Parents Elbow Fracture - Was it Preventable?

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NY Dad

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This is the second thread I’ve started about my DD’s elbow. I’m planning to read my DD the encouraging messages and well wishes from the other thread tonight. (Thanks :))

I’m not planning to share this second thread with her.

First I want to make sure she’s happy and healthy but I’m also thinking about when she returns to the gym.

Nevertheless, she was in the gym in her cast doing conditioning and strength wherever possible. Not only does it help the conditioning it's good for the psyche by staying connected to her team and the gym.
Thanks! (and others that suggested this). I love this idea, hadn’t occurred to me.

I want to make sure she’s in a safe environment. Should someone that’s spotting a cartwheel on beam have been able to prevent this from happening? My understanding is that her second hand missed the beam and she hit her arm on the beam (broke) then landed again on it when she hit the mat. (Still waiting to get a clarification from the gym)

She’s been doing unspotted cartwheels on the beam at her gym for well over a month. As much as she has fears on bars (after she saw a friend fall and break her arm over a year ago), she never hesitated on the beam. She learned on her own on a padded very low beam at home (before I was on CB she could do it). For the last month or two she has told me that she’s the only level 2 that they let do unspotted cartwheels on the high beam. Her normal coach wasn’t there and the coach that was there (works with them occasionally) wouldn’t let her do it unspotted (even though she claims she told him she didn’t need it and she wasn’t comfortable with how he was spotting her b/c she thinks he was doing it wrong.) She thinks she fell b/c of how he was spotting her.

I appreciate any thoughts/opinions.

Thanks
 
These things happen. I know a girl who broke her foot on the skip in her routine. Feet/ankles break from hard landings or just an awkward land. Fingers break on vaults. It just comes with the territory.
 
Unfortunately in this sport, injuries happen. I know you obviously know this already, and this is not being said meanly at all, so please don't take it that way, but...
injuries are very common in this sport...and it sucks.
From one who did a sport where injuries were not as likely to happen, it is hard for me as a parent. And freak injuries happen all the time, like what Committed wrote above. Again, IT SUCKS. And I am so sorry it happened to her when she already had fear issues on a different apparatus...but with good coaching, patience on all of your parts, and time she will rise again.
But no it wasn't preventable; hard as a parent to think that way I am sure. I would reassure your child (because she takes her cues from you and DW) that it was not because of the coach, that injuries happen in this crazy sport. Because she needs to trust the coaches there(and so do you), and honestly, every coach spots differently. And if she does not feel you do, believe me when I say she won't. My kid has to deal with this every week, because there are certain days a different (very capable) coach helps on different events. And the spotting is extremely different, but both are highly effective.
Again, sorry for your child's injury, and best wishes to her for a full recovery. And to help her, yes, get her in that gym asap, because it can help make her strong in all the other areas, keep her mentally in the game as well as physically, and get her over some fears in the process.
 
If you generally trust this coach who was spotting her, then you need to put it out of your head that he/she might have been at fault. As duyetanh said - she will take her cues about trusting the coach from you. You have to present a fully confident front for her. Now, if there have been many accidents with this coach in the past and you are concerned in general, then a talk with the HC is warranted.

But realize almost every gymnast gets hurt eventually. Many times while doing skills they have done hundreds times. And actually it is usually after the gymnast has learned the skill well that the injuries happen. All it takes is one slip. When dd was young, she broke her wrist while doing a cartwheel (regular cartwheel!) on the floor. Something she had been doing for years. It happens.
 
I am going to play devils advocate and say that sometimes injuries are the coach's fault.

My YDD had an injury that I caught on photo/video,and her dr, her pt, her sports dr, and other coaches all told me the coach was responsible for the injury. I knew that already. At another gym they had a coach literally drop my kids on their heads more than once. After she left the gym we found out she had addiction problems and should not have been coaching at all.

I know that coaches are vaunted on here, but I would never discount your gut. I'm not saying it's the case here that it was preventable- I am just saying it's not impossible for the coach to do something wrong.
 
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At States last month I was watching my daughter warm up for bars and I saw a coach working with a girl on hitting her landing by literally throwing her feet first to the ground to see if she could nail the landing. The girl kept crumpling to the mat never coming close to "hitting " the landing. It was beyond bizarre and outright reckless in my book.
 
This is the second thread I’ve started about my DD’s elbow. I’m planning to read my DD the encouraging messages and well wishes from the other thread tonight. (Thanks :))

I’m not planning to share this second thread with her.

First I want to make sure she’s happy and healthy but I’m also thinking about when she returns to the gym.


Thanks! (and others that suggested this). I love this idea, hadn’t occurred to me.

I want to make sure she’s in a safe environment. Should someone that’s spotting a cartwheel on beam have been able to prevent this from happening? My understanding is that her second hand missed the beam and she hit her arm on the beam (broke) then landed again on it when she hit the mat. (Still waiting to get a clarification from the gym)

She’s been doing unspotted cartwheels on the beam at her gym for well over a month. As much as she has fears on bars (after she saw a friend fall and break her arm over a year ago), she never hesitated on the beam. She learned on her own on a padded very low beam at home (before I was on CB she could do it). For the last month or two she has told me that she’s the only level 2 that they let do unspotted cartwheels on the high beam. Her normal coach wasn’t there and the coach that was there (works with them occasionally) wouldn’t let her do it unspotted (even though she claims she told him she didn’t need it and she wasn’t comfortable with how he was spotting her b/c she thinks he was doing it wrong.) She thinks she fell b/c of how he was spotting her.

I appreciate any thoughts/opinions.

Thanks

this is gymnastics. **** happens. spotting is NOT fool proof. and the goal and objective of spotting is to keep the athlete from falling on her head or neck.
 
Sometimes injuries are the coaches fault, but it does not sound like it was the case in your DD's situation.

If she had been doing unspotted cartwheels on beam for a month, it seems quite reasonable that no one was spotting her.

What is more very few coaches would ever spot a cartwheel on beam, you can spot it and some people do but most don't. Beam skills are not generally taught through spotting, but through progressions. The cartwheel on the floor becomes a cartwheel on the line, which might be then done on a foam beam, then the low beam with extra mats, then the low beam with no mats and so on. As the gymnasts shows confident mastery of each stage, they move to the next stage.

Cartwheels on beam are not particularly difficult or risky, but like anything something uncharacteristic can happen which can result in an injury.

If you want to know if a coach/gym is safe there are other aspects to look at.

1. Lots of injuries. If a large number of kids on the team have injuries it is a concern, but it can be a coincidence, so it needs to be looked at more globally, kids are more prone to injuries when they are going through puberty, so even a very safe coach can have more than their fair share at that age. A bigger concern is if multiple kids are expeirncing the same injury, ie a few kids with back pain.

2. How well do they do competitively? If the kids score well in competition it is a sign the kids have safe and solid skills and are not being pushed to compete skills that are above their capability.

3. What is the state off the matting? Are there good quality mats under all apparatus, is there any concrete floor visa ale, is equipment close to a wall? Is that wall padded? Are proper landing mats used? I'm yiur DD's case she his her arm on the beam so this is less preventable but if she was to fall on an u covered beam leg or the uncovered floor, then this would be an issue.
 
My dd broke her toe stepping into a cartwheel. It happens.

I have seen injuries that I would attribute some responsibility to the coach and I have also seen coaches who had no business out there, so it does happen.

But honestly, more likely just a fluke thing. It is unfortunate and part of the sport. Even a cartwheel on the beam can be dangerous.

Trust your gut and ask more questions if you feel you need the answers.
 
If she had been doing unspotted cartwheels on beam for a month, it seems quite reasonable that no one was spotting her.

What is more very few coaches would ever spot a cartwheel on beam, you can spot it and some people do but most don't.
my understanding of the OPs post was that his DD normally does unspotted cartwheels, but that a sub coach insisted upon spotting and then proceeded to do so awkwardly, possibly causing the fall. Apologies if I read that wrong.
 
Thanks, for all the comments/examples/advice/thoughts/well wishes/encouragement…

she will take her cues about trusting the coach from you

I wish I had thought about this when my DD told me she thought it was her coach’s fault. Until I found out this afternoon that my DD had been spotted I had chalked it up to just being an accident. Once I heard my DD blaming the coach I think I automatically assumed she was right. However, after reading the comments and having a little time to digest I think I now need to very clearly remind my DD that it was just an accident.


this is gymnastics. **** happens.

It stinks but well said.

While I am aware of that (I’ve been on CB since Sept so I’ve read about others with injuries) Now that my DD is in a cast pointing a (swollen :() finger at her coach, I got a little caught up in trying to figure out exactly what happened and why. (I should have known better)

I will get her to the gym as soon as possible (which I think it about 2-3 weeks). Doctors are worried about the bone slipping for the first few weeks, we’ll know more at her first follow up on Tuesday.

and time she will rise again.
Thanks for the boost.


Now, if there have been many accidents with this coach in the past
I don’t know, my DD never mentioned any other accidents at her gym so I’m not blaming the coach


My YDD had an injury that I caught on photo/video,and her dr, her pt, her sports dr, and other coaches all told me the coach was responsible for the injury. I knew that already. At another gym they had a coach literally drop my kids on their heads more than once. After she left the gym we found out she had addiction problems and should not have been coaching at all.
I’m so sorry to hear about that, that’s really scary. Also, thanks for your perspective (When I wrote my post I was hoping for various perspectives). In my situation (after some time to ponder) I don’t feel like I have any concrete info to blame anyone. Her gym seems very conservative (IE spotting when it’s not necessary, not pushing kids that don’t want to do something). It’s a real leap for me make an accusation that it was anything other than an accident


At States last month I was watching my daughter warm up for bars and I saw a coach working with a girl on hitting her landing by literally throwing her feet first to the ground to see if she could nail the landing. The girl kept crumpling to the mat never coming close to "hitting " the landing. It was beyond bizarre and outright reckless in my book.
.
:eek:Is there a way to report something like that? I would hate to think coaches are getting away with this type of behavior without it getting reported? Is there somewhere find info on these types of complaints about coaches or gyms (I’m pretty certain there isn’t). Does anyone track the number or type of serious injuries that come out of each gym (maybe the kids that are sent to a hospital or ER?) The gyms must keep records.


objective of spotting is to keep the athlete from falling on her head or neck
This answers part of my question. I through that her coach might have assumed that she would land her hands on the beam so he was keeping an eye on where her feet would have landed. Regardless, your explanation makes much more sense.



Aussie_coach, thanks for giving me a lot to think about, I actually don’t know the answer to most of those questions. As MILgymFAM pointed out
my understanding of the OPs post was that his DD normally does unspotted cartwheels, but that a sub coach insisted upon spotting and then proceeded to do so awkwardly, possibly causing the fall. Apologies if I read that wrong.
I was confused about that and trying to understand better (without placing blame) why she might have been spotted. Based on what you’re saying if the coach didn’t know her well enough or wasn’t comfortable with her doing high beam he would have had her cartwheel on low beam (like the rest of her team) and not spot her on the high beam. I didn’t ask my DD what she meant when she said that he spotted her wrong especially b/c she had also said that she isn’t normally spotted. (as a reminder I've only been to her gym once so I don't know)
 
my understanding of the OPs post was that his DD normally does unspotted cartwheels, but that a sub coach insisted upon spotting and then proceeded to do so awkwardly, possibly causing the fall. Apologies if I read that wrong.

Oh, that is quite a different story.

I can certainly understand a substitute coach insisting on spotting, you always have those gymnasts who insist they do something all the time, and it's not exactly the case. It doesn't hurt for a sub coach to just spot and check and make sure the gymnast is safe.

But if she fell being spotted awkwardly there is the possibility that this coach was spotting skills he/she is not qualified or experienced enough to coach. Again it is a basic skill but if this coach is only teaching Rec or developmental levels they may never have spotted a cartwheel on high.
 
As your dd says she was thinking about the spotting and the fact she wanted to do it on her own , she was likely not concentrating on her cartwheel as much as usual. Distraction is a key element in accidents unfortunately.

The coach was right not to take her word that she does the skill unspotted because at that age they can tell you all sorts. Believe me I have heard it! She likely would have let her move on to them unspotted after seeing how steady she was. That is what I would have done. And yes priority is keeping head and neck off the floor. Really hope she mends well and keeps on enjoying gymnastics.

Encourage her to listen carefully to whatever coach is working with her and to focus really hard every time she does a skill. I'm sure she will get used to working with lots of different coaches and being spotted in lots of different ways.
 
This isn't a common way to get this injury so I have to say I think it probably wasn't preventable. Hindsight is 20/20 and if the coach was subbing they probably should have just had the kids do basics like walks on beam, etc. But at the same time it does strike me as fairly low risk and like it was just an accident. It is possible that the spotting messed her up but I don't know that the coach could have foreseen that. Most likely the coach feels terrible but there is some risk in gymnastics.
 
Thanks again for everyone responses, I really appreciate all of the perspectives. I wanted to follow-up now that I have some more info and I've had some time to stew on this.

Elbow Fracture - Was it Preventable? No
I feel very confident that the coach was not responsible for her accident and that there was nothing he could have done to prevent it from happening. Until I spoke to the gym I was strongly leaning with Jenny's theory
As your dd says she was thinking about the spotting and the fact she wanted to do it on her own , she was likely not concentrating on her cartwheel as much as usual. Distraction is a key element in accidents unfortunately.
While I would like to think my DD is talented enough to recognize a bad spot, she had also told me that her cartwheel on beam was almost never spotted.

However I spoke to her coach the other day (he wasn’t there that day). He was told that she had been spotted 3 times that day and this was the 4th cartwheel and that she was not spotted. I've decided not to confront my DD with what her coach told me. (I don't see what good it would do).

The only other fleeting thought that had been in the back of my mind (which doesn’t even make sense). She had (before the accident) mentioned that when she was learning her BHS (not on beam) this coach said that he was going to spot her and then as she jumped he moved his hand away and didn't actually spot her. (Is this common?) I believe he did this b/c he thought she was capable but had some fear issues. My DD has(had) no fear on beam so there's no reason he would have done that in this case.
 
The only other fleeting thought that had been in the back of my mind (which doesn’t even make sense). She had (before the accident) mentioned that when she was learning her BHS (not on beam) this coach said that he was going to spot her and then as she jumped he moved his hand away and didn't actually spot her. (Is this common?) I believe he did this b/c he thought she was capable but had some fear issues. My DD has(had) no fear on beam so there's no reason he would have done that in this case.

This scenario is what directly led to my YDDs bowing fracture- her coach saying she would spot, giving every indication of (poorly- learned that later) spotting, and then bending over backwards (literally) to not spot when YDD needed it. Sometimes I don't understand people. I'm very glad that in your situation that you feel sure the coach was not responsible for your DDs injury. There is probably nothing harder to deal with in gym than being afraid your coach will get you seriously injured. The lack of trust that follows is poison.
 
t when she was learning her BHS (not on beam) this coach said that he was going to spot her and then as she jumped he moved his hand away and didn't actually spot her. (Is this common?)

When spotting questions arise, I raise again that the meaning of the term 'spotting' is variable... I have seen the term "Spotting" used to describe everything from...

- Physically manipulating/moving the gymnast through each movement of a skill (slowly or quickly) (e.g., moving a gymnast through a complete press handstand)
- Physically moving the gymnast through a single aspect of a skill (e.g., flipping them over in a flyaway after a tap swing)
- Physically shaping the gymnast through an aspect of the skill (e.g., pushing legs together for form in a swing)
- Physically touching the gymnast to remind the gymnast of shaping (e.g., tapping legs to remain tight)
- Being close enough and prepared to physically assist the gymnast through the skill, but may or may not touch the gymnast depending on how well it is executed alone (common on back handspring, standing next to vault table to assist getting over..)
- Being close enough to physically 'save' the gymnast from catastrophic injury from fall, but not to actually help with the skill (e.g., standing next to bars while doing tap swings ready to catch a peel off)
- Standing beside a gymnast on the floor for confidence, but not actually touching
- Watching the gymnast from a distance to spot mistakes

They key, though, is the communication between coach and gymnast. Even if the coach means 'spotting' in one way, if the gymnast feels unclear or deceived, then the coach has work to do to instill confidence and clarity.
 

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