For Coaches Drills for kip cast

[bogwoppit]

I am looking for drills my DD can use to work on the kip cast, she has a great straight arm kip and a nice above vertical cast, but one just does not flow into the other. At gym they work routines, but do no drills on this skill, proably because everyone else has it beautifully. She has access to a spare set of bars during gym time and would like some ideas.

So, do you have any suggestions that she can do by herself with basically no spot?

Also when she casts of the high bar to do a baby giant or layout she immediately pikes, I think she has a fear of not hitting the low bar, what can she do to improve this?

Thanks

 

[Laura]

If she finishes with her shoulders up straight and legs pointing straight to the floor she will not be able to cast without an extra beat. Therefore she needs to make sure when she finishes her kip that she is leaning forward over the bar and piking at the hips so that her toes are forwards of the bar. This will then enable her to cast straight out of the kip.
I hope this advice helps

 

[CoachL]

straight body or straddle cast hs?

 

[bogwoppit]

Straight body, thanks...

 

[Valentin]

Hi

It sounds that her poblem is the standard kip-cast connection problem all kids (well most i guess) go through. Once they snap the leg to the bar the kick/drop their legs down.

What your daughter needs to do is. Once her leg touch the bar she needs to drive them up towards the ceiling as she presses down on the bar (which from what you say, it sounds she has enough strength to do well). While doing this she must use her stomach muscle to try and hold her toes up. So that as she pulls over the bar and leans over she sees her toes or just glimpses them.
Most coaches tell the kids its like pulling up your pants. just upside down.

Have her practice the action, from laying down holding onto something like a broomstick, have her snap her legs to the bar, and then drive them up along the bar, at the same time she is pressing the bar down (hence the pulling of your pants action)..I would use the work press not pull. As she does she will try to rotate over so that she ends up sitting up in a pike with the bar into her hips leaning over it. This mimics the position she needs to finish the kip to cast out of it without a pause (well to cast well anyways). Its even better drill if she does it with weights on the ankles (but only for the drill not for the kip) and she is sitting on the ends of a low boxtop, or raised surface lets say about her knee height.
So that as she is turnining over her legs will be falling down beyond the ground level and she needs to work to keep the pike. If she lets the legs drop down towards the floor in order to stop herslef, then she is just doing what she already does, and its not going to help, but show her what is the wrong thing to do.
It be wise to put a soft mat so that she doesnt have to worry about hitting her heels on a hard surface.

She should do like 10 of these and then try it 5 times on a kip. And repeat. She needs to teach herself the patern.

Most of the time, coaches teach this connection by spotting the gymnast to finish in this piked position and then letting them cast. THis does work and it be good if her coach can spot her for at least 10-20 a session. Until she develops the coordination, strength, and patterning (motor).

What i say is on the assumption that he glide is good. I am also assuming that she is doing the snap part correctly.

But key things :
1- Drive legs up after snap
2- Try and spot the toes once she comes over the bar
3- Work on keeping toes up to cast

Another good idea is she does it on a high bar with straps. it makes the kip action much easier and she can focus on the connection rather then just making the kip and then cast.

 

[blantonnick]

Coaches tip...

'It sounds that her poblem is the standard kip-cast connection problem all kids (well most i guess) go through. Once they snap the leg to the bar the kick/drop their legs down.
What your daughter needs to do is. Once her leg touch the bar she needs to drive them up towards the ceiling as she presses down on the bar (which from what you say, it sounds she has enough strength to do well). While doing this she must use her stomach muscle to try and hold her toes up. So that as she pulls over the bar and leans over she sees her toes or just glimpses them.'

What Valentin has suggested is right, this is the main problem of gymnasts when they learn a kip. Coaches, there is one thing answer to this problem and it has to do with the way you spot your gymnasts through kips on bars:

It is human nature that when a gymnast first learns an action of transferring momentum through opening/closing body angles, to 'use' the spotter to facilitate the trick...what i mean by this is, the majority of kips that are spotted by coaches are - one hand on the mid-back region, the other placed on the underside of the legs (to lift gymnast from below the bar to above). Once the kip is initiated, you (the coach), will feel a strong press down on the hand that is supporting the gymnasts' legs. This press down is exactly what we do not want to reinforce!
Instead, the next time you spot a kip, try to place one hand on the back just as usual, while the other hand that normally is placed underneath the legs, is placed on top of the shins of the gymnast. In the beginning you will confuse your gymnasts greatly because normally they are 'lazy' and let you perform the work. However, eventually they will understand to use their abdominal muscles to press upwards against the hand on their shins and correctly understand the transfer of momentum that develops the kipping action on bars....Goodluck!!!!

 

[bogwoppit]

Wow, that's great advice. You have hit the nail on the head, I watched her video and she ends her kip (ah, there is the clue, the kip ends!!) in support. Though it is lovely it is basically a dead hang.

I will help her to practice the body shape using Valentin's exercise and hopefully she can take it to the gym and practice it on the bars. It is good to know why as she has been frustrated for ages, but I guess if you practice a poorly done kip for two years, even if it looks good alone, it will never lead to anything.

I also like Blantonnick's spotting tip, it makes total sense to encourage the girls to push up on your hand. I fear she will not be getting this help though, I just hope that the exercise and giving her some cues to think about will do the trick.


Thanks so much!

 

[Valentin]

Hi

blantonnick that is soooo true what you say. I do a similar thing to demonstrate to the gymnast that they are using my (the hand under legs ) to push of it to complete the kip. WHat i do is i spot them a few times the standard way as described by blantonnick and i keep telling them the general stuff not to push of my hand, drive the legs up, hold toes up etc... and then i just spot them with 1 hand on the back. Immediately they notice that if the hand under the legs instant there the kip is like 100 times harder haha and they can't do it, or stuggle etc.. It doesn't mean that they will then after do what i want them to do, but they do learn.

What blantonnick sounds like a good drill...i am try that..especially as they are going in the turnover position.
Thanks blantonnick nice call on that one..