Help with talking to a coach

[notjustgym]

I have been a long time lurker but now really need help.

I have a soon to be 16 year old DD who is a L9 gymnast. She is getting set to compete her 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] year of L9.

My issue is the way her coach handles her training, skills and competition. At this point Assume we have no other options for gymnastics. DD does not want to quit. We have 1 other gym in our area but it is not an option.

DD Has had an overwhelming mental block on her BHS BHS on High beam. When I say overwhelming I mean she has been working it for 4 years. She has never been able to do it on the high beam. She can do them on low beam. She has been taking part in Doc Ali’s Web Camp and also done one to one sessions with Doc Ali. For the sake of this conversation lets assume this skills is not going to happen.

Here is the issue. HC says.. no BHS BHS No competing beam. No competing beam means she is restricted from some meets she has wanted to go to.

HC ‘refuses’ to allow her to work other flight series. DD can do FHS/BHS competed it 2 times last year. She didn’t receive connection bonus either meet. She fell in the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] meet and HC told her she could never work the skill again. And she hasn’t since.

I don’t think its fair to punish a girl for a fear issue. HC thinks she just doesn’t want it “bad enoughâ€￾ and if he withholds meets from her she will get the skill.

This is where I come to you with Help. DH and I are planning on having a meeting with HC. To see why he will not let her do another flight series. How do I talk to this coach without him thinking that we are telling him to do his job? I just don’t understand. We have been in this gym for 11 years, We have been supportive parents, we do not tell this coach how to do his job. But DD is looking at competing in college. She knows D1 is probably out of her reach but she would like to do D3. She feels like she needs to get out there, qualify for state, possibly specialist at Regions to start getting noticed. She feels that HC has given up on her cuz she is not getting 1 skill.

How can I approach this without making him defensive and saying “My gym.. My rules?â€￾

Thanks in advance

 

[gymgurl]

I don't really know what you can do but maybe a friendly "Why can't she do another flight series?" and hopefully he will reveal his motives. If he fails too bring up the the FHS/BHS series and say that she only got to give it a go twice in competition if she continued working on it she might get it to a competitive standard. Maybe ask, what they suggest she does too get over this fear so that she can continue to progress. other than that i am at a loss

 

[Deleted member D3987]

he's doing the wrong thing. the code provides for other options. if this weren't so, you would not see the several hundred other girls over the years perform other series. the code doesn't say, and have a category for "vestibular" issues. this is why a level 6 can perform a front walkover instead of a backwalkover. will they outgrow the problem? who knows. in the mean time, the coaches duty is to coach and help the athlete find a way. or find a way around the problem.

tell him to suck up his pride/ego, and give her the opportunity to explore other things that she CAN do and still meet the requirement. such nonsense...such immaturity...geesh.

 

[sportzmomov3]

Is this the first time you are speaking with the HC about this specific issue? What is the reasoning for not allowing an equal substitution of skill on beam? Is the philosophy, "if you don't have X skill then you don't compete that event at all" applied to all gymnasts?

If it is not the first time you've discussed with the HC, then personally, I wouldn't still be at this gym. A good coach will find a way to help a gymnast succeed. We have a girl in our gym who has a fear of either front or back tumbling (don't ever remember which it is), but otherwise she is a beautiful, solid gymnast. And our coaches didn't want her to quit the sport, so they found a workaround. She does different passes that meet the requirements of her level.

If it is not the first time you are having a discussion with HC on this specific issue, then I see little recourse or action you could take at this point. I'm not even sure what you could say, other than the ultimatum of work with her or we leave (but you've indicated that is not an option). I'm assuming of course that the HC realizes your DD's goal of collegiate gymnastics. What good coach (and I'll be interested to see the coaches' perspectives) would not try to work with the gymnast, if after a significant amount of time nothing has worked to achieve a certain skill? (And I would say 4 years is a significant time.)

And surely a reasonable solution would be to allow the gymnast to leave out the requirement with no substituted skill and just take a deduction, so she can at least qualify for an AA score and be eligible for States? Coaches, I'm interested to see what your thoughts are.

 

[sportzmomov3]

I was still typing while dunno answered. see, I knew there must be a way and someone would know!

 

[vagymmomma]

I think the way you articulated it in your message says it all. Your DD continues to struggle and you're looking for options that will work for everyone. In my head I'm thinking what Dunno said, but I think from a practical standpoint you need to start with something positive. "We've been at your gym a long time and we really respect your coaching. However, DD continues to struggle with the HS HS and we really think we need to consider some alternative solutions. ..."

Play a little naive, "It's my understanding that there are other flight skills that meet the requirements. We would like to explore this option to see if she can achieve some success and regain her confidence." This shouldn't put the coach on the defensive, but clearly communicates the problem and your proposed answer. If he's hesitant to make change, press him to articulate why this is the only option. Maybe it will give some perspective from the other side though from my naive perspective it just doesn't make sense.

And if you make not progress, tell him that Dunno thinks he's nuts.

 

[CoachTodd]

I'm with Dunno. There are tons of series options including dive carthwheels. They range from the extremely simple to very difficult at level 9.
Unfortunately, I've met coaches like this. They have a very specific set of skills they teach and they teach them in a very specific way. Their vault will be a yerchenko leading up to a yerchenko full, they will do handspring handspring at level 8 on beam.... and so on.
They don't leave much room at all for individuality of the kids. The coach should set aside some time to look at what skills she is good at and what she could put on the beam. If the connections isn't there at first, OK. I've seen beam scores in the low 9's with falls or missing series.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

"When I say overwhelming I mean she has been working it for 4 years. "

this jumped right out of her post and hit me smack in the eyeballs. seriously mr. coach? you've been battling this gymnast for 4 years on a stupid flip flop flip flop? when there are several other things that you can be doing?? what...are you stupid mr. coach?
you want her to quit mr. coach? you hate kids mr. coach? oh, i understand mr. coach...she's doing this on purpose cause she hates you...yep i get that mr. coach. certainly it's natural that children hate adults...yup...i understand mr. coach...yep, i understand that she purposefully stays up all hours of the night plotting to make your work outs a hell on earth for you every day for 4 years...thank you for taking the time out of your 4 year battle with my daughter to speak with me mr. coach...

okay class, how high and how long can you raise the middle finger? "this high!" that's right class!

 

[flippin out]

Oh wow!! Dunno - that was priceless!!! Funny, but in a sad way...b/c that's how a Some coaches would truly see (and react) to this situation.

I would say that the gymnast has done MORE than enough to try for this skill. Dr Ali is not inexpensive (especially if she's doing the web camps and 1-to-1 sessions). For whatever reason, this fear is deeply ingrained. Threatening her with "if you don't just get up there and do the bhs-bhs, then I won't allow you to go to X,Y Z meet" is not ever going to work.

I really hope that you find a way to talk with coach and get him to see that it is the best interest of both your dd and him to move on and work a different series. After all, doesn't he see that letting her work/compete the fhs-bhs would "look" much better for HIM than to have a a gymnast not compete AA or not even go to a meet?

 

[gymmomtoo]

Okay, now that I"m done snorting my drink after reading dunno's post--I have to say I LOVE vagymmomma's answer. It really sounds to me like the coach just isn't able to coach different skills--he thinks he knows how to coach the BHS-BHS so that's what he's doing. I hope the meeting goes well. I would write out ahead of time the points you want to make so you don't forget anything. Try to stay calm and cool and plan ahead of time--is this a deal breaker? Will your DD stay and compete the other events if he doesn't let her do beam??

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

If all else fails...print out this thread and show it to the coach. Good luck with your meeting! I truly hope they can find a way to work around this with your DD.

 

[notjustgym]

Thanks everyone. We have set the meeting and I am preparing.

We have "discussed" this issue in the past. When I say discussed, he rambles I listen. But I have stayed out of the struggle for a very long time. Partly because I KNOW this is her battle. Its Her skill, she drives the gymnastics boat (I pay for the gas) Up to this point she has been able to compete all events. Last year included. She did BHS BHS (Not connected) after she fell on the FHS BHS.

I feel that DH and I cannot sit back and do nothing. DD used to love beam. As a L 7's she was "beam queen" adored it. Now 2 levels later she despises it. She would rather never look at a beam again. And I think its because of her coach. As a Mom I need to step up and stand up for her.

 

[my4buffaloes]

good luck - I agree that she shouldn't be punished for lacking 1 skill when others would certainly suffice.

 

[littlegirlsdream]

If you don't make any headway just have Dunno call him directly Saving gymnastics one gymnast at a time!

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

I loved Vagymmomma response and Dunno's is, as usual, priceless. I also think you should print out this thread and take it with you!!! The coach is not working w/your DD to make her the best she can be. He has an idea of what "should" be done and is not working with the reality of her fears. Who knows... if he'd just leave her alone and work on something else, she may finally get up the nerve to try it on her own. That's what always worked w/my DD. She could battle a fear on her own and in her own time. The more pressure that was PUT on a specific skill, the longer it would take and the more that fear would build up for her. Good luck and let us know what happens!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Thanks everyone. We have set the meeting and I am preparing.

We have "discussed" this issue in the past. When I say discussed, he rambles I listen. But I have stayed out of the struggle for a very long time. Partly because I KNOW this is her battle. Its Her skill, she drives the gymnastics boat (I pay for the gas) Up to this point she has been able to compete all events. Last year included. She did BHS BHS (Not connected) after she fell on the FHS BHS.

I feel that DH and I cannot sit back and do nothing. DD used to love beam. As a L 7's she was "beam queen" adored it. Now 2 levels later she despises it. She would rather never look at a beam again. And I think its because of her coach. As a Mom I need to step up and stand up for her.

in this instance, if a parent is not going to advocate for their child then who will? go for it and be firm as to a resolution. period. done. that's all.

 

[notjustgym]

Thank you everyone for your words of encouragement.

DH and I had a meeting with DD's coach. We specifically met during non training hours so DD would not be there. Things went well. Coach was open to letting her work a different series. We basically said the current series is dead. And If you want her to be a gymnast past this year we have to give her a different option. Coach said he 'gave the FHS BHS a good try last year' That was the one time I pushed back. I said you gave that flight approx 2 months. You have been giving BHS BHS 4 years. Lets try FHS BHS again.

He wanted us to be aware that she turns her hands 'wrong' on the beam which opens her hips and pulls her off the beam. This is fine, good to know.. help her fix it. He also wanted us to know that he wasn't going to have her compete with an unsafe flight series(or no flight series). We said we were not asking him to compete her with no flight series. We are asking him to give her a fighting chance at HAVING a flight series.

In the end he also said that she was a hard working kid, that she has a positive attitude, doesn't give him sass back and he really does appreciate having her around. Which was nice to hear.

That night she went out and connected FHS BHS on a low beam and did FHS on a high beam (with a big blue mat under.. ).. I call that progress already!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[flippin out]

That is wonderful news!! So glad that the talk went well and seems to have very positive results already .

Just curious, what does she do when she 'turns her hands the wrong way'? I notice all the girls in dd's level seem to hold their hands a bit differently (all on what makes them the most comfortable I think.....but that's just my best guess). I'm not even sure that I can describe properly which way dd holds her hands, lol. So, what is the 'proper' hand position for bhs on beam?

 

[notjustgym]

Well from what I have seen.. there are a couple 'Preferred' hand placement. Coaches please jump in if you think different.

One is where you make an "L" with one hand and Kind of rest the heel of the other hand in the "L" so one hand is lengthwise one the beam.

The other is where you 'criss cross' one hand on top of the other with fingers.

This is a good video..

Hand Positions for Back Handspring on Beam - Kellie Mizoguchi - YouTube

My DD does neither of these hand positions.. she turns both hand in the same direction so all 10 Fingers are on the same side of the beam. Bad habit that started when she learned BHS's on beam back when she was 9 years old.. and now she 'opens her shoulders a bit when doing her flight. She is working on fixing it.