Free hips: Deduction for piking?

[JBS]

Is there a deduction for piking during the execution of a free hip or clear hip circle?

Please view the following posts before answering:

http://www.chalkbucket.com/are-the-legs-allowed-to-touch-the-bar-in-a-clear-hip-circle

[URL]http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/skills-drills-forum/34433-free-clear-hips-do-legs-touch-bar.html[/URL]

 

[fuzi]

Yes. Per JO code there is an up to .2 deduction for excessive pike or arch in both the upswing and downswing of a clear hip.

 

[JBS]

Yes. Per JO code there is an up to .2 deduction for excessive pike or arch in both the upswing and downswing of a clear hip.

It seems to me that this could be interpreted very differently by two different judges. While an arch like Rebecca Bross's would be excessive for a regular free hip to handstand...is it excessive for high level inbar elements?

Here is the video:Rebecca Bross - Uneven Bars - 2009 Visa Championships - Women - Day 2 - YouTube[video=youtube;WnNfpyrOAOQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnNfpyrOAOQ[/video]​

When you look at a similar skills such as a peach to handstand (men's parallel bars) and a hindorff...is their a more effective development of power using a hollow to pike compression or even an arch to pike snapping motion? If so...I would have to think a bit about the above photo and if it is excessive or not???​

 

[fuzi]

It seems to me that this could be interpreted very differently by two different judges.

Yep. This is why judging is always going to be subjective, why there are such large ranges for allowable scores, and why you use multiple judge panels. The deduction is written in the L6 bar routine requirements, but at the upper levels, could be taken as a body shape deduction. One of the interesting things I have realized at judging clinics is that as the level of the skill increases, your eyes focus on different things. In a level 6, you are looking a lot more at shape. By level 9 or 10, you are focusing on the angle of the pirouette out of their clear hip. Judging is imperfect and you can only see so much so quickly.

 

[JBS]

Thanks fuzi!

EDIT: For some reason the "like" button was not appearing when your post first appeared.

 

[fuzi]

I think, and this is my interpretation, that a pike or arch would be considered excessive if it seems to slow down or interfere with the swing of the routing or if it looks scary. We've all seen the clear hip where the gymnast is arched so much that you think they are going to fly off the bar. When unsure, you give the gymnast the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

the top snapshot is an exact and accepted technique by astute bar coaches. and OF COURSE a certain judge would take a deduction because they're to stupid to understand advanced technique versus "technical" deductions. no offense to fuzi, but this has been an ongoing problem as far back as i can remember. and that's pretty far back. like when you couldn't put gas in your own car...

 

[gymcoach34]

awesome, dunno. I once had a judge tell me that the back handspring portion on my gymnasts Yurchenko was too low on and too archy..........I know a lot of great judges and I know they are only human, I just get frustrated when they judge high level but dont understand technique....

 

[gymalex]

I agree- there are awesome judges, and there are not-so-awesome judges. Just like anything else in life.
As a judge, I think it would be great if there were some restrictions on becoming a head judge....you had to coach kids at the level you're judging who qualified for regionals or something. I think it would help us a lot. You have parents who decide to start judging, or judges who move up but shouldn't. It isn't realistic to expect that the judging tests could truly test your knowledge of the sport. I do think that requiring head judges to have competed at the level or coached at the level they are judging would help a lot. However, then you run into a judging shortage, and it's not like becoming a judge is all that alluring. Long hours, little pay, uncomfortable chairs- it's not glamorous. Most of us do it because we love the sport and want to stay involved, and we truly want to help make the sport better. I guess it's just one of those things...you get some bad with the good. But maybe parents shouldn't be allowed to judge unless they have gymnastics experience themselves. OK, that was my rant.