WAG Help connecting round off to a bhs

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Hrca

Coach
Gymnast
Nov 4, 2021
2
20
Hi guys!
Currently I am working on my round off back handspring. It has been a few years since I’ve practiced, yet I am still having the same issue.

My round off is powerful, but when it comes to connecting it to a back handspring it goes down hill. My coach is telling me that I need to feel the lean back and that I am rushing the bhs. It causes me to undercut or go extremely high. Every time I try to correct myself I seem to blank out and unable to correct the issue. It’s like my body and mind are having a hard time connecting the skills and focusing on everything that it needs to do.

Can anyone please give me tips on how I can be more aware of my tumbling as I do it. Or what drills I can do to help. Thank you guys!
 

Geoffrey Taucer

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Jan 21, 2007
4,418
Baltimore, MD
Hi guys!
Currently I am working on my round off back handspring. It has been a few years since I’ve practiced, yet I am still having the same issue.

My round off is powerful, but when it comes to connecting it to a back handspring it goes down hill. My coach is telling me that I need to feel the lean back and that I am rushing the bhs. It causes me to undercut or go extremely high. Every time I try to correct myself I seem to blank out and unable to correct the issue. It’s like my body and mind are having a hard time connecting the skills and focusing on everything that it needs to do.

Can anyone please give me tips on how I can be more aware of my tumbling as I do it. Or what drills I can do to help. Thank you guys!

May I ask how old you are?

t any rate, this is a super-easy one to fix! But it requires patience, and you'll have to be willing to take a step back a bit in the progression. This whole sequence can be done either on floor or on tumbletrak, wherever you're comfortable; the only requirement is that you have a standing BHS.

First, let's talk about starting/finishing position. Stand with your knees bent, your back round, your arms horizontal in front of you, and your eyes on the floor in front of you. This is your transition position; remember it, because we'll be coming back to it

1) Work a standing BHS to stick with no rebound. You should both start and finish in transition position.

2) Standing BHS to stick, and then from that same spot, do another standing BHS. You can stop as long as you need to between the two, but you may not move your feet or swing your arms before the second BHS.

3) Repeat step 2 about a million times. What you'll find is that the pause between the two skills gradually gets shorter and shorter, until it disappears. Don't rush it -- in fact, you don't even have to try to make the pause shorter. This will happen on its own with basically zero effort from you.

4) Now replace the first BHS with a roundoff from knee lunge. Again, stick the roundoff in transition position first, then do standing BHS. The more you do it, the shorter the delay will become between the two skills, until eventually they are fully connected.

What I love about this progression is that the stick between the two skills forces you to really sit back into the next skill and avoid rushing it.
 

PreciousJ

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Feb 16, 2021
242
Southeastern USA
Hi guys!
Currently I am working on my round off back handspring. It has been a few years since I’ve practiced, yet I am still having the same issue.

My round off is powerful, but when it comes to connecting it to a back handspring it goes down hill. My coach is telling me that I need to feel the lean back and that I am rushing the bhs. It causes me to undercut or go extremely high. Every time I try to correct myself I seem to blank out and unable to correct the issue. It’s like my body and mind are having a hard time connecting the skills and focusing on everything that it needs to do.

Can anyone please give me tips on how I can be more aware of my tumbling as I do it. Or what drills I can do to help. Thank you guys!
Following - I can't help, but my DD is having the exact same issue, and her coaches don't seem to be giving her feedback. I hope others will chime in!

ETA: Totally missed GT's response above. I don't watch practice, but I'll have to ask DD if they've learned a standing BHS. She hasn't mentioned it, so I'm not sure.
 

JBS

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We always teach standing BHS and standing 2 BHS before RO-BHS. The standing 2 can be on tumble track… trampoline… or down a long hill… but that is a less complex series than RO-BHS which is flipping and twisting. At the same time as learning the 2 BHS we train round off fly backs... but this is much less important than the 2 BHS.
 
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Geoffrey Taucer

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Jan 21, 2007
4,418
Baltimore, MD
We always teach standing BHS and standing 2 BHS before RO-BHS. The standing 2 can be on tumble track… trampoline… or down a long hill… but that is a less complex series than RO-BHS which is flipping and twisting. At the same time as learning the 2 BHS we train round off fly backs... But this is much less important than the 2 BHS.
Agreed, standing 2BHS should come before RO BHS.
 

JBS

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Agreed, standing 2BHS should come before RO BHS.

I read your post and forgot to say... we are actually installing a 10 or 15 degree slant Tumbl Trak for this exact purpose over Christmas break this year. It's just such a staple in our program we need to have our "standing tumbling" station ready to go all the time. We will most likely deck around it with wood and foam to allow the coaches to be about to easily spot as well.
 

PreciousJ

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DD confirmed that they have not worked standing BHS/double BHS as described in this thread. I understand coaching techniques can be different. I don't mean to hijack the OP's thread, but - as a parent, am I in a position to suggest techniques to a coach, when a gymnast is struggling with the current method of training? What you guys are saying makes sense (to me, as a layperson) but it's not what DD's gym does. She's now trying to figure out the connection without much support, from what I understand.
 

Hrca

Coach
Gymnast
Nov 4, 2021
2
20
May I ask how old you are?

t any rate, this is a super-easy one to fix! But it requires patience, and you'll have to be willing to take a step back a bit in the progression. This whole sequence can be done either on floor or on tumbletrak, wherever you're comfortable; the only requirement is that you have a standing BHS.

First, let's talk about starting/finishing position. Stand with your knees bent, your back round, your arms horizontal in front of you, and your eyes on the floor in front of you. This is your transition position; remember it, because we'll be coming back to it

1) Work a standing BHS to stick with no rebound. You should both start and finish in transition position.

2) Standing BHS to stick, and then from that same spot, do another standing BHS. You can stop as long as you need to between the two, but you may not move your feet or swing your arms before the second BHS.

3) Repeat step 2 about a million times. What you'll find is that the pause between the two skills gradually gets shorter and shorter, until it disappears. Don't rush it -- in fact, you don't even have to try to make the pause shorter. This will happen on its own with basically zero effort from you.

4) Now replace the first BHS with a roundoff from knee lunge. Again, stick the roundoff in transition position first, then do standing BHS. The more you do it, the shorter the delay will become between the two skills, until eventually they are fully connected.

What I love about this progression is that the stick between the two skills forces you to really sit back into the next skill and avoid rushing it.
Thank you so much for replying!! I am 20 years old doing an adult gymnastics class.
I haven’t done a standing back handspring since I was 13 years old. So I am unsure if I still have it. My current coach mentioned to me that I need to learn my round off bhs before my standing (we haven’t worked any standing bhs). As I coach myself I learned the other way around. I will be sure to mention these great ideas to him.
I wanted to also ask if it’s normal to blank out when tumbling. I can focus on one skill but when it comes to connecting I completely blank out. Could this be fixed with more drills and breaking down of the skills?
Thank you to everyone that replied!
 

Geoffrey Taucer

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Jan 21, 2007
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DD confirmed that they have not worked standing BHS/double BHS as described in this thread. I understand coaching techniques can be different. I don't mean to hijack the OP's thread, but - as a parent, am I in a position to suggest techniques to a coach, when a gymnast is struggling with the current method of training? What you guys are saying makes sense (to me, as a layperson) but it's not what DD's gym does. She's now trying to figure out the connection without much support, from what I understand.
I'd be careful about this; coaches tend to get pretty defensive when we feel like somebody -- especially a parent -- is telling us how to do our job. I'm not sure what would be a good way to go about doing so, or even IF there would be a good way of doing so.

(Sorry I can't offer more useful council)
 

PreciousJ

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Feb 16, 2021
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Sorry to tell you this but…

Capital N capital O… NO
Ha, understood! I know better. The only reason I'm a little concerned is that the learning of this skill is a known "issue", many girls in DD's gym have struggled with it. It seems to work out eventually, so I'm not going to go all CGM over it. Though, some at the gym have been known to, LOL.
 

Aussie_coach

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I always teach standing flic first before the round off flic. Sure, in many ways round off flic is easier because the round off gives you a lot of power.

BUT it’s also easier to do a round off flic with very bad technique. Once bad technique is learned then it’s hard to undo it.

By learning the standing flic first your technique can be fixed and corrected, it’s easier for your coach to spot, it’s easier to break down and drill and bad habits out and the skill contains less power so if something goes wrong less chance if serious injury.

At the same time as learning the standing flic, we do lots of work on the round off, courbuettes and round off fly to back drills.

Only once the standing flic is very solid on floor, with good technique do I put the two together.
 

JBS

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Ha, understood! I know better. The only reason I'm a little concerned is that the learning of this skill is a known "issue", many girls in DD's gym have struggled with it. It seems to work out eventually, so I'm not going to go all CGM over it. Though, some at the gym have been known to, LOL.
You can definitely talk to the head coach about overall progression and such… just wouldn’t go into specific skill technique.
 

ReluctantGymMom

Proud Parent
May 11, 2020
184
31
Sorry to tell you this but…

Capital N capital O… NO
Ha, there have been so many times I’ve seen an awesome looking drill that might help someone else’s specific problem, that I really just want to suggest because I know we’re short staffed and there’s no way our coach can think of drills for every block and issue each kid is having but then I’m like “mmm no, this is like when people give me helpful suggestions on my work. You might be right, but I’m def not going to appreciate what you’re trying to do here” lol
 
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Aussie_coach

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The coaches may also take offence that you asked others for tips on training these skills. It could look to them like you don’t trust their coaching ability.
 

JBS

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There's 101 ways to teach a cartwheel... and I know all of them. I have been everything from a preschool director to a head coach of both girls and boys.

People always say... how come you get all the kids that can do cartwheels?

Simple... I throw away 100 of those ways and just use one way until they all get a cartwheel... it's called practice.

While everyone else is confusing the kids with 101 different things... we just do one. Do the kids get bored... no... they get cartwheels.

Is this always the case with every skill in gymnastics... pretty much.

If the athlete has the strength and flex and shapes... many times it's just a matter of having enough reps on the correct movement. Many times coaches add strange drills that do not at all relate to the correct movement for the skill... this just wastes time... it makes that athlete good at drills that they will never use.

For example... great little video here with lots of fun ideas to use in a basic low level class to keep the kids moving. However... with an athlete that I am looking at as a performance athlete... I would just spot the hips and turn them down repeatedly during the actual cartwheel... it's faster.

 

KineticChris

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Jun 4, 2019
4
55
Oxfordshire, UK
May I ask how old you are?

t any rate, this is a super-easy one to fix! But it requires patience, and you'll have to be willing to take a step back a bit in the progression. This whole sequence can be done either on floor or on tumbletrak, wherever you're comfortable; the only requirement is that you have a standing BHS.

First, let's talk about starting/finishing position. Stand with your knees bent, your back round, your arms horizontal in front of you, and your eyes on the floor in front of you. This is your transition position; remember it, because we'll be coming back to it

1) Work a standing BHS to stick with no rebound. You should both start and finish in transition position.

2) Standing BHS to stick, and then from that same spot, do another standing BHS. You can stop as long as you need to between the two, but you may not move your feet or swing your arms before the second BHS.

3) Repeat step 2 about a million times. What you'll find is that the pause between the two skills gradually gets shorter and shorter, until it disappears. Don't rush it -- in fact, you don't even have to try to make the pause shorter. This will happen on its own with basically zero effort from you.

4) Now replace the first BHS with a roundoff from knee lunge. Again, stick the roundoff in transition position first, then do standing BHS. The more you do it, the shorter the delay will become between the two skills, until eventually they are fully connected.

What I love about this progression is that the stick between the two skills forces you to really sit back into the next skill and avoid rushing it.
With this. But I would add that on occasions when you can't link, even with a pause, the back handsprings then you should fall backwards into a backward roll or take a step BACKWARDS. If you can stand up easily (or worse step FORWARDS) then you have not hit the right shape to move into the next handspring.
 
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