor better with his left hand and gross motor better with his right hand.

Dh's dad is a lefty, but grew up in a time and place where lefties were taught to eat and write with their right hands. So he eats and writes righty, but probably would do those things lefty if he had been able to choose as a child and plays sports lefty because no one ever corrected him for that.

 

[kandkfunk]

My DD is right handed but has always been a lefty in gym and has been in the minority as a lefty. However, her being a lefty has never been an issue at any gym. They always teach the girls to whichever is dominate. I have seen instances where it isn't clear which side is more dominate with younger kids so they would learn early basic skills from both sides. It eventually worked itself out. I've never witnessed a coach trying to force a child to change their dominance. I've actually seen many coaches work really hard to teach based on the kid's dominant side, even though it often requires coaches to illustrate or teach something that is opposite for them. Some are better than others but I've never seen a coach not try.

Even if a coach does force a kid to change their dominance, for whatever reason, I don't think it's necessarily a plus or minus for the kid. A lot of kids are somewhat ambidextrous and can adapt. You see it quite often with switch hitters in baseball.

The USAG videos are just examples. They are not the final answer for the correct way to perform the routines. It's clearly stated that the text is what matters. There are always errors in the videos, especially once changes are made in subsequent years. Once you are a few years into the cycle, the video is quite outdated. It can serve as an overview, but routines should always be taught to the current text.

 

[Alyssa S.]

...
Even if a coach does force a kid to change their dominance, for whatever reason, I don't think it's necessarily a plus or minus for the kid. A lot of kids are somewhat ambidextrous and can adapt. You see it quite often with switch hitters in baseball. .

I appreciate this; and hope to emphasize this perspective as one of a portfolio of differing perspectives on this issue.

If we presume that the hypothetical Leftie-forced-rightie gymnast progresses to elite levels, e.g., release-and-twist skills, will she reach the same heights? For example, would Gabby Douglas have been just as good if SHE had been forced and stayed, Right RO and Right twist (clockwise)?

 

[Alyssa S.]

DD has two teammates who've always done their compulsory routines reversed. Same with DS. It's not a problem. For both of them, the coaches said that twisting direction would be determined later on and would not be based on the directionality of their ROs and other elements of the compulsory routines. I think DD is righty RO but lefty twister. DS is just starting, so not sure about him yet.

Is this best practice, i.e. to determine twist direction entirely independent of RO direction?

 

[my4buffaloes]

My dh does a lot of sports left handed, but he is mainly right handed. My son is right handed, but automatically batted left when he played baseball. My girls are a mixture - I think largely depending on how they learned in the beginning, but also because even though we all write right handed, my dh and all my kids can do many things just as good or better left handed.

 

[gymdog]

I appreciate this; and hope to emphasize this perspective as one of a portfolio of differing perspectives on this issue.

If we presume that the hypothetical Leftie-forced-rightie gymnast progresses to elite levels, e.g., release-and-twist skills, will she reach the same heights? For example, would Gabby Douglas have been just as good if SHE had been forced and stayed, Right RO and Right twist (clockwise)?

There is no way to answer this hypothetical. Furthermore, I disagree with your assertion that most or many coaches make kids righties. There is no point to it and it wastes time. Occasionally if a child is struggling in some way like cannot get a cartwheel because they are switching their feet, you may have the child go to the other side to see if they can do the motion more accurately on that side. Or if the child is mixing things up. For example I don't think children should do a left handstand and a right cartwheel. If they are doing that, I move them to the direction of their cartwheel. Usually it is no problem for them.

Also, most people have a better split. Typically children will want to kick their opposite leg over (example a right cartwheel kicking left leg over first in their back bridge kickover). They want to stand on their more stable foot. For learning I don't have much of an issue with this, but I have them learn and do exercises on both sides for balance and walk overs. They should do walk overs so they are in their best split, not their worst split. I know people will say they should do it opposite so they can go out of a cartwheel, but I disagree and find that silly. It really doesn't matter, you should be able to do a cartwheel walkover with either leg. But you're really going to sacrifice a back walkover back handspring using your worse split for that? I can do a back walkover on either foot but it would be stupid for me to try a back walkover back handspring on beam with my left foot leading.

 

[Alyssa S.]

I appreciate that. Perhaps there are additional opinions/perspectives?

A friend of mine is coaching now after elite-level competition; and he shared that he was/is a natural leftie but was taught/forced to go rightie (by a famous eastern european) since he was 3. He said without doubt that it did adversely affect him "at the higher levels." From his perspective, it does make a significant difference--Gabby Douglas would not have had the same success if she had been taught/forced rightie. Ironically, that gym continues to teach younger lefties to turn right. I even overheard the current HC state unequivocally that it makes no difference to force a young leftie to turn right, "so long as you do it when they're young....." I don't know about that.

 

[thefellowsmom]

This is so interesting. My daughter is right handed and is a lefty gymnast. Roundoff left, twist left. She is in the minority at her gym, but nowhere near alone. It was a larger gap early on but now in her lv7/8 training group I would say sixty forty sounds about right.

She did just tell me an interesting story that I didn't know. Her strong side for splits is right leg forward but the compulsory routines require everything to go the same way. She said that her coaches (young and talented, yet inexperienced old level four coaches at the time) didn't notice that she was doing her whole routine lefty except going right on her split. About halfway through the season one of the head coaches caught it and fixed it. She was down on both sides so it didn't matter much in her performance but her natural seven year old tendency was to put the better leg out.

I had a hard time controlling my laughter. This explains a lot about the low scores she consistently got on floor that season. I spent much of that season really confused. Not so surprising for a first year team parent, I know....

Just out of curiosity, what is the deduction for switching sides on a skill in a compulsory routine? Is there a similar deduction in optionals or is it ok to use different directions, like my dd's splits on her right side while tumbling left?

It is interesting to think about how the way compulsory routines are presented effecting how a coach teaches. I can't imagine a coach trying to force a kid in their unnatural direction. How frustrating that must be for both parties. But I can see it being confusing for a young coach, just starting out in the JO team world.

 

[gymdog]

I appreciate that. Perhaps there are additional opinions/perspectives?

A friend of mine is coaching now after elite-level competition; and he shared that he was/is a natural leftie but was taught/forced to go rightie (by a famous eastern european) since he was 3. He said without doubt that it did adversely affect him "at the higher levels." From his perspective, it does make a significant difference--Gabby Douglas would not have had the same success if she had been taught/forced rightie. Ironically, that gym continues to teach younger lefties to turn right. I even overheard the current HC state unequivocally that it makes no difference to force a young leftie to turn right, "so long as you do it when they're young....." I don't know about that.

Well I don't think you can teach or force a 3 year old to do much of anything on their non-dominant side. Do you work with young children? Your friend must have been very advanced cognitively to remember to use his non dominant side at 3 years old. I have taught some 3 year old marvels but still developmentally there is only so much you can do/expect. Try teaching the step kick before the handstands in the compulsory routine to 4/5 year olds and you'll see what I mean (for those who aren't developmental coaches laughing/nodding along with me, the compulsory routines require the children at every level to step forward on their non dominant foot, and then lift their dominant foot up before placing it down to do the handstand. This is almost unbelievably difficult for any child under 7 to grasp the first million tries. I color code their feet).

I am quite sure Gabby wasn't forced to do anything, knowing the program she started in. Like 99.9% of coaches, the progressions are introduced and the children model them, picking one side or the other. The coach will watch for technical errors (I.e. Pretty much every child will start doing handstands by placing the dominant foot in front, kicking up, then switching their legs in the air to come down on their non dominant foot. This would be corrected), but does not instruct the children as to which side they "should" use and only makes a change when things are inconsistent or incorrect and the child is confused or not doing the motion accurately (placing left foot in front but twisting body to do righty hand placement).

 

[flippinam]

This is so interesting. My daughter is right handed and is a lefty gymnast. Roundoff left, twist left. She is in the minority at her gym, but nowhere near alone. It was a larger gap early on but now in her lv7/8 training group I would say sixty forty sounds about right.

She did just tell me an interesting story that I didn't know. Her strong side for splits is right leg forward but the compulsory routines require everything to go the same way. She said that her coaches (young and talented, yet inexperienced old level four coaches at the time) didn't notice that she was doing her whole routine lefty except going right on her split. About halfway through the season one of the head coaches caught it and fixed it. She was down on both sides so it didn't matter much in her performance but her natural seven year old tendency was to put the better leg out.

I had a hard time controlling my laughter. This explains a lot about the low scores she consistently got on floor that season. I spent much of that season really confused. Not so surprising for a first year team parent, I know....

Just out of curiosity, what is the deduction for switching sides on a skill in a compulsory routine? Is there a similar deduction in optionals or is it ok to use different directions, like my dd's splits on her right side while tumbling left?

It is interesting to think about how the way compulsory routines are presented effecting how a coach teaches. I can't imagine a coach trying to force a kid in their unnatural direction. How frustrating that must be for both parties. But I can see it being confusing for a young coach, just starting out in the JO team world.

The deduction for reversing a major element is half the value of the skill. So since the split is worth .2, the deduction is .1. In optionals it doesn't matter which side gymnasts split & tumble on They can tumble left & split right with no deduction