WAG Giant tutorial

[JAO]

For anyone interested, a video on how to teach or learn giants:

 

[bogwoppit]

I laughed at the title, made me think it was going to be HUGE!!!!!!

Will watch I love the detail in your videos. Thanks for sharing.

 

[John Rambo]

Thanks for your suggestion. I really appreciate that you took all this time to try and help us. Keep up the good work. Keep on taking action.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Excellent video. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

great video! my only contrary observation is that bent kneed giant on the low bar. you won't be needing that in all those good drills that you showed.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I was thinking the same thing; the bent-knee giant on low bar seems unnecessary, unless there's some technical element it addresses that I'm just not thinking of.

 

[JAO]

There is a highly and supremely specific, technical need for the bent knee giant: it exists for kids with an irrational fear of the high bar.

My theory is that the bent knee giant on low bar goes really really fast, so that they get acclimated to that speed, then, when you put it on the high bar and they get to straighten out, it feels almost slow by comparison, thereby helping the fearful or nervous kids slow their brains down so they can concentrate instead of being overwhelmed.

No, it's not necessary for every kid, but it's included as one working tool in a coach's toolbox.

 

[gymdog]

If they bend their knees to their chest on the upswing (Personally I would make then fall long on the downswing from handstand ) then it makes a lot of kids better able to maintain a rounded upper back and open shoulders. I don't think it's strictly necessary but I do think this tool to achieve the best position in handstand more easily is underutilized.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

There is a highly and supremely specific, technical need for the bent knee giant: it exists for kids with an irrational fear of the high bar.

My theory is that the bent knee giant on low bar goes really really fast, so that they get acclimated to that speed, then, when you put it on the high bar and they get to straighten out, it feels almost slow by comparison, thereby helping the fearful or nervous kids slow their brains down so they can concentrate instead of being overwhelmed.

No, it's not necessary for every kid, but it's included as one working tool in a coach's toolbox.

tell Conrad i said hello.

you pointed out that it is your theory. actually, when you tuck your legs you swing faster (rotary) because the body (axis) becomes shorter. all things being equal.

also, the finished product finds her doing the giants on bars that are spread all the way out. it is important for everyone to understand that doing giants with the bars spread all the way out is equal to them doing them on a boys high bar. this is why i keep insisting that the bars be as near FIG as one can tolerate. they have to do more than giants. they have to go from bar to bar.

nevertheless, your video was a good and thorough tutorial.

 

[profmom]

LOL, there is a huge fight between the coaches in DS's program over bent-leg/tuck giants as a useful step in the progressions. One swears by them, one loathes them, and the third ducks and covers whenever the topic comes up. Glad to see it's not just them!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

tuck giants are REALLY good for breaking in grips, though.

 

[iwannacoach]

....... the finished product finds her doing the giants on bars that are spread all the way out. it is important for everyone to understand that doing giants with the bars spread all the way out is equal to them doing them on a boys high bar. this is why i keep insisting that the bars be as near FIG as one can tolerate........

Just putting this out for discussion. Back in the days when giants were just beginning to edge toward common place in the JO program, the widest bar setting was about 15 inches narrower than today's fig setting. Even with this disadvantage we were still able to teach this skill to kids of all sizes, and had a few kids learn them who were pushing 5'4".

They point is that while an optimum downswing will allow blind changes, Tkachevs, et al, there's no need to have that much swing speed entering the tap phase. I'd even say that kids learning giants do better in the long run when they have less downswing. My reasoning is that the slower swing gives them a better chance to concentrate on the timing, shapes into and out of the tap, and gives the a reason to create and maintain with muscular tension their hip and shoulder angles through a greater part of the upswing.

Another aspect of using less swing to teach this skill is the centrifugal forces created by swinging in an arc are increased by the speed of the swing. That force must be countered by the gymnast if they want to maintain the circular (elliptical) path of the skill to direct their mass over the top of the bar. If you ask me, I'd say that increasing downswing complicates the learning process by requiring a beginner to cope with the forces on their hands/grips, the counter effort of the centrifugal force (centripetal force), and making the sequence of movements take place faster than is needed to learn the skill.

The drill used at 1:39 addresses this very well.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Giants are giants, teach them correct from the beginning I say, meaning no belly popping out on the way up and over. Once the giant is mastered, It is important for kids to learn both straight/straddle, and a variety of taps. That's my 2 cents.

 

[LizzieLac]

2 question for coaches:

Is it necessary or even more desirable to teach/learn giants by using straps?

How much spotting is needed with teaching giants (thinking about bigger kids and the challenge of controlling them when they weigh 100-130 pounds?

 

[Gymsanity]

tell Conrad i said hello.

you pointed out that it is your theory. actually, when you tuck your legs you swing faster (rotary) because the body (axis) becomes shorter. all things being equal.

also, the finished product finds her doing the giants on bars that are spread all the way out. it is important for everyone to understand that doing giants with the bars spread all the way out is equal to them doing them on a boys high bar. this is why i keep insisting that the bars be as near FIG as one can tolerate. they have to do more than giants. they have to go from bar to bar.

nevertheless, your video was a good and thorough tutorial.

Correct me if I'm wrong JAO, but I believe your theory wasn't whether tucking your legs makes you go around the bar faster, but rather tucking your legs does make you go faster, therefore 'giant on low bar goes really really fast, so that they get acclimated to that speed, then, when you put it on the high bar and they get to straighten out, it feels almost slow by comparison, thereby helping the fearful or nervous kids slow their brains down so they can concentrate instead of being overwhelmed.' I agree completely and do the same. When first learning we try and go as fast and do as many as possible until they look like a blur. Good for courage, vestibular, spacial awareness, and fun!
As for the bar setting, I know that is a progression as well. Single bar first, unevens so far apart that even when the athlete is fully extended they couldn't hit, finally keep working them in as their timing, shape, and confidence improves.
Great video and nice for you to take the time and effort to post. The internet could use some more useful vids such as yours.

 

[Gymsanity]

2 question for coaches:

Is it necessary or even more desirable to teach/learn giants by using straps?

How much spotting is needed with teaching giants (thinking about bigger kids and the challenge of controlling them when they weigh 100-130 pounds?

Necessary? No. Desirable? Heck yes!! I could start a fire with two sticks, but I'd rather use a lighter! It's all about having the right tool for the right job, and a strap bar is definitely the right tool. It's especially important when you are talking about kids as heavy as you mentioned. If a 'little one' comes 'unhinged' at the bottom, not too hard to save, 130lbs. comes unhinged and someone better call 911 (for me!).

 

[Deleted member D3987]

not exactly, Gymsanity. when the kids straighten out their legs, and whether they straddle or keep legs together, more torque is created at the direct bottom of the swing. the gravity load at the bottom is immense. it is THIS pull at the bottom that freaks out the kids the most versus how fast they travel around the rail. i know this not only from a pedagogical and educated point of view, but also from experience. i was a gymnast that did rings and high bar. the pull at the bottom in a tucked giant is negligible.

as coachp stated, it is best to teach them right from the start. as i stated, the tutorial was very thorough and complete. the tuck giant did not need to be included.

and i agree that strap bar is useful also but not necessary in all cases.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

and Jason is a very good young coach by the way. (i think i'm remembering his name correctly)

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Since this thread is about a giant tutorial video and not about comparing levels of coaching expertise and experience, I deleted a few posts.

 

[JAO]

I think it's a little bit presumptuous to say that any one particular reason is the only reason a kid would be afraid of something. Gymsanity, you are correctly interpreting my explanation of my theory: I wasn't question whether or not the tuck giant goes faster, I believe that it does, and that IN going a bit faster, kids get acclimated to speed. The same reason I do propeller back hip circles. If they do enough in a series, they start to recognize when/where they are (after they get used to not getting dizzy). This then makes 1 back hip circle seem less intimidating. Same with giants.

Yes, a straighter, longer fall does include more torque, but if the kid is afraid of the drop and "fights" the drop (either with an arched shape or by closing shoulders, or by jumping and regrasping/hopping her hands around the bar) she'll never experience that torque anyway because she killed the swing.

So, tuck giants, on a low bar. Which, again, exists for the girls with a supreme fear of the high bar. Falling or peeling off the low bar is a lot safer than the high bar, so if we're going to make mistakes, let's make them on the low bar first, and the only way to do a giant on the low bar is to bend your knees.

Basically, it's like doing a back handspring on low beam first. As long as the shape isn't counter-productive, and as long as the drill has more net positives than negatives, it's a good idea. If you ultimately think that it has more negatives than positive, you're certainly entitled to, but I guess we just disagree on the math.