WAG Full split in walkovers, kickovers and one-legged bridges

[gymnndance]

I have a question that is not too relevant for any JO Level, but I think it is a basic thing I was always interested in.

Everyone knows that the more split the legs, the more beautiful walkovers and kickovers look and the better is the technique. However, some kids seem just not built for having a full split throughout the skill.

So, all of my team kids can do beautiful tick-tocks. Lunge-lift leg-kick to split handstand-weight transfer-open shoulders-tip the ground while legs still maintain a split-kick over and finish.
However, most of them manage to keep a full split just before they touch the ground, then they need to bend the bottom leg and it is not a full split anymore. (PIC "BRIDGE OUT OF WALKOVER")

Why is that?

When I ask them to go into a correct gymnastics bridge with straight legs and shoulders on top of or even behind hands and lift one leg, they will only manage to get the leg to probably 90° (PIC "BENT BRDIGE") but to get into a full split their leg would have to go much further. (PIC "IDEAL BRIDGE")

My guesses would be this is because they can not do a full split with completely square hips? Or is it maybe a strength issue? How can we improve that?

If anyones had time, here is a video about what I want it to look like:

Skill is at 1:15-1:30.

I really hope someone can help me!

 

[Gymmommy71]

To do a full split in skills like that it involves good back flexibility too. Having splits above 180 degrees helps too because the pressure of the gymnasts weight isn't there to "push" them down into the split and most people need that. Many great gymnasts can never do those, but they are very pretty.

 

[sce]

I think your expectations are unrealistic. Those photos we of unusually flexible people. That "ideal bridge" is not ideal, she has her arms on the ground. Also, be careful pushing this too much, as it may force the girls to put too much pressure into the arching skills and hurt their back.

I've seen some beautiful walkover and tick tocks, but when the foot hits the ground the leg is bent. I think this is okay.
My dd has a gorgeous full split back walkover. One of the few on her team. In order to achieve it she has a combination of good back flexibility and over splits. Some girls will never have this and forcing it is unhealthy.

 

[ayyyrial]

In order to get the top leg to split in bridge, you need to have your weight almost completely over your hands. It's almost more of a very archy split handstand than a bridge. Also, incredible static hold flexibility and strength - not just having splits or oversplits. This kind of thing is really not necessary in artistic gymnastics - more of a contortion/rhythmic gymnastics thing.

 

[gymdog]

I totally agree with Ayyyrial. Also, for front tumbling, it's not really necessary and actually better to have the feet tucked under the bottom which means the hips and quads have to open. Shoulders have to open too, but not really beyond vertical.

 

[twinmomma]

You'd hate my daughter. She will never ever look like that. She's a powerhouse tumbler, but she'll likely never have that degree of flexibility. I guess my question is why do you want it to look like that when it isn't necessary?

 

[gymnndance]

In order to get the top leg to split in bridge, you need to have your weight almost completely over your hands. It's almost more of a very archy split handstand than a bridge. Also, incredible static hold flexibility and strength - not just having splits or oversplits. This kind of thing is really not necessary in artistic gymnastics - more of a contortion/rhythmic gymnastics thing.

Thanks a lot! This is what I also thought. It seems more like an arch handstand, relying a lot on that open shoulders to balance the body.

I totally know this is not necessary, I think I kind of wrote that wrong. I do not want my girls to work on that, there are far more important things. I just wanted to know it, simply because I am intersted in that.
What would need to improve on the average gymnast to get there?

 

[gymnndance]

You'd hate my daughter. She will never ever look like that. She's a powerhouse tumbler, but she'll likely never have that degree of flexibility. I guess my question is why do you want it to look like that when it isn't necessary?

Oh no I would not hate her!!!! I kind of wrote that wrong, I was just interested in this topic, because I also like watching contortion videos and it amazes me how the body works - don't want to force my kids to work on that

 

[gymnndance]

I totally agree with Ayyyrial. Also, for front tumbling, it's not really necessary and actually better to have the feet tucked under the bottom which means the hips and quads have to open. Shoulders have to open too, but not really beyond vertical.

Good point!
I do not want them to get there - some might just be that flexible, but I do not want to force it. I was just interested in what the girls who can not do that are missing..

 

[ayyyrial]

or

Thanks a lot! This is what I also thought. It seems more like an arch handstand, relying a lot on that open shoulders to balance the body.

I totally know this is not necessary, I think I kind of wrote that wrong. I do not want my girls to work on that, there are far more important things. I just wanted to know it, simply because I am intersted in that.
What would need to improve on the average gymnast to get there?

I'm gonna go out there and say that the average gymnast would NOT get there. It's a level of back/shoulder flexibility that is unusual. Most people who can do this have a natural propensity for flexibility above and beyond even the average JO gymnast. If you do NOT have a natural propensity for it, it can be dangerous to push too hard, especially for gymnasts who already face a lot of back/shoulder strain. (This is from my impressions as a gymnast, coach, and hobbyist contortionist - I don't have experience in any medical or PT field.)

 

[duyetanh]

Omg....
I hope my kid NEVER gets there. No offense to those who do cirque de soleil and/or are contortionists...but I am glad my little is not that flexible!!

 

[Faith]

I find it really interesting all those who are saying that degree of flexibility isn't necessary in artistic gymnastics.

In the uk we have a separate elite track,and this is exactly what is looked for. To progress on the elite track each year, gymnasts must pass a range and conditioning routine in addition to bars/beam/floor/vault.

Erifilly from the video above was on the elite track. This is the routine for 8 and 9 year olds:

 

[Frase]

I love range and conditioning - my favourite 'piece' to watch at grades.

 

[gymnndance]

I find it really interesting all those who are saying that degree of flexibility isn't necessary in artistic gymnastics.

In the uk we have a separate elite track,and this is exactly what is looked for. To progress on the elite track each year, gymnasts must pass a range and conditioning routine in addition to bars/beam/floor/vault.

Erifilly from the video above was on the elite track. This is the routine for 8 and 9 year olds:

Yes, so true! I know, I love Erifillys videos. She is just amazing, even now at tramp.
Have you ever seen the range and conditioning of Ellie Botterill? She is so georgeous!
However, it just is really not necessary in WAG, you can easily make it to the olympics without it. I think it is also a genetic thing, so why force it if a child is not born to be able to do that if it only causes injury and takes away time from learning other stuff.

Here is Ellies vid-a must watch!

 

[Gymmommy71]

My DD can do a lot of that stuff (not as extreme as the video, but she definitely hits 180 in her walkovers and bridges and can do some mean leg holds and poses on beam ) - yeah, it makes for some really pretty pictures, and oohs and ahhs from spectators, but at most it will get you a few tenths here and there from judges (I know from experience). I just think USA JO scoring really doesn't appreciate flexibilty as much as people think as many girls who score very well don't have the best flexibility. And it almost works against you when it comes to the "power" events like vault and floor. International judges seem to like flexibility a lot more, but then you still have gymnasts like Aly Raisman scoring higher than those w/ beautiful flexibility on events like beam and floor at the Olympics because her difficultly is so high.

Oh - and ETA - we love the videos of that Ellie B. girl. Her technique is what every gymnast should strive to look like if it were up to me, but unfortunately those that make the scoring rules do not agree. Oh, and her floor routine to "Chandelier" is one of my favorites!

 

[gymdog]

I find it really interesting all those who are saying that degree of flexibility isn't necessary in artistic gymnastics.

In the uk we have a separate elite track,and this is exactly what is looked for. To progress on the elite track each year, gymnasts must pass a range and conditioning routine in addition to bars/beam/floor/vault.

Erifilly from the video above was on the elite track. This is the routine for 8 and 9 year olds:

Not only unnecessary but hyper flexibility is counter productive and predisposes the gymnast to instability and injury, and also decreases power. Artistic gymnastics does require flexibility, but really only enough to align the body in a straight line. Active flexibility and power is much more important than extreme ranges of static flexibility.

 

[Jenny]

I find it really interesting all those who are saying that degree of flexibility isn't necessary in artistic gymnastics.

In the uk we have a separate elite track,and this is exactly what is looked for. To progress on the elite track each year, gymnasts must pass a range and conditioning routine in addition to bars/beam/floor/vault.

Erifilly from the video above was on the elite track. This is the routine for 8 and 9 year olds:

that is the old routine. We have a new one now. We got rid of the body waves. Yay.

 

[gymdog]

Although I would note what is seen in the video isn't really that extreme but I find it interesting there seems to be less focus on handstand alignment which is really more important than all the split stuff they're doing (especially since she still had bent knee jumps and legs were not dynamic on the close). We have a very different emphasis in the elite track in the U.S. Although kicks and holds are now emphasized too.

 

[tomtnt]

Not only unnecessary but hyper flexibility is counter productive and predisposes the gymnast to instability and injury, and also decreases power. Artistic gymnastics does require flexibility, but really only enough to align the body in a straight line. Active flexibility and power is much more important than extreme ranges of static flexibility.

It's ironic that the "ideal look" for a gymnast is the wispy/hyperflexible/long lines etc. but the most dominant gymnast of our time is the powerhouse that is Simone Biles.

At our gym, we've lost many of our hyperflexible girls due to injuries or lack of progression at level 9/10s due to the lack of power.

It is the rare gymnast who can combine the hyperflexibility and long lines with the needed power for the high difficulty skills of modern gymnastics

 

[ascarter1]

Not only unnecessary but hyper flexibility is counter productive and predisposes the gymnast to instability and injury, and also decreases power. Artistic gymnastics does require flexibility, but really only enough to align the body in a straight line. Active flexibility and power is much more important than extreme ranges of static flexibility.

Dd, training lv 8, is a super flex-y girl. Just my opinion, but I think hyper flexibility hinders gymnasts more than helps them! Dd tends to struggle on certain skills (back tumbling especially) because she struggles with staying tight. We are hoping she can find the happy middle, one day maybe!