He Kexin may not be old enough for Beijing

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lannamavity

Member
Sep 13, 2007
409
way out West
I posted this earlier:
And another fascinating point. In 1992, Shannon Miller lost the title to Kim Gwan Suk (or something like that) from Korea. In 1993, when it was realized she had been registered as 15 for 3 years running, the team was barred from worlds. Yet she was never stripped of her medal-they were caught CHEATING and even admitted she was only 11 years old or something ridiculous. That's sick. It would be like allowing Marion Jones to keep her Olympic gold after admitted to doping. It's just wrong.

Bottom line: even if there is enough proof, who know if anything will come of it besides world-wide disrespect for the Chinese.

Are you kidding me? You just said that Kim Gwang Suk was 11 years old! You are going to walk up to someone and take away their medal because their nation forced them to lie and say that they were 15 when they were 11? It's a little different...no, a LOT different than Marion Jones.

I'm not defending lying about ages...but it's starting to sound like people are just jealous that the Chinese may have cheated, and the US didn't get to. How about being grateful that at least we live in a place where, to some extent, an effort is made to follow the rules and respect the bodies and minds of these young girls.
 

MdGymMom01

Active Member
Mar 5, 2008
2,233
North America
We can debate this age issue till the cows come home. Whether the chinese cheated or not, we will probably never know. But one thing is certain--karma is a b!tch and what goes around comes around. We are already seeing how the chinese women are somewhat faltering in the event finals. It could very well be due to age and inexperience of these young girls.

But, isn't it funny how the coaches chose younger less experienced athletes because they have the skill and difficulty, but in the end, being "young" didn't help them--age and experience played a major factor in their not being able to get the job done in key moments in the All-Around, Vault and Floor finals. So, if they are using age-ineligible girls, then that decision will come back and bite them. We are seeing that it already has.

We still have bars and beam to get through so we will see how the chinese hold up.
 
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kgymn

Gymnast
Aug 3, 2008
324
Virginia
Are you kidding me? You just said that Kim Gwang Suk was 11 years old! You are going to walk up to someone and take away their medal because their nation forced them to lie and say that they were 15 when they were 11? It's a little different...no, a LOT different than Marion Jones.

I'm not defending lying about ages...but it's starting to sound like people are just jealous that the Chinese may have cheated, and the US didn't get to. How about being grateful that at least we live in a place where, to some extent, an effort is made to follow the rules and respect the bodies and minds of these young girls.


Because it's not fair to these young ladies both in the USA and other countries that they are following the rules and are potentially missing out on their dreams because another country is cheating. I understand your point that the country should be punished not the athlete, when it wasn't the athlete's choice. But that's not the point.

The point is if countries like China continue to lie about ages, it continues to be unfair for the young WOMEN who have put their heart and soul- willingly- into this sport and play by the rules. If they aren't stopped, and are not held accountable for their actions (and by this I mean the country) they will not stop.

I think it's pretty safe to say the Chinese athlete's aren't competing for medals because they WANT to but because they have no real choice. Taking a medal away would hurt their country more than it would hurt the athlete, but either way.

Plus this isn't that the Chinese "may have" cheated- there's waaaay to many places that indicated some of these athletes are much younger than stated. Consistent sources, numerous ones giving the SAME REAL AGE for the same athlete and the *only* the one stand alone place saying they are eligible being a passport issued by a government that takes kids at THREE years old to train. This isn't a case of "oh hey this girls look young!" because generally asian faces do tend to look younger than their European or American counterparts, bone structures are smaller etc. Fine, I could accept that they look younger than they are. What the problem is, is that these girls were one age no matter who you asked last year, or six months age even, and suddenly a couple months age they were more than a year older.

I, personally, would be just as disgusted and upset by the faked ages even if the Chinese team had not won the gold. Even if USA took Gold and China got silver, or even bronze. I would have been just as upset as if the USA team had faltered and finished out of the medals. It's not fair to the other countries ALL OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES and *especially* the other countries not just the USA.

I don't think it would be right to take their medal away, no I don't even see what good that would do the athletes who would move up and get a medal or higher medal, it just doesn't feel earned at that point. But this sort of rule breaking should not have been allowed in the first place, at all. It is completely against the spirit of the Olympic Games, it is inexcusable. And I for one am not going to sit back and think "Oh well what's done is done." Someone needs to be held accountable.

EVERY sport has the same principle- whichever team or athletes does the best UNDER THE RULES wins. We don't just say "well this athlete is amazing but her beam routine is ten seconds over the time limit but still look what she does in those ten seconds!" that's not how the sport works. Age limits are one of the rules of the sport.

I guess we will see in four years with the new athlete registration system and the new qualifying rules what happens.

~Katy
 

lannamavity

Member
Sep 13, 2007
409
way out West
We can debate this age issue till the cows come home. Whether the chinese cheated or not, we will probably never know. But one thing is certain--karma is a b!tch and what goes around comes around. We are already seeing how the chinese women are somewhat faltering in the event finals. It could very well be due to age and inexperience of these young girls.

But, isn't it funny how the coaches chose younger less experienced athletes because they have the skill and difficulty, but in the end, being "young" didn't help them--age and experience played a major factor in their not being able to get the job done in key moments in the All-Around, Vault and Floor finals. So, if they are using age-ineligible girls, then that decision will come back and bite them. We are seeing that it already has.

We still have bars and beam to get through so we will see how the chinese hold up.

Interesting theory, but the Chinese athlete who screwed up so far in event finals is the oldest one, multiple World Champion, and way past the eligible age. We'll see if your theory stands up in bar and beam finals.

I think the real losers are the hundreds of little girls who never got to compete and were thrown off the team years ago after being beaten up through their formative years. The ones who actually compete are the ones who survived relatively unharmed.
 

Ingymmom

Active Member
Jul 12, 2007
967
We can debate this age issue till the cows come home. Whether the chinese cheated or not, we will probably never know. But one thing is certain--karma is a b!tch and what goes around comes around. We are already seeing how the chinese women are somewhat faltering in the event finals. It could very well be due to age and inexperience of these young girls.

But, isn't it funny how the coaches chose younger less experienced athletes because they have the skill and difficulty, but in the end, being "young" didn't help them--age and experience played a major factor in their not being able to get the job done in key moments in the All-Around, Vault and Floor finals. So, if they are using age-ineligible girls, then that decision will come back and bite them. We are seeing that it already has.

We still have bars and beam to get through so we will see how the chinese hold up.

Playing the devils advocate here... but what if the CHN gymnasts really ARE age eligible - does that mean that Karma comes back and bites those that doubted and belittled them - and called them "cheaters"?

Bottom line is that this is where they are now. IOC allowed them to compete, it is what it is. This was their fate, their destiny - and I for one, am proud of all of them. I am thrilled I had the opportunity to see (if only on TV) them compete in their country and make history by winning their 1st team gold.
 

lannamavity

Member
Sep 13, 2007
409
way out West
Because it's not fair to these young ladies both in the USA and other countries that they are following the rules and are potentially missing out on their dreams because another country is cheating. I understand your point that the country should be punished not the athlete, when it wasn't the athlete's choice. But that's not the point.

The point is if countries like China continue to lie about ages, it continues to be unfair for the young WOMEN who have put their heart and soul- willingly- into this sport and play by the rules. If they aren't stopped, and are not held accountable for their actions (and by this I mean the country) they will not stop.

I think it's pretty safe to say the Chinese athlete's aren't competing for medals because they WANT to but because they have no real choice. Taking a medal away would hurt their country more than it would hurt the athlete, but either way.

Plus this isn't that the Chinese "may have" cheated- there's waaaay to many places that indicated some of these athletes are much younger than stated. Consistent sources, numerous ones giving the SAME REAL AGE for the same athlete and the *only* the one stand alone place saying they are eligible being a passport issued by a government that takes kids at THREE years old to train. This isn't a case of "oh hey this girls look young!" because generally asian faces do tend to look younger than their European or American counterparts, bone structures are smaller etc. Fine, I could accept that they look younger than they are. What the problem is, is that these girls were one age no matter who you asked last year, or six months age even, and suddenly a couple months age they were more than a year older.

I, personally, would be just as disgusted and upset by the faked ages even if the Chinese team had not won the gold. Even if USA took Gold and China got silver, or even bronze. I would have been just as upset as if the USA team had faltered and finished out of the medals. It's not fair to the other countries ALL OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES and *especially* the other countries not just the USA.

I don't think it would be right to take their medal away, no I don't even see what good that would do the athletes who would move up and get a medal or higher medal, it just doesn't feel earned at that point. But this sort of rule breaking should not have been allowed in the first place, at all. It is completely against the spirit of the Olympic Games, it is inexcusable. And I for one am not going to sit back and think "Oh well what's done is done." Someone needs to be held accountable.

EVERY sport has the same principle- whichever team or athletes does the best UNDER THE RULES wins. We don't just say "well this athlete is amazing but her beam routine is ten seconds over the time limit but still look what she does in those ten seconds!" that's not how the sport works. Age limits are one of the rules of the sport.

I guess we will see in four years with the new athlete registration system and the new qualifying rules what happens.

~Katy

I, too, wish that the rules were absolute and always created an equal playing field...but we are talking about competition between countries from all over the world. There are vast cultural differences and values to consider and the OTC...while a shady organizaton at times...can't stop the Games every time someone cries "she's cheating!"... especially when there is the chance that those kids are age eligible...which isn't impossible.

It's like the athletes who are voluntarily signing up to be drug tested...they are taking the "high road" (and some are even allowing themselves to be busted!:eek:) and that is the spirit of sport...not whining and accusing others of cheating, but following the rules and competing to the best of their ability. It will all work out in the end and those who didn' t cheat will have the satisfaction of knowing it. The girls who don't win will survive.
 

kgymn

Gymnast
Aug 3, 2008
324
Virginia
I, too, wish that the rules were absolute and always created an equal playing field...but we are talking about competition between countries from all over the world. There are vast cultural differences and values to consider and the OTC...while a shady organizaton at times...can't stop the Games every time someone cries "she's cheating!"... especially when there is the chance that those kids are age eligible...which isn't impossible.

It's like the athletes who are voluntarily signing up to be drug tested...they are taking the "high road" (and some are even allowing themselves to be busted!:eek:) and that is the spirit of sport...not whining and accusing others of cheating, but following the rules and competing to the best of their ability. It will all work out in the end and those who didn' t cheat will have the satisfaction of knowing it. The girls who don't win will survive.

Here is what you are not understanding about my perspective- it's NOT about the winning. It's about being fair and being rewarded for good sportsmanship. Obviously the girls who don't win will survive, but they should be rewarded for doing things the right way. It's not whining, it's a genuine complaint and concern.

~Katy
 

gymmomntc2e6

Moderator/Proud Parent
Aug 25, 2007
2,841
North Carolina
I think that IF there are girls on China's team that are underage and it is proven then China should face some sort of sanction @ future events. I do not think taking medals from girls who earned them (regardless of age - and I don't think they had a choice in what their 'age' is - they do what they are told) is the answer.

I hope that they are of age. Do I think they are - not really. One of them is missing the same teeth as my DS who will be 12 in October. But this competition is done. The medals have been EARNED. If they are younger that does not mean that they did not train as hard as the girls from other countries - in fact - I bet they trained harder - and it may not have been what they wanted.
 
N

NYgymfan

If it is proven that they are underage I think China should be sanctioned and the medals should be stripped. There are rules to be followed, plain and simple. If FIG/IOC rules say that you have to be a certain age to compete and therefore have to be a certain age to win a medal, I don't see how it is fair that anyone should be allowed to keep medals if it has been proven that they were not eligible to win them in the first place. Yes, they trained hard, and yes, they earned the medals as of right this minute, but if it is proven they were underage, how can anyone say the earned them if they didn't meet all of the requirements, one of them being an age requirement? People (and countries) have to understand that their are consequences for violating rules, especially for serious, but fairly basic things like lying or providing false documents. Otherwise, there is no incentive for others to not do the same thing in the future.

Of course this is all a pretty much moot point, since it is next to impossible to prove these allegations. And in the meantime, innocent until proven guilty...and their routines were pretty awesome I must say.
 
G

gymnaSTICKs

my friends' mom job has something to do with dentistry and she said that she could tell by the teeth of some of the chinese gymnasts that they were between the ages of 8 and 10. not only the missing teeth, but something about the structure or size or something...? i thought that was sort of interesting.
 

lannamavity

Member
Sep 13, 2007
409
way out West
my friends' mom job has something to do with dentistry and she said that she could tell by the teeth of some of the chinese gymnasts that they were between the ages of 8 and 10. not only the missing teeth, but something about the structure or size or something...? i thought that was sort of interesting.

Once again...not to support breaking the rules...

But I know a 15 year old boy who has to have four primary teeth removed because his secondary teeth are not descending.

It happens...and they are not in a country where access to dentistry is like it is here.
 
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