WAG Geddert charged with human trafficking

[Pineapple_Lump]

I really feel for the victims and I hope they are able to share their stories to get some sort of closure if they wish to. I also feel for the athletes who had a good experience/rosey view of geddert and now have to come to terms with the fact he was a monster to many and dead.

 

[gymjunkie]

After reading how trafficking laws were applied to what used to be commonplace coaching in gymnastics...

"John Geddert used force, fraud and coercion against the young athletes that came to him for gymnastics training for financial benefit to him," Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel said during a Thursday afternoon news conference, during which the charges were announced.

I'm thinking that there are many many old school coaches out there who are contemplating suicide right now. It wasn't even that long ago that if you suggested common gymnastics coaching "methods" were abusive, you risked being blackballed by high ranking coaches like Geddert.

Does anyone here remember Geddert's L5 bars presentation in Reno when the latest compulsory routines were being unveiled by USAG? His young Twistars demonstrators were terrified of him. One of them made a simple mistake so he pulled her aside and said, "last time I checked, this was gymnastics, not slop-nastics." He didn't say it with humor. His eyes were downright scary, and you could tell that in addition to being humiliated in front of a huge audience she was going to get in further trouble with him later in private. Good riddance to that abusive coward. When he knew that he would be the one shaking in fear while his sentence was being delivered, he took the easy way out.

 

[profmom]

Thinking today of those in our community for whom this generates more pain and bad memories, especially those who had experience with Nassar or who experienced abusive coaching.

 

[MuggleMom]

I wish there were more direct laws to fight these sort of crimes against children. It seems like such a big thing to accuse someone of "child trafficking" because we all assume it means the "snatching girls from target" sort of thing. It might be intimidating for parents to come forward and accuse a coach of that and intimidating for District Attorneys to try and put together a case where the abuse is still bad but not as horrific as it was in this case.

And with USAG/Safesport dragging their feet with"investigations" I feel like engaging the police is the right action for many as what these girls endure at minimum is often assault or worse. I feel like we should make the police and persecution route more accessible to parents who right now feel like they dont have any options.

 

[profmom]

There's a good article waiting to be written about how internal investigatory and enforcement mechanisms like those demanded by Title IX and Safe Sport are not working effectively. From my academic standpoint, I think part of the problem is that, while they are trying to be truth-seeking and remedial operations, they've gotten caught up in adversarial due process concerns that render them both controversial and overly legalized. That leaves the criminal justice system as the only alternative, and the criminal justice system can only work if injured individuals are believed when they come forward.

 

[mommyof1]

There is a WSJ article that provides some explanation of the trafficking charges. It sounds as if the prosecutor was using a rather novel legal theory to go big and make a statement.

John Geddert, Former U.S. Olympic Gymnastics Coach, Dies by Suicide After Being Charged With Human Trafficking

The state of Michigan announced two dozen felony charges including 20 counts of human trafficking against John Geddert, the head coach of the 2012 Olympic gymnastics team.

www.wsj.com

 

[mommyof1]

To elaborate: in charging Geddert with human trafficking, the prosecution characterized the gymnasts as employees rather than as customers.

 

[MuggleMom]

My understanding wasn't that they were categorized as employees as much as they were coerced and threatened to participate for his monetary gain. But that could just be semantics, I feel like the main crux is that he/the gym made money/profited off these actions.

 

[mommyof1]

My understanding wasn't that they were categorized as employees as much as they were coerced and threatened to participate for his monetary gain. But that could just be semantics, I feel like the main crux is that he/the gym made money/profited off these actions.

You are right--I should have said "involuntary workers" rather than employees. The point is that the allegation isn't that he nabbed them in a highway rest stop and sold them into slavery, which is what most people think of when they hear the term "trafficking." What's supposedly novel is that he was being prosecuted for exploiting the gymnasts for financial gain, rather than just for the assaults themselves. It makes me wonder whether this was part of a larger strategy to draw in other alleged conspirators. Alas, we may never know.

 

[Flippin'A]

I don't expect every coach who has employed the same tactics to be charged with human trafficking, but I certainly hope this acts as a wakeup call to those who are still coaching this way. I was coached by someone who used similar verbal tactics, (although as far as I know he didn't have any allegations of physical or sexual abuse against him,) and he would have laughed in your face if you suggested what he was doing was abusive. There are still plenty of coaches who genuinely believe this is "just how gymnastics is done." No. It's abuse and, as is now made obvious, it is illegal. It's time for coaches to change or move out of the sport.

 

[NutterButter]

I couldn't read the WSJ article because it's behind a paywall but I've read some other articles that explain it a little. Human trafficking is a very personal topic to me as I have relatives who have a parent who was trafficked (sex worker). I wondered if the trafficking charge could be a way to re-frame the way we think about abuse and assign more culpability to not only individuals but also institutions. I'm thinking of some high-profile NCAA abuse scandals and whether that would fit the bill of human trafficking in the sense that it is being applied to the Geddert case (MSU w/Nasser, OSU wrestling, Penn State football). Can an NCAA athlete ever be considered an 'involuntary worker'? I'm fascinated that the prosecution went with human trafficking charges. He was also charged with racketeering...anyone know the context for that?

 

[bookworm]

Can an NCAA athlete ever be considered an 'involuntary worker'? I'm fascinated that the prosecution went with human trafficking charges. He was also charged with racketeering...anyone know the context for that?

In my daughter's case in NCAA, she absolutely was an "involuntary worker" .... full athletic scholarship doesn't give a coach license to the athlete 24/7, 365 days a year , but that's exactly what happened for 4 years. The term "no days off" was in its hey day back then .

 

[cogymmom2dd]

I couldn't read the WSJ article because it's behind a paywall but I've read some other articles that explain it a little. Human trafficking is a very personal topic to me as I have relatives who have a parent who was trafficked (sex worker). I wondered if the trafficking charge could be a way to re-frame the way we think about abuse and assign more culpability to not only individuals but also institutions. I'm thinking of some high-profile NCAA abuse scandals and whether that would fit the bill of human trafficking in the sense that it is being applied to the Geddert case (MSU w/Nasser, OSU wrestling, Penn State football). Can an NCAA athlete ever be considered an 'involuntary worker'? I'm fascinated that the prosecution went with human trafficking charges. He was also charged with racketeering...anyone know the context for that?

I’m sure it has something to do with the exploitation of underage girls that he was profiting of. Or the fact that he was banned from USAG and ‘sold’ his gym to his wife. And, miraculously, in the same month that all of these charges are coming about, they sold the gym all together. So, I’m sure that the exploitation continued despite him being ‘banned’. I’m sure he still had a hand in the pot after he was banned because his wife was still the owner.

 

[bookworm]

I just saw his obituary on line and it's so glowing ... he probably wrote it. The thing that surprised me is that the services are taking place in the Summit Sports Complex....a big public place?! He was just charged with over 24 counts and would've joined his buddy in jail ...I'm surprised the funeral home didn't advise something small and discreet as I'd worry about loud demostrators outside the place ...

 

[gymjunkie]

I just saw his obituary on line and it's so glowing ... he probably wrote it. The thing that surprised me is that the services are taking place in the Summit Sports Complex....a big public place?! He was just charged with over 24 counts and would've joined his buddy in jail ...I'm surprised the funeral home didn't advise something small and discreet as I'd worry about loud demostrators outside the place ...

Can you share it?

 

[bookworm]

Can you share it?

My kids aren't living home anymore and I have no idea how to do that or I'd ask them ...if you go on the Peters and Murray Funeral Home website, it's there . There was a comment that has since been deleted ... I was shocked the comment section was even open .. I'm sure they'll get more similar type comments given what's happened under his watch .

 

[Ginger]

Can you share it?

John G. Geddert Obituary - Visitation & Funeral Information

Share Memories & Support the Family.

www.petersandmurrayfuneralhome.com

 

[MuggleMom]

I've known people that tell a lie so many times they start to believe its the truth...I mostly see it in harmless examples where the lie doesn't really matter either way. I sometimes wonder if that is what is going on here. Do they really believe that this is all just not true? His wife has to know to a certain extent I just cant really fathom this. Same with Nassar he seems genuinely baffled by what has happened....I don't think its an act to get out of trouble I think he *believes* he has done nothing wrong. I just don't get that pathology and its probably a good thing I don't it seems to make for scary individuals.

 

[Tay's Mom]

Oh I agree. Just baffling to me that he wasn't banned just based on the information that came out during Nassar's victim impact statements and the more information brought to light in the months after.

He has been on the banned list since he "retired" in 2018 and turned the gym over to his wife.

 

[Tay's Mom]

I couldn't read the WSJ article because it's behind a paywall but I've read some other articles that explain it a little. Human trafficking is a very personal topic to me as I have relatives who have a parent who was trafficked (sex worker). I wondered if the trafficking charge could be a way to re-frame the way we think about abuse and assign more culpability to not only individuals but also institutions. I'm thinking of some high-profile NCAA abuse scandals and whether that would fit the bill of human trafficking in the sense that it is being applied to the Geddert case (MSU w/Nasser, OSU wrestling, Penn State football). Can an NCAA athlete ever be considered an 'involuntary worker'? I'm fascinated that the prosecution went with human trafficking charges. He was also charged with racketeering...anyone know the context for that?

My take is the trafficking refers to the fact that as coach, he was in a place of authority over the girls on his team. He sent them to Nassar, for injuries, for treatments. His overbearing control on the girls didn't allow them to say no. He had knowledge of what Nassar was doing - so in effect, he was "trafficking" girls to Nassar. The racketeering leads to the fact that he profited from from all of this.