WAG Grace McCallum?…… (US Olympic Team Discussion)

[bogwoppit]

That is the point, this is a message board after all. Where fans and like-minded folks discuss and dissect decisions like the ones that are supposed to be made by team coordinators. It has nothing to do with individual gymnasts, and at least I have been very clear about that from the beginning. Its perfectly fine to debate if the right decisions were done. Think of it as an academic discussion.

Debate is great, honest and open. But browbeating folk because they do not agree is not discussion.

Over the 14 years I have been here I have seen all kinds of stuff go down, but the best discussions are the one where we share, and not the ones where we attack.

 

[gym_dad32608]

A disaster? The US team finally exposed to international scoring, with international judges, hardly a disaster, just reality bites. Anyone who watches elite international gym knows that over scoring in the US is a very real issues. Poor landings, body shapes and inadequate leaps/jumps are going to get slammed.

No, way would Skinner have been a better option. The team as presented was just fine. A real shame Chiles struggled, but she has more going on than just the Olympics.

Perhaps the girls would be better served if they actually competed outside the US?

Moreover, the downfall of USAG, and lack of trust in them by the girls, does not help at all.

I thought the team did great, as great as they ever do at home, they are just facing reality, and some extremely talented competition.

A couple of things,
1. correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't Simone and Grace had significant international experience?
2. the numbers clearly say Skinner would have been the better statistical option than Grace. I challenge you to show me a calculation that doesn't show that. Now the team coordinator has the discretion of choosing those spots and he obviously felt a particular reason for Grace which has been the cause of much debate on this topic. But in the same way that it can be reasonably debated that Grace was a good choice, I would say you are blind if you say "no way" Skinner would have been a better option. Certainly would not have been the case during qualification.

 

[gym_dad32608]

Debate is great, honest and open. But browbeating folk because they do not agree is not discussion.

Over the 14 years I have been here I have seen all kinds of stuff go down, but the best discussions are the one where we share, and not the ones where we attack.

I dont think Ken has been attacking anyone. I think he (assuming he) is frustrated about the general response, perhaps cynical, but not attacking.

 

[Eleven sol]

Hey, I like Mikayla, but she was fifth at the Trials, not fourth. If she had been fourth my guess is she would have made the team. I was rooting for her to hold onto fourth because I would have liked to see her on the team myself.

Obviously you like Mikayla. But even she herself commented in Golden that the process for selecting the Olympic team was much better. It wasn’t closed doors, who do we like better, who follows our rules, that kind of contest Mikayla was always gonna lose. She understood the most recent decision, seemed relieved by Tom’s process, and was grateful to be out there competing and having her chance. Jade just beat her out on vault.

 

[Eleven sol]

Also I can’t control the amount of likes I get. I’m the parent of an Xcel gymnast, not a gymnastics “insider.” I watched a few documentaries, saw Mikayla compete with my gymnast, and read a bunch of autobiographies and news articles. This is just my opinion. Obviously there are other opinions that are equally valid. Have at it.

 

[Deleted member 26718]

Obviously you like Mikayla. But even she herself commented in Golden that the process for selecting the Olympic team was much better. It wasn’t closed doors, who do we like better, who follows our rules, that kind of contest Mikayla was always gonna lose. She understood the most recent decision, seemed relieved by Tom’s process, and was grateful to be out there competing and having her chance. Jade just beat her out on vault.

What I'd like are clear and consistent rules, communicated to the athletes. What I'd like is fairness to all athletes. What I'd like is the best team being chosen. The stats said MyKayla would have rounded out the best team. That mathematical prediction was just backed up at quals. If the numbers had favored Grace or Jade or Morgan or Riley or anyone else I'd have advocated for them instead.

What I'd like now is for Tom to be fired, because he can't do his job correctly.

Want more evidence? How about the recent tweet from Morgan Hurd, in response to the latest 'Golden' where Tom was on camera saying Morgan had needed to finish top 3-4 on an event in championships to move on to trials. Morgan's response: "news to me."

 

[amiandjim]

Here is the issue with Skinner on the main team. Jordan had a rough qualification, especially beam and bars. Let’s say her next couple training sessions are also rough on beam and bars. So….you need someone else to do those in the team final. You want that to be Skinner or Grace??? Yes, Skinner could have gained a couple tenths in qualifying, but she wouldn’t be able to make those up in the final on those two events, especially since Grace has a flukey error on beam and didn’t get credit for her dance series. Grace on the main team makes more sense because she can do all 4 events and typically score decently, so can be used anywhere.

 

[Deleted member 26718]

Olympic qual scores: (* indicates was used for team score)
(parentheses in vault is / would be the vault for team score)

Floor:
Biles 14.133 *
Carey 14.100
Chiles 13.566 *
Skinner 13.566 = +0.1 vs. Grace
McCallum 13.466 *
Lee 13.433

Vault:
Biles 15.183 (14.966)*
Carey 15.166 (15.166)
Skinner 14.866 (14.933) = +0.4 vs. Grace
Chiles (14.700)*
McCallum (14.533)*
Lee (14.333)

Beam:
Lee 14.200 *
Biles 14.066 *
Skinner 13.233 = +0.167 vs. Grace
McCallum 13.066 *
Carey 12.866
Chiles 11.566

Bars:
Lee 15.200 *
Biles 14.566 *
Carey 14.133
McCallum 14.100 *
Skinner 13.666 = -0.434 vs Grace
Chiles 12.866

Overall +0.233 vs. Grace

Your scenario is hand-picked. Yes Grace won on bars. It's still outweighed by MyKayla's other gains for the team. What scenario am I missing. Show the points for it.

 

[amiandjim]

How is it hand picked when it’s what literally occurred?? And, as I said, Grace lost 0.6 in D score on beam on a fluke on beam because she didn’t get credit for her dance series. I would not expect that to happen again.

 

[amiandjim]

Tokyo 2020 Summer Olympics - Athletes, Medals & Results

Relive the moments that went down in history at the 2020 summer Olympics in Tokyo. Access official videos, results, galleries, sport and athletes.

olympics.com

As we see, this the exact scenario. If Mykayla were on the main team, this would not be an option, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 26744]

I think Grace is a great gymnast and she's doing very well but at the same time her performances don't really draw me in.

 

[mommyof1]

This whole discussion appears to be fueled by some sort of personal animus against McCallum. The amount of venom is ... perplexing.

 

[Deleted member 26744]

This whole discussion appears to be fueled by some sort of personal animus against McCallum. The amount of venom is ... perplexing.

I hope my post didn't come off this way. I honestly haven't read much of all the pages in this thread, I am just posting my thoughts from what I've seen of her (the latest nationals, trials and olympics). I just wish she showed a little more emotion on her face when performing floor.

 

[mommyof1]

I hope my post didn't come off this way. I honestly haven't read much of all the pages in this thread, I am just posting my thoughts from what I've seen of her (the latest nationals, trials and olympics). I just wish she showed a little more emotion on her face when performing floor.

Not directed at your post at all!

 

[amiandjim]

Actually, I think it’s more just the “pro-Skinner” attitude that’s all over social media than anti-Grace.

 

[Agymnast]

Whoever is anti-grace can you pls explain how it has come to be that Grace is doing AA in the team final? She is so useful on every single event!
And for those saying Jade should have been on the team... well she didnt show her potential by trials so you can't blame tom for what he did.
Anyways what is done is done so pls stop arguing about the past!

 

[gymgal]

I hope my post didn't come off this way. I honestly haven't read much of all the pages in this thread, I am just posting my thoughts from what I've seen of her (the latest nationals, trials and olympics). I just wish she showed a little more emotion on her face when performing floor.

When she is competing she always looks like a "deer in headlights" or like she is about to lose it emotionally, which is weird because when she is hanging with the team, she looks so relaxed and full of smiles. She does seem to handle the pressure will though, despite her facial expressions when competing

 

[Deleted member 26718]

How is it hand picked when it’s what literally occurred?? And, as I said, Grace lost 0.6 in D score on beam on a fluke on beam because she didn’t get credit for her dance series. I would not expect that to happen again.

No... to justify saying Grace is more of a benefit to the team than MyKayla (contradicting the results) I had assumed you hand-picked a scenario where Grace would not be used on all events, but only bars and some others. Assumed, since, that's the only scenario where the quals results would favor Grace. "It's literally what occurred" - are you referring to Grace being used on bars instead of Jordan? Because, again, no. Grace is being used in all 4 events. I showed the points. With MyKayla instead of Grace on all 4 events our team would have had +0.233 in quals.

Then you move to what you "expect." "I don't expect that (beam score) to happen again." Amazing.

So essentially, you just draw your conclusion in advance that Grace was the right choice, insist the math supports it, then when I show the math doesn't support it you say "I don't expect that will happen next time." That's just so disingenuous.

The math says MyKayla should have been on the team. That's a fact. You can have whatever opinion you want. But you don't get to say the math supports your opinion when it does not.

Well I mean, you can SAY it. And others can keep saying it. And then I have to be the one to show the numbers that demonstrate it's not correct. And be the forum pariah for doing so. And I don't care who is on my side, because the numbers are on my side.

Whoever is anti-grace

I'm not anti-Grace. I'm pro-math.

 

[amiandjim]

What you aren’t understanding is, it’s not always about math. It’s about looking ahead and running scenarios. I care ZERO about what Myk would have added in quals because it doesn’t matter. Enzyme matters is qualifying to finals, and having the Mac number in each final, and then how the team does tomorrow. That’s what I’m talking about. If Myk had been on the team, there would not have been the option to allow Chiles to not do bars or beam. THAT is the entire point of having Grace. If you can’t see that, I don’t know what else to say.

 

[gym_dad32608]

This whole discussion appears to be fueled by some sort of personal animus against McCallum. The amount of venom is ... perplexing.

Actually, I think it’s more just the “pro-Skinner” attitude that’s all over social media than anti-Grace.

Sigh, I believe you are confusing an honest discussion about strategy/approach to selecting the best team possible with some kind of bias against or for athletes. This has nothing to do with Skinner or Grace. You could easily say athlete A and athlete B. Athlete A being a decent all-arounder and Athlete B being an event specialist. So which one do you select in a 3 up 3 count team? The academic debate comes down to if you think the all-arounder while not scoring higher than the event specialist in those particular events, will score higher across the 4 events. Making up any ground lost on the events that they are not as good as the specialist.