How long to get to level 4?

[Aussie_coach]

I am just curious in making a comparison between USA gymnastics and Australian gymnastics.

So I was wondering on average how long it takes your girls to get from starting gym to level 4 competitive level.

Here in Australia it takes a long time because levels 1, 2 and 3 are highly competitive so its common for kids to spend a year each competing those levels. Plus the time it takes them to get ready for level 1 competition. So the average is about 4 years to get to level 4. It seems in the USA they fast track the more to the higher levels of competing, so I was just interested in a comparison. Perhaps we hold ours back far too long.

 

[Laura]

I have a group of girls who are in their third year of squad with me. I did level 1C with them the first year, skipped to level three C the second year and this year they are doing 3B. Next year they will hopefully do level 4. So I guess 4 years, although some of them probably had six months to a year of rec gym under their belt before I got them.
They are all 8 turning 9 with the exception of 2 who are turning 10 this year.

 

[KAQuinlan]

In the US, levels 1-4 are not required competitive levels. Some gyms compete level 4, some do not. Our gym does have a level 4 team in order to get the kids used to competition early. The kids that get to join that team usually have at least a year to two years of pre-team (called Shooting Stars at our gym) before they get to go to that level. Depending upon what age they began gymnastics, they may have a few months in a rec class or they may have spent a year on our Rising Stars squad which is an advanced class for preschoolers that show talent. Level 4s have to be 6 to compete. Our gym has no 8 year olds in this level. If they aren't level 5 by 8, then they are moved to a program called Prep-Op.

Our gym does offer levels 2 & 3 competitive teams. These are for older kids that are doing well, have advanced through all our rec levels, and would like to do more gymnastics but don't want to commit to the full competitive program (or, sadly, are too old by the gym's standards -- not a policy that I agree with). These kids may then continue competing under Prep-Op program.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

I really dislike the Australian system; at least for any kid who is has potential to go beyond level 5. I feel like you spend a lot of time getting skills ready for competition that you would perhaps teach a bit later in the development and would take a lot less time then.
I understand that they are designed to be progressions for later skills, however there is a fair amount of stuff that doesn’t really fit this category (Level 3 beam swing to Pike!). I think the routines should simpler so that coaches can spend more time on progressions and development in the gym.

 

[cher062]

At our gym what would be L1 - L3 are the Pre-Team group. They usually range in age from 3yo - 7yo. L1 they call Bronze, L2 they call Silver and L3 they call Gold. the only time L1 - L3 compet in my area is for an end of the year fun meet that our gym holds just for them. Other gyms attend and everyone goes home with ribbons etc. The older team girls are on hand to help run the meet and the love doing it.

Usually girls are picked out of the rec classes to join the pre-team at one of the levels depending on their age and skill set. So it could be anywhere from 1 - 3 years in the Pre-team program before they go on to L4. I have seen some girls that were placed directly on the L4 team because they did have the skills and age they needed to do that level. In the summer there is a conditional L4 team that is made up of girls who's parents want them to go to team but the gym might not feel is really team material usually because of age more than anything. Well for the months of July and August about 24 girls come twice a week for 2 hours a day (4 hours total) and try to learn the skills needed for L4. At the end of July they are evaluated and tested by the coaches to see if they will continue in this group. Usually half either quit before that date as the parent didn't realize how much of a commitment was involved especially over the summer or the girls really didn't want to do it. At the end of August they are again re- evaluated and re-tested. At that point Usually only 1 or 2 girls acutally make the L4 team. the rest go to an avanced rec class or are offered Pre-Op as an option.

L4 is the entry level of formal competition as of 2005 according to USA gymnastics site. They need to be at least 6 years of age before the state meet date to compete as a L4.

 

[Tim_Dad]

From what I gather, 1 year per level for L1 through L3, then one or two years at L4 would be a good average assumption.


The USAG official rules, and how USAG member gyms interpret these rules are contradictory. ( I think by design). I'm not sure how it works down under.

Technically speaking (based strictly on the USAG system of advancement), the gymnast makes the determination of progression once they have shown they have 75% of the skills required. This isn't supposed to be the decision of the gym or the coach. Of course that rarely (if ever) occurs. Why? Because the gym / coach isn't obligated to agree with the gymnasts decision, nor do they have have to train someone they don't feel is ready. Who's correct? A punk kid with a rulebook in hand, or the (hopefully) trained coach, and a liable facility?

Some gyms promote based strickly on merit. A proven mastery of skills. Where others (most I believe), promote based on "time served" & season, with some even requiring meeting a "minimum AA score" at sanctioned meets. (a clear contradition to the USAG philosophy).

Some gyms do fast-track, but many don't. Personally I agree with the idea of fast-tracking. You simply can't determine ones true 'potential', based on group effort or progress within a group alone. Potential requires motivation. And there is nothing that's individually motivational about L1-L4.

Case in point: A student that is failing in an academic subject at school may not be failing because they don't understand. But rather, because they don't CARE to understand. Make it more challenging, more engauging, more rewarding, and the student may in fact excel. This has been proven true time and time again. The USAG TOP's program was created under these findings. Unlocking potential.

Sadly, The so-called "leave no child behind" rule can also be seen as "allow no child to get ahead." And it's not limited strictly to education. The same is true with many competitive gymnastic teams. I.E. A gymnast isn't promoted to L5 until the GROUP is promoted. An individual potential is rarely tested. Only the skills they "have to learn" to progress are tested.

Ancient sayings (that I just made up):
- A dog on a leash will only run as fast as the trainer allows.
- How high and how long will a caged bird soar?

 

[gymmomntc2e6]

At DD's gym it is mainly skills based. You need to have all of the required skills for that level to advance to that level. I do think that form and previous AA scores also come into play.

Our gym does not have a mandatory 2yrs a level 4, though some repeat.

I would say it really depends on the gymnast (at least at DD's gym) how long it takes to get to L4. We have Rec classes. Once they get to a certain point they move to the L2 Rec class. Once they get all L3 skills they move to L3 pre-team (although at our gym L3 works out with the team and competes). For example I had two girls in my Rec class that we just moved to the L2 Rec class after 3 classes. I don't think they will spend a lot of time in the L2 class before moving to L3. They are just picking everything up pretty quick.

 

[gymdog]

Depends of course on how good the preteam program is, some gyms have limited space and so will move some girls through L1-4 "class" programs, some gyms have really big preteam programs with multiple tracks for acceleration.

I'd say in general:

Accelerated (very strong and flexible at a young age) - 2 years. 6 year old L4s are relatively rare, but assuming that we don't really start "real" gymnastics classes until 4-5 years, those girls generally moved to 4 in about two years in most cases.

Average - 3-4 years

However I did both of those from the same point, starting at 4 years or so, but if a girl starts at 7, she has the ability to move faster than that 4 year old...of course a 4 year old can't do L4 (well technically, anyway). We can have a 7 year old who's really strong and flexible come in and start getting close to L4 skills in a couple months. I have a girl on preteam this year who just started earlier this year, has the L3 skills and working on 4. She's very strong. Per USAG guidelines we shouldn't be doing bridges or any bridging skills with kids under 5, so it's then when the real work would be starting, but this little girl had a fantastic, strong bridge from day 1, and was ready to start kickovers and walkovers almost immediately. So of course it was a faster progression than I'd ever do with any strong 4 year old.

ETA: also, I would say that once we get kids into L4, for the talented ones, the progression can be exponentionally faster - partially that's due to age/maturity level.

I was in a rec program when I started, so I took a relatively long time to do L4 considering my strength/flex level, but by that point I had most of our L6 skills. BT/FT on floor, BWOs on beam, both kips on bars. I probably wouldn't have progressed like that in a program that held more strictly to USAG levels (and although it was basically rec, the coaching was quite good, so I didn't have to relearn things or anything). But I also probably would have done competitive L4 sooner and maybe moved a little slower to optionals than I did.

 

[Laura]

I understand that they are designed to be progressions for later skills, however there is a fair amount of stuff that doesn’t really fit this category (Level 3 beam swing to Pike!).

How I hate that mount!! out of a group of 5 I only have 2 that can do it.
the other thing I hate are the leap progressions in the 3C routine.... they are horrible to teach and never look good!

 

[CoachGoofy]

My preteam kids next year are going to be US Level 4s next year. They're ages 7-11, and were selected from level 1-3 classes last year. The girl I've got who's been in the shortest has had about 18 months (and can most of her L4 skills) and the one who's been in the longest has had 4 years (and ALL her L4 skills & some L5 as well).

I'm not a big fan of compulsaries for various reasons, but some other systems really make me appreciate ours!

 

[Aussie_coach]

We don't have "compulsary" levels in Australia so to speak. From level 4 and above they have their own routines and own music. there are just some skills they have to include.

It can be pretty flexible for example in level 5 beam they have to have an acro skill but they can choose out of either a cartwheel, a back walkover, a front walkover, a back handspring, a tic toc, a front handspring or a back tuck. So its pretty flexible. Also they need a dance passage with two A or above dance skills one with a 180 split. So that could be anything from a split jump-wolf jump to a switch split ring leap connected to a sheep jump.

So the flexibility is good. But the fairness is far from good. You can have one level 4 competing a round off and a cartwheel cartwheel series as their two tumble passes on floor going against a level 4 doing and round off back handspring back tuck and a front handspring front tuck.

The other problem is the expectation of perfection is very very high. We use the same deductions they do at the international levels and its not uncommon to have level 4's training 18-20 hours a week. So the focus at our lower levels has to be perfection rather than skill development and that can mean we leave the skill development too late. I notice in the USA that it tends to go the other way around.

 

[BlairBob]

A girl through the rec program may get there in 3-4. I've seen some take 6mo-1 year.

Going through the developmental program, levels 1-3 probably takes 2-3 years to develop a girl. These girls are usually younger, sometimes starting L1 at 4 or 5 years old, but not always.