Feeling out of place, but here it goes!

[amphomma]

Hello! I found this site because I was looking for resources to help non-gymnast me wisely guide and encourage my nearly-4-year old daughter who is very enthusiastic about gymnastics right now.

Her enthusiasm is turning out to be matched by some natural ability, according to her teacher. "Little A" started a preschool class three weeks ago and also goes to open gym twice a week of her own desire. At home, she practices everything she can with our furniture and an exercise mat.

Her teacher asked me to bring her to a different class next week, with 5 year olds, because of Little A's skill level, not her age. I wonder if my little girl has found a niche in life or if this will be a passing interest? One of the ladies who works at the gym even took a picture of Little A pushing herself up on a low bar with what she said were "perfectly pointed toes" to send to the owner of the gym.

Of course I'm proud and excited to see just what happens, but because this is *not* my area of expertise (I grew up playing tennis and running), I need to reach out to other parents who have been here and done this.

Little A watches YouTube videos of gymnasts and ballerinas, and then tries to emulate them at home. She has great poise, body control, balance, and flexibility. She and her 8-year old brother are intellectually gifted, as well. I say this because in some ways I think she has the maturity to handle some challenge. She is my daredevil, even compared to her brother. I laugh, too, though, to think of her in a gymnastics class with 5-year olds, because she still sucks her thumb and just a few months ago conquered potty training.

I'll end here, but ask for any wisdom that anyone would like to pass along. Thanks!

 

[txgymfan]

Welcome to Chalk Bucket! We have lots of knowledgeable coaches, parents and fans. Enjoy the gymnastics ride.

 

[Amusibus]

At four years old, you just never know. With us, that is how old my daughter was when they drafted her into "pre-team". 3 years later my god has this gotten crazy! So much money and time...somewhere else on chalkbucket there was this thread about "boiling a frog" - meaning it is like that in gymnastics, at that early stage you just have no idea what you are getting into, and it gets more intense gradually so you don't notice as it's happening but suddenly there you are up to your eyebrows in commitments and things... I guess my only advice is make sure the decisions you are making for you and your daughter are made by the two of you and not by the coaches. One day at a time...deep breath.... and yes, it is fun to watch your kid be good at something, I totally know how that feels. Good luck to her!

 

[txgymfan]

It was a good thread. Here is a link to it. Amphomma I hope we don't scare you off.

 

[Flossyduck]

Welcome to chalkbucket. You'll find lots of experience on here and lots of past threads which might be useful. Most of them will say, that at your dd's age you should be making sure the emphasis is on fun and enjoying herself and not worrying about progressing too much, as she is still so young and who knows if she'll stick with it.

Once they do start to progress to competing, it can kick off and drag your whole family into a gymnastics whirlwind, so enjoy these early days, they are precious

 

[billise]

I agree with Amusibus. Same story with my DD. She started pre-school class shortly after her 4th birthday and they immediately moved her up to a more advanced class. It's now 2.5 years later and she is on level 3 team! DD moved through pre-school class, advanced pre-school class, all 3 rec level classes and pre-team in 2 years! Things tend to move fast if they think a young child has talent. Don't be afraid to ask questions of her coaches as they move her along if you are confused about the process or their plans for your DD.

By the way, my DD who is 6 (will be 7 in November) still sucks her thumb. Thank goodness she doesn't do it at practice anymore though! Baby steps I guess

 

[amphomma]

Thank you, everyone for the warm welcome and the great words of wisdom. Although my husband and I want to challenge our kids to do their best in all they do, we certainly want there to be fun and joy in their activities too!

Right now, that's exactly how it is. I take little A to open gym because she wants to go! She doesn't have her class till Wednesday but tonight (Saturday) she said she wished she could go to the gym today!

I'm very excited to see how her new class goes this week with the slightly older kids. Another reason all of this is so neat for our family right now is because she has pretty strong separation anxiety still, and watching her walk confidently and happily into her class each week is a big step for her.

 

[Deleted member 15064]

Welcome, I'm new here too. And like you knew very little about the specifics of gymnastics starting out & really still don't.

I do love hearing about that moment when a coach brings to your attention that your little one appears to have a unique set of qualities that may suit her for this demanding sport.

Maybe your DD's coach was kind enough to mention lots of $ and time investment if you go the competitive route. Fortunately we at least had that head's up from the start. Bt one thing that seems more difficult to convey is the extreme (deep and wide) family interest that gradually grows into a full blown case of... I don't even know what to call it. Maybe that boiling frog thread will help me find words for it. @txgymfan - can you repost that link? I don't see it.

 

[gymmiemom]

Welcome! Good luck with the new class! I hope your DD loves it.

My DD started gym for her 6th birthday which was in March and by the end of the summer was on team. It has been a whirlwind and I really had no idea what we were getting into. One year later, and heading into our 2nd season, gymnastics has brought a lifestyle change to our family as whole. There is nothing better though than seeing your child find their passion though

 

[iwannacoach]

It was a good thread. Here is a link to it. Amphomma I hope we don't scare you off.

I couldn't see your link so I put this one up. I'll check it to see if it works.

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/threads/boiling-a-frog-progression-from-a-moms-pov.40145/

 

[iwannacoach]

It was a good thread. Here is a link to it. Amphomma I hope we don't scare you off.

- can you repost that link? I don't see it.

I couldn't see it either so I found it using a search engine other than the one provided by chalkbucket. It seems the history only goes back to "the change".......

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/threads/boiling-a-frog-progression-from-a-moms-pov.40145/

 

[iwannacoach]

Now a little advice....

Your child will be as good as she's going to be by the time she hits the age of 12 whether she starts getting serious now, or two years from now....... maybe even three years. One thing starting quite young can set her up for is falling in love with the sport before she's seen the rest of what childhood can offer. In that context, I would suggest you patiently make your daughter drag you through the levels until she's 6 or 7 years old.

It happens that some kids get in deeper than they realize, and some of them get very conflicted about getting themselves out of something that they really didn't want in the sense of what that desire evolved into. Spend that time avoiding the role of frog for the both of you, and remember that since she can't read yet (please let that be true) it's your job to do so and use your wisdom to protect her from her own blind enthusiam. So expose her to a handful of other choices during that span of time to see if she still prefers gymnastics, and then let gymnastics nature take it's course.

 

[Muddlethru]

Now a little advice....

Your child will be as good as she's going to be by the time she hits the age of 12 whether she starts getting serious now, or two years from now.

Ok. I hope I am not hijacking this thread.

I get but at the same time don't get this iwc. So when you say this, does that mean her true potential is now evident at that age, if it isn't there, it won't be, or something else?

 

[iwannacoach]

I get but at the same time don't get this iwc. So when you say this, does that mean her true potential is now evident at that age, if it isn't there, it won't be, or something else?

I think the amount of valuable learning that can be retained and carried into the future by children who are 4, 5, and even 6 years old is limited, as is their skeletal structure and cognitive ability. In that context a child can start getting serious at age 6 or 7 and be within a few degrees of development of a child of similar ability who had started at getting serious at age 4 or 5.

I'll go one step further and say that it's more likely the child who starts later will have journeyed with less stress because they're able to better understand the gym world around them, and have more left in the tank at age 11 than their same age counterpart that started ahead of them.

I'll sometimes look at an advanced child who started, in my opinion, at too young an age (getting serious) and then look at a child who's the same age with the same physical attributes..... and see a greater sense of energy, appreciation, and sense of future accomplishments...... probably because they came along a little later. In my mind it amounts to buying wisely and conserving your wealth until the time comes to make more meaningful purchases with the gym bucks a kid has.

Definition of gym bucks.......The combines reserves of emotional strength, joy for the sport, level of optimism, physical attributes, and concept of self. Add to this something that isn't handed out to every child.... the desire to be as good as they perceive themselves, and to prove it. Now add in the reserves of her parents' psyche and bank accounts. Put all these together to tally up a child's gym bucks. Remember to spend them wisely because when you're out.... you're out.

So returning to the two 11 year olds, I'll frequently see the child with a later starting point catch up to, and sometimes pass the child who started earlier, and I don't think it has anything to do with minute differences in ability.

I wouldn't want you to go away with the impression that a child who got serious at age 4 is going to burn out or be disadvantaged by age 12. I'd rather you had the impression that as long as a child starts by a certain age they'll be able to develop fully as a gymnast and have few years left over to polish, fine tune, and really enjoy being what they've worked so hard to become.​

 

[amphomma]

Now a little advice....

Your child will be as good as she's going to be by the time she hits the age of 12 whether she starts getting serious now, or two years from now....... maybe even three years. One thing starting quite young can set her up for is falling in love with the sport before she's seen the rest of what childhood can offer. In that context, I would suggest you patiently make your daughter drag you through the levels until she's 6 or 7 years old.

It happens that some kids get in deeper than they realize, and some of them get very conflicted about getting themselves out of something that they really didn't want in the sense of what that desire evolved into. Spend that time avoiding the role of frog for the both of you, and remember that since she can't read yet (please let that be true) it's your job to do so and use your wisdom to protect her from her own blind enthusiam. So expose her to a handful of other choices during that span of time to see if she still prefers gymnastics, and then let gymnastics nature take it's course.

Thank you for this advice. I certainly have a lot of hesitation about getting into anything too soon. I am following my daughter's lead right now and because she enjoys the activity so much, I am encouraging it in as safe a way as possible. If I didn't take her to gym class and open gym, she would be finding incredibly daring ways to get her fix of jumps/rolls/upside-downing that I'd rather her learn from an expert.

As for the reading...both my daughter (nearly 4) and my son are very intellectually bright. Both kids could spell our 11-letter last name when they were 2. Our son skipped a grade. Little A can write her name and spell a handful of words. I don't want to be braggy, and I don't want to say that intellectual giftedness gives her the ability to make big decisions for herself in life, but I do want to say that she and her brother do have a level of thinking that is maybe above what their ages would suggest.

Little A also wants to try ballet, so we are looking for a suitable class to add to our week. I think right now it makes sense to let her enjoy this activity that is bringing her out of her shell, adding to her confidence, and possibly developing a God-given ability! We are treading cautiously, and as we are a family of faith, we are prayerfully considering all the ramifications of "going deeper".

 

[iwannacoach]

and remember that since she can't read yet (please let that be true)

Geez, I guess we'll have to start writing in code so she can't jump the thread in an attept to steer everything her way. Yeah, that'll probably work.... until she turns 5 and has figured out how to break the code.

 

[Uglybetty]

I'd rather you had the impression that as long as a child starts by a certain age they'll be able to develop fully as a gymnast and have few years left over to polish, fine tune, and really enjoy being what they've worked so hard to become.[/FONT][/FONT]​

I'm pretty interested in what that "certain age is" iwannacoach? If a child is aiming to reach the very, very top elite - does it matter that they were not doing 20+ hours at ages 7-9? Provided you start in a serious programme at 9 (9 hours with some of the best coaching available) is that early enough do you think?

DD's group is split broadly into two levels and there are two girls I know of in the top level who used to train elite from a very, very young age. They've both had burn-out issues (one health related, one emotional/wanted to quit) And have therefore reduced their hours. I can't help but wonder if they are good examples of why the gym - for the first time in a very long time - is offering a non- elite route to slightly older girls. Many of DD's group are 8/9 and they seem to be developing skills very quickly - probably because they have better listening skills, longer attention spans etc.

 

[iwannacoach]

The older entry kids have more tools to work with from the day they first begin, and that helps them work with less stress. Pressure..... sure fine, as long as it's brief, chosen wisely by the coach, and the child either rises to the occasion, or the coach frames things in a positive light.

I'd say stress is different in that it's daily and long term, lasting days and weeks on end. That (stress) in my mind is one of the most harmful things a child can encounter because each stress event seems to be added to the previous in an "oh no! not again!" context.

The cutoff age is pretty open to each coaches judgement, so it will vary from coach to coach. I suppose those coaches who are inclined to train kids as if they were working toward the olympics are right, in a kinda sorta way, when they say a kid needs to get serious at a very young age. I feel the cutoff for a kid to get serious is, provided they've been training in at least a casual team program, is in the range of 9-11 depending on their physical potential and the nuances of who they are and how they're emotionally constructed.

More desire and determination is always a good thing because kids with that can move through the intermediate skills in a two for the price of one context. I had the good fortune to have worked very briefly with one such child when her mother ask me to evaluate her potential. So I worked with her for two weeks and had a meeting with dm to explain what I'd seen over that interval........

At the time she was in a program that was more geared for compulsory kids than optionals, and she had pretty much topped out that program. What she wanted was something much more, so much so that her mother was having a hard time believing her daughter had that much gymnastics capital. Really, this kid wanted to be an elite gymnast and make the National team, and considering where she was at with her skills, at the moment, a casual observer would have shrugged, giggled, and said "kids, ya gotta love 'em.)

So I sat down with this kid's mother and told her that the child had a boatload of natural ability, a body any serious gymnast would envy, but more important was this kid's desire and level of determination. My opinion was she could, barring serious injury, enjoy a much higher level of gymnastics at a serious club and most likely go on to enjoy a college scholarship. I added that going to a club with elite credentials would make an elite level career a genuine, and likely possibility, but certainly not to count on it, and that making the national team was not something I'd put past her.... but it was only a possibility in the sense that I couldn't say she didn't have a chance, nor did she have a reason not to dream.

Iwannacoach's scorecard:

Compete at higher level yup!

Make it as an elite yup!

College scholarship yup!

National team ...... I suppose you could say my opinion is to never put a limit on what a determined child can do. If not for that, I guess you could say I went 3 for 4 and the kid went 4 for 4. Rats, out done by a kid.... again.

So if I may say so, for those weeks I coached a National team member. I just didn't realise it at the moment...... but I kinda think she knew it all along.

And yes, she got serious at a fairly old age. I can't remember for certain but I'm pretty sure she was 12 at the time and darn near 13 by the time she left the gym she started at...... and was working in the system at what would be the equal to current day L7-8 during the 2 weeks I had her.

 

[Uglybetty]

Thanks iwannacoach, I feel mighty reassured by this. I've struggled with guilt issues over recent months because I (a) resisted DD's requests to start gymnastics aged 5 (I spoke to a world class elite gymnast to ask how old she was when she started and she said 8 so I made DD wait until she was 7.5 to start rec....and in every interview I have since read that gymnast says she started at 6 but took it seriously from 8...ggrrh); (b) was then too loyal to her rec gym....I should have moved her to her current gym much much sooner.

DD's lucky I think body wise....she'll probably reach 5'1". She's very lean and is almost certainly fast twitch ( her 100m sprint is very quick) and she has good strength. She's very dedicated and listens well and corrects herself (often practising at home to perfect a skill for her next session). I'm just praying I didn't scupper her elite chances by dithering too long as she wants it so badly!

It would be great if coaches had honest elite potential discussions like you did with that mother....we're encouraged not to ask and only get vague answers if we do. I appreciate nobody has a crystal ball, but it would still be nice to have an assessment of ability/strengths/weaknesses.

 

[Faith]

If you have a google there's a very interesting video with Noel Van Klaveren (Dutch Elite). She was only training 12 hours a week in a local gym until Junior (so what? 13?), when her gym told her that's as far as they could take her and she should join a big elite gym.

The top Espoir (12/13 years old) in the UK currently started gym at 7.5, and trains 23-ish hours a week.

One of the main reasons we knew DD's gym wasn't 100% right for her is that they wanted her to train 20 hours a week at 8 years old, yet had no plans for her to compete outside our region. For me, that many hours at that age their needs to be some sort of elite plan in her future, or they need to offer a lower hours program (and I mean 12-15 hours still!) so these kids can have a life balance and try other activities.

Everything I read says that it makes no difference whether a child starts gymnastics at 4, or at 7, they will reach the same level.