Can someone tell me what letter value a double full and a double back are and why one would train one and not the other?
For Parents Double full vs double back
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Double full is a C (as is a 1-1/2 twist). Double back is a D. As for why one would train one over the other - I suspect that some kids are naturally stronger at twisting vs flipping.
So does having a double full limit their ability to enter a college program? I would assume colleges would want the harder d skill ?
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The double back is a technically easier skill to do if you have the strength to do it.
Kids may initially be better at one than the other... just like certain kids learn kips before others. Any coach/club that says kids are either flippers or twisters is working with the most current and modern data from 1922.
At clubs that use a traditional trampoline heavily in their training... almost all upper level kids can do both double backs and double fulls... at least on the trampoline.
Kids may initially be better at one than the other... just like certain kids learn kips before others. Any coach/club that says kids are either flippers or twisters is working with the most current and modern data from 1922.
At clubs that use a traditional trampoline heavily in their training... almost all upper level kids can do both double backs and double fulls... at least on the trampoline.
No... but not having a double back would be a negative strike on your card.
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It only rotates around 1 axis... it's a less complex movement. Double backs are super easy on a trampoline... most of our athletes do them for years on trampoline before they ever do it on floor. Typically they achieve a double back on trampoline 6-18 months before they achieve a double full on trampoline at our gym.
I have no idea about any of it, and why certain skills are higher value than others. I guess you just assume if something has a higher value it must be harder. Again, i can only judge based on my own kid and she has had more trouble landing her double back than her double full. She did get her double back first, she was 10. But, she didn't work them until after that.. All very interesting!
This is interesting because my daughter is a L8 and coach is saying she will do a double full for 10 instead of double back. She’s heart broken because she’s starting to train double fulls in pit and everyone else is going to do a double back. She wants to do the double back because she heard that it’s a more desirable skill for college. I am trying to understand how they now 2-3 years in advance what they will do?
- Jan 4, 2008
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Agreed that a double back is easier than a double full for most gymnasts, and if they have the power in their round off flic in their round off flic to do a double full, then most have the power to do a double back.
But, a double back carries more risk. A messed up double full, will often result in a knee or ankle injury. Which can be pretty horrific and can take a year to heal. A messed up double back, will often result in a neck or head injury, which can be catastrophic and may never heal.
So most gyms will take longer to teach the double back for this reason. If its not solid, it should not be attempted in a competition setting.
But, a double back carries more risk. A messed up double full, will often result in a knee or ankle injury. Which can be pretty horrific and can take a year to heal. A messed up double back, will often result in a neck or head injury, which can be catastrophic and may never heal.
So most gyms will take longer to teach the double back for this reason. If its not solid, it should not be attempted in a competition setting.
I’ve heard colleges teams look for certain skills and so will it effect the ability to get on a college team If they don’t have the double back instead of the double full?
Why does the double back have a higher score value than the double full? And is there such a thing as a triple full? Thank you for your responses. Very helpful.
- Jan 4, 2008
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The Code of points has very brad skill categories. All skills must fit into the labels A, B, C, D, E etc.
You have skills that are rated the same as other skills that are very different in difficulty level, as it all needs to fit neatly into each box. For example on floor and Back tuck, a back pike and a back layout are all A value skills, obviously a good quality back layout with height and body shape is significantly harder than a back tuck, but they are the same value skill, because a back layout is just not right to put in with other B skills. Then as twists are added to a back layout it just steps up, the back 1/2 and full are a B, then the 1 1/2 and double are a C and so on.
Yes, some gymnasts compete a triple full, but this skill is generally only seen in elite. A back 2 1/2 twist is a D (same as a double back tuck) and a back triple twist is an E, in the FIG code of points.
Also in the code of points, certain skills will be awarded a higher value of skill than others in order to encourage those skills. A double salto of some type is required in Elite gymnastics, and the Code of points encourages double salto skills.
You have skills that are rated the same as other skills that are very different in difficulty level, as it all needs to fit neatly into each box. For example on floor and Back tuck, a back pike and a back layout are all A value skills, obviously a good quality back layout with height and body shape is significantly harder than a back tuck, but they are the same value skill, because a back layout is just not right to put in with other B skills. Then as twists are added to a back layout it just steps up, the back 1/2 and full are a B, then the 1 1/2 and double are a C and so on.
Yes, some gymnasts compete a triple full, but this skill is generally only seen in elite. A back 2 1/2 twist is a D (same as a double back tuck) and a back triple twist is an E, in the FIG code of points.
Also in the code of points, certain skills will be awarded a higher value of skill than others in order to encourage those skills. A double salto of some type is required in Elite gymnastics, and the Code of points encourages double salto skills.
I don’t know why your coaches would have already limited the skills she would put in future routines, but there’s probably a reason. My DD can flip and twist; however, she has a tendency to get the twisties when she works higher level twists on floor which leads to vault issues so she mostly flips in her floor routines. Are they planning on twisting on the other events?
I just looked up trampoline skill difficulty and the double back ( rated as a 2.0 )is still rated as a higher difficulty than a double full (1.5 ) .. i was just curious how this rating would be in actual trampoline rules.. and it still shows a double back more difficult than a double full..
There are plenty of twisting passes that colleges would look for... maybe they are working towards the 2.5? Twisting also has tons of combo passes.
@Gymmom2020 Does your daughter have a double back on trampoline? If so... there isn't really a reason to work double backs into loose foam. We have had many gymnasts over the years that very rarely tumble into loose foam. They take their skills from trampoline to tumbl trak on a resi and progress them to the floor from there using rod floor and spring floor to resi.
The video below shows how easy it is to get a double back on tramp. This same athlete is just getting double fulls on tramp right now. Once this athlete has enough power and height on floor... she will just be able to perform the double back. She already has hundreds and hundreds of double back reps on trampoline.
This video show both front and back twisting on the tramp as well as great double flipping / vault drills.
@Gymmom2020 Does your daughter have a double back on trampoline? If so... there isn't really a reason to work double backs into loose foam. We have had many gymnasts over the years that very rarely tumble into loose foam. They take their skills from trampoline to tumbl trak on a resi and progress them to the floor from there using rod floor and spring floor to resi.
The video below shows how easy it is to get a double back on tramp. This same athlete is just getting double fulls on tramp right now. Once this athlete has enough power and height on floor... she will just be able to perform the double back. She already has hundreds and hundreds of double back reps on trampoline.
This video show both front and back twisting on the tramp as well as great double flipping / vault drills.
Making a college team will vary depending on whether she tries for D1 D2 D3 teams. Also, its pretty rare for a college competitor to do all 4 events in college. So, if Floor isn't your daughters strongest event she still has the ability to make the team for the other events. And another thing is how well your daughters routines are put together.. Meaning if she can make it to nationals with a double full in her routine instead of a double back she will still be looked at because she is good enough to make it to nationals.. does that make sense?
I find it odd though that they would just have your daughter train a double full for level 10, it may very well be for level 9? And they may have her also train a double back or pike for level 10. My daughter is a level 10 and has both the double back and double full in her routine.
ahh okay.. that is your thoughts on the db vs db full. I guess i look tangible things to look at and make sense of. I have no idea as i never asked my daughter which one she thought was easier.. From the looks of it for mine at least she was able to get her double full easier and more consistent than her double back. Some of her teammates still don't even do double backs / pikes because twisting is easier than flipping for them. Great convo, thanks for your input!
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