MAG Help.... Should he stay, or should he go?

[taximomma]

A little background….sorry so long!

My DS started gym at age 5 after watching big sister and wanting to join in on the fun. Soon after starting a rec class, coach decided to start a Boys Team and asked if I would be interested in DS being a part of this new “team” (Coach is ambitious & thinks long term). Fast forward 2 years….DS is 7, flexible, and strong. Coach’s goal was to have the boys compete for the first time this season as L4. The problem…….in the past 2 years I have seen over 15 boys come and go. DS is the only one left from the original group. We have recently lost 3 boys and are now down to 4 boys on team. I received a call from the gym owner letting me know that they are reducing practice time for the boys team from 6 hrs/week down to 4 hrs/week and that they are basically loosing money with boys team. This is happening at a time when my son has really made a positive turn, not only in skills but more importantly in behavior. You can see that he is more focused and loves being there! I am devastated not only for my son but also for the coach. Coach has poured his heart into establishing this team. He is dedicated to these boys and spends countless hours of his free time learning and planning. I admire him for this……time is valuable!

So…..what are my questions?

Do we hang in there knowing there is a possibility that the Boys Team could be scrapped, or should I put my son in a gym who already has an established Boys Team?

Can 4 boys practice for 4hrs a week and be able to compete in L4? (I know nothing about gymnastics, mush less boy's gymnastics)

DS is 7…. does he have time to see how this goes and how he does? Is there a “window” of opportunity for boys to gain skills in this sport?

My heart says ride this out and keep DS where he is. We love the coach and the gym. I have supported this coach for the past 2 years and want to see him succeed. My mind however says leave before I spend money on competition uniforms/gear and more of my son’s time on a possible dead end. There are several gyms with good teams but would require 1 hour commute each way. I am able to do that if it’s in our best interest. I would prefer to stay and see this through with the coach and support him in any way I can, but at the end of the day I need to do what’s best for DS. I am literally heartbroken about this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Again, sorry this post is so long.

 

[Sasha]

So sorry to hear your predicament. Sounds like your boy has made so much progress, yet the structure around him is unstable and unpredictable.

Do you have any clue why so many boys have left? It's common to have noticeable turnover between pre-team and team, especially with boys, who around age 7-8 often choose another sport (like baseball) and drop out of gym. But your number seems on the high end. Are they leaving for better gymnastics team programs? Or leaving gymnastics team entirely?

How do you personally feel about the quality of the training your son is receiving? Does he have all or most of his skills for L4 and should be reasonably competitive? There are definitely gyms who do L4 on only 4 hours a week. It is on the low side, but the thinking is often to remove barriers for boys who are often drawn to other sports as well, and make it more attractive for parents to balance time and money. Then when the boys start training L5 and the hours slowly increase, they will have hopefully fallen in love with the competition atmosphere, feel part of a team, and want to continue in the sport. There seem to be vast differences in L4 training philosophy between even quite successful gyms. Some will compete them in L4 as early as possible before they are very polished (many 6 year olds) - just to get them into competitions, while others will delay starting comp until their form is beautiful and they have all their bonuses. The first example often has many L4 repeaters (as L5 is a big jump in skills), while the second usually doesn't. But both tracks can produce beautiful upper level gymnasts. So something to keep in mind as you observe how your gym may compare to others.

You DO have time - your son is only 7 (like mine!) and delaying a decision to leave for a year is unlikely to have long term effects on his potential. If he is talented, he will keep/catch up if/when you switch to a place with a more progressive training regimen. The window is much, much larger than for girls. I'd say around 10-11 is where you want to make sure you're in a gym who trains to the goals your son is setting.

It does worry me that your owner is remarking about losing money and reducing hours. The long term prospects there could indeed be in jeopardy. My guess is eventually you will leave, unfortunately for your dedicated coach, who will also likely be forced to leave if the business model the owner has in place won't support his program. But this year, you don't have to make any decisions if you don't want to. Good luck!!

 

[2G1B]

that is tough.

My DS only did 5 hours for his first full level 4 season (he had done part of a season of level 4 the year before) and he was very successful. And he had a much larger team, so only 4 kids, for 4 hours should be doable IMO. He did go up against boys who were doing 10 hours at level 4; but he beat them. So hours aren't everything if the coach is using those 4 hours fully.

But... the first team that my DS was on dropped their boys' team. It was REALLY hard on my DS. I think that I likely would, if in your shoes, talk to the owner and ask if they are likely to stick it out with the boys or if realistically they will be dropping the team. Personally, I wouldn't want to go through something like that again. Also, I wouldn't want to buy a uniform for only one year. ;-)

 

[Popcorn]

Is there any possibility that your coach and your son could both move to the next gym? Maybe that's a terrible idea, I don't know enough about gym politics. But if the current gym is losing money on the boys' team, the coach loves coaching, and your son loves gymnastics...well, there are a lot of gyms who need MAG coaches and motivated boys! I know at our gym, there are a few boys who love it and it keeps the whole team motivated.

Agreed about hours as well: A good coach with small numbers will do a lot with 4 hours. But if the coach wants to increase their hours and the gymnasts are ready to increase their hours but the gym can't afford for that to happen, that's a tough spot for all involved.

Best wishes!!

 

[sce]

So sorry to hear this. Many boys do come and go in the sport.

First our story: We are at a city run gym that did not have a boys team. Mys one and a few others were thriving and the coach wanted to create a team. AT the same time the city was rebuilding and we knew we'd have the proper equipment. So we stuck with the program. We are now going into our third season. I am still hesitant about staying sometimes. If the city does not support the team with the resources it needs then my son will have to leave. The few boys we've been with for years and our current coach (not the one who started the team) are why we are still here now though.

Now to answer your question. Our team was quite small at first. My our first season we had 5 competing. There is not way this was money making for the program. You have to start somewhere though. If the owner of your gym is not willing to sacrifice to get the team going, then I would think it's best to look elsewhere now.

 

[profmom]

Four hours for L4 is on the low side but not unusual. Won't hurt anything. I would talk to the owners and explain that you want to stay and you're willing to give it a chance but that you'd like to hear that they are committed to building a team. Give them a year to figure it out, and then if it looks like it's not going anywhere, move. Your dedicated coach will likely be going through the same process in terms of figuring out whether it will work there too, so hopefully you'll end up together there or somewhere else.

Welcome to the wild world of boys' gymnastics. Buckle your seatbelt and have your own opening gallon jug of the koolaid. It's a crazy ride ahead -- but so worth it!

 

[curlymop]

So sorry to hear your predicament. Sounds like your boy has made so much progress, yet the structure around him is unstable and unpredictable.

Do you have any clue why so many boys have left? It's common to have noticeable turnover between pre-team and team, especially with boys, who around age 7-8 often choose another sport (like baseball) and drop out of gym. But your number seems on the high end. Are they leaving for better gymnastics team programs? Or leaving gymnastics team entirely?

How do you personally feel about the quality of the training your son is receiving? Does he have all or most of his skills for L4 and should be reasonably competitive? There are definitely gyms who do L4 on only 4 hours a week. It is on the low side, but the thinking is often to remove barriers for boys who are often drawn to other sports as well, and make it more attractive for parents to balance time and money. Then when the boys start training L5 and the hours slowly increase, they will have hopefully fallen in love with the competition atmosphere, feel part of a team, and want to continue in the sport. There seem to be vast differences in L4 training philosophy between even quite successful gyms. Some will compete them in L4 as early as possible before they are very polished (many 6 year olds) - just to get them into competitions, while others will delay starting comp until their form is beautiful and they have all their bonuses. The first example often has many L4 repeaters (as L5 is a big jump in skills), while the second usually doesn't. But both tracks can produce beautiful upper level gymnasts. So something to keep in mind as you observe how your gym may compare to others.

You DO have time - your son is only 7 (like mine!) and delaying a decision to leave for a year is unlikely to have long term effects on his potential. If he is talented, he will keep/catch up if/when you switch to a place with a more progressive training regimen. The window is much, much larger than for girls. I'd say around 10-11 is where you want to make sure you're in a gym who trains to the goals your son is setting.

It does worry me that your owner is remarking about losing money and reducing hours. The long term prospects there could indeed be in jeopardy. My guess is eventually you will leave, unfortunately for your dedicated coach, who will also likely be forced to leave if the business model the owner has in place won't support his program. But this year, you don't have to make any decisions if you don't want to. Good luck!!

I agree with pretty much everything Sasha said here.

I'd be more worried about the message you're getting from the gym owner than the hours themselves. 4 hours is on the low side, but it's not unheard of. Our L4s only practice 4 hours a week. Last year's group was not as polished as some other gyms who practiced more, but our gym doesn't have a pre team. Kids go straight from 1 hour rec classes to team. My son made a huge amount of progress over a year of practicing only 4 hours a week. I know he could have progressed faster with more practice time, but L4 is entry level, and it's tough to get boy parents to agree to more hours when they're first deciding if they want their son to pursue gymnastics. Your situation is a little different, though, in that you already had a group that was practicing 6 hours. I do think that is a bit odd to reduce the hours in that situation, unless the owner feels that too many hours is the reason boys were not sticking with it.

As for the comments about losing money on the team, I've always heard that the rec program funds the team. Team, especially at the upper levels, requires more experienced coaches, but the price per hour is lower in order to make it affordable. But having a competitive team bolsters the reputation of the gym, which will have an effect on the success of the rec program, thereby making more money for the gym. It sounds like your gym owner doesn't recognize the value the team could bring to the gym or is not willing to ride it out until it does become a benefit to the gym.

I think at this point I would have a very frank conversation with the gym owner. Are they committed to the team at least for one year? If they can promise they won't cut the team mid year, I'd stick with them for now. Age is not as much of a concern with boys, so you do have time to wait and see, especially if that means sticking with a coach who works well with your son. Good luck!

 

[sce]

It sounds like your gym owner doesn't recognize the value the team could bring to the gym or is not willing to ride it out until it does become a benefit to the gym.

I think at this point I would have a very frank conversation with the gym owner. Are they committed to the team at least for one year? If they can promise they won't cut the team mid year, I'd stick with them for now.

I agree, talk with the gym owner to understand if there is any commitment at least through the year. Also, if they are competing this season then meet schedules and uniforms will need to be discussed in the next month.

 

[momto2js]

In our state, we have lost 2 of about 11 teams in the last 6 weeks. One gym is under new ownership and since the boys team was not self supporting, it was no longer. There loss is our gain. We have been looking for a boys coach for at least a year, and there coach will start with us in about 2 weeks. The parents are beyond happy. Those athletes were combined with another gym in that area. Our gym is in the process of integrating several kids from another gym that has had a small team, but in the end they can't afford to have a team of boys anymore. Boys team contraction around here seems to be happening all of the sudden. The good news is that they boys pretty much know each other from area events and meets so it seems to be going smoothly.

I think a small number for a fewer kids is better then more hours with a larger group especially when they at the lower levels. I would stay for now but I would be developing a back up plan just in case something happens. Around here, if a team was cut mid year, the kids would be welcomed to other gyms with open arms, and everyone would make the best of the situation.

 

[J&A's mom]

Both of my son's L4 teams practiced four hours a week. My older son's team did amazing with these hours including team champs in most meets and all around champs for each age group. My younger son's team was smaller and younger and finished near the top. It definitely can be done!

 

[gymboymom]

You've gotten good advice. I wouldn't be happy with the senario you are presenting Mostly because with only 4 boys, and an owner who isn't committed to the boys team, I wonder what the future will hold for the team. However, I think you need to do a lot of what has been suggested because you mention the closest gym is an hour commute each way. That is a big commitment. Hopefully your gym will be able to recruit and keep boys on do they are competing. Good luck. There are so few MAG programs, it is hard.

 

[taximomma]

Thank you all for the replies and great advice!

To answer a few of the questions, I believe the large turnover is lack of commitment by the boys and leaving for other sports. To my knowledge they are not leaving for other gyms. We lost a few this summer when it became mandatory for the boys in this training group to commit to team/competing so they could start focusing on routines. I do feel like the instruction is very good, at least at this level. The coach is big on form and drills, drills, and more drills. Maybe between all those drills and conditioning over the last 2 years it was too much for many of the boys. Don’t know. I do know his coaching is paying off because things are clicking and the skills/routines are looking really good. Part of the problem is that this coach is really good. This is a very small gym with not enough coaches. He coaches boys team, helps with girls team as well as coaches many of the Rec classes. All the parents want their kids in his class and what I am realizing is that Rec classes bring in more money. The gym owners are good people and I get it…. they have to pay the bills. I think I will just ask the owners tomorrow, what the game plan is and find out their commitment to these boys. It is good to hear that we have time and do not need to rush somewhere. Now if I can just be sure it won’t collapse before DS gets to compete… that would crush my son. It would crush this coach as well.

 

[gracyomalley]

My DSs' team went from about 5 kids competing 4 years ago to 20+ kids, 18 of which will compete this year, Levels 4-10. That's WITH tons of coach turn-over (3 HC in that time, to be specific). 2 other boys teams within 45 minute drive folded, and a few kids came from them, but mostly once there were a few more 5s and up, the 4s were less likely to quit....before that I would say more quit than stayed - and it had very little to do with talent or scores at L4, as my boys were, as they like to say "terrible gymnasts" at the time (but consistently make regionals, place there and older is skipping a level this year - which should give you an idea of the difference in skill acquisition between boys and girls - you really can't tell much until puberty...)

I do know that gym is much more fun for them now that their friends aren't dropping like flies with each season - but when they were your sons age they didn't care so much...I'd see what the gym says, keep your eyes open, but if you son is having fun and gets to do L4 with a coach he is comfortable with, no reason to jump ship yet...

 

[taximomma]

Just a quick update:

Spoke with gym owners and voiced my concerns. I was reassured that they are committed to seeing this team compete and growing the team. People were upset and disappointed but this will settle down. We have a meet schedule.

Thank you all for your advice! I believe a move will be required at some point but will focus on where we are for now. Looking forward to seeing these little guys compete!

 

[skschlag]

It is very good to hear that they are committed, and I hope their actions show that as well! A meet schedule is a good start. Our meets in our state haven't even been scheduled yet so we can choose!

Good luck! I look forward to lots of reports on how your little guy is doing

 

[sbonham]

T-Mom,
Sorry to hear about this situation - but it is not uncommon. As boys mature - and as more an more stress is placed on "form" (instead of the more important F's: FUNdamentals and FUN)... boys tend to leave gymnastics for sports/activities that are move forgiving... and where often less individual discipline is required to succeed.

That your guy is still hanging in there shows that he is the kind of person who may be quite successful in gymnastics and in any endeavor. I too tho am concerned about a couple of comments you've shared. 14 gone and 1 remains after ONLY two years first! To me that seems a VERY high "fail" rate. Has the coach (OR anyone else!) at the gym attempted to find out WHY the boys have left? An exit phone interview could be an easy solution. This situation needs to be examined and improved upon. Perhaps (- as is common in many gyms) the guys feel like they are "second class"... Often the women's program gets the best coaches - the best mats - more events stations, more time on those stations, more publicity, etc. and it can have a dramatically adverse effect on morale. Reducing hours would just make things worse IMO.

My 2 cents. Hope things can be turned around!
S