WAG I need some advice

[Nikki4]

It's me again. picking a new gym is almost as hard as finding a new school when we move.
I don't post much, so no one probably remembers me anyway! lol

So we moved almost 2 months ago to a really competitve state. dd is 5 and was a level 3(old levels) at her gym. We've tried a few gyms here and I thought I had one but now I'm not sure. I may just need to talk with them more, but I don't know how to do it without sounding like a crazy gym mom.

she has been level 3 since june 2012 and none of the kids seemed to really be getting anywhere. well now we know why. all 3 gyms we've tried here have said the same thing about dds technique, etc. they've basically said someone let her get away with murder and never corrected her. one gym said she wasn't even holding the bar the right way!

So the first gym was good, it's a smaller program. dd went for the eval and they said she would do fine with there level 2 team(new levels). they said she had several little things that needed fixing, staying tight, legs and arms straight, getting stronger in her upper body, etc. I didn't get a real good feel from this gym. they had signs up that said no to leave anything in your car due to the recent problems they've have with break ins. The main coach's 3yo ds was running wild in the gym and she had to leave the class twice to put him in timeout.

The 2nd gym, is a great program. It's been recommended to us a few times, they've have a bunch of the top 100 gymnast, elite program and all that jazz. It's an hour away, but I wanted to go see what it was all about just because it had been recommended so much. They have a huge car pool system because a lot of the gymnast commute there. dd went for an eval and the coach said the same thing here. that dd had talent but there were several basic things that she needed fixed. They wanted to pull her back to level 1 to re teach a few things, stuff like t'ing into her handstand, etc. but that she would easily be ready to compete level 2.

the 3rd gym has a good program too. no elite or anything but still a good gyme. and I thought this was the one I liked but i have so many questions about it now. the first thing that caught my attention was the intial email. I emailed to see when we could come in, explained dd was just starting her level 3 meet season before we moved, etc. they wanted to know if i meant competive season, her full name and date of birth so they could place her better? we've moved a couple of times and no gym has ever ask for that info. then i never heard back, after a few days i called and they said she could come in and practice with their level 3's(old levels) but wanted her to do it for a week. i explained her endurance level was likely going to be down since she hadn't been in the gym for the last month except for 2 days. so we went. the class was fine, dd was the youngest by a few years. she doesn't mind. they didn't go to bars that night so the coach took dd over the bars before it was over. dd couldn't get her pullover or back hip circle. she normally has them, but i guess she just hadn't been in gym enough since moving. So they said she was missing some skills, and wanted her to try the level 2 class to see where she fit in skill wise there. We did and again she was the youngest by a few years. it was hard to tell from a parents perspective how she fit here. they were doing the level 2 routines and dd doesn't know those. so after this one, they explained that dd had some things that needed to fixed technique wise, that she was really strong on floor and has most of her level 3 floor stuff. the front desk ladies said the coach wanted to put her in the "rockateer" class. she explained that it was an advanced class for kids dds age just for working on technique and getting ready for the team skills. I ask about dd being able to get back on team and she said that would depend on dd. So we come to this "technique" class this week. it's an hour class, with several classes available each day. we signed up for 3 because dd is used to going 6 hours a week and it's all i can do to keep her from climbing the walls and doing gym at home as it is. This class is not what i expected at all. it reminded me more of the preschool classes dd used to be in. for example tonight.....the stretched. then went to bars, did some L hangs, jump up to front support and pullovers. next was tumble trac, they did straight jumps, tuck jumps and straddle jumps. and in between turns they did on their own handstands, belly to the wall and cartwheels. after this they went to an area where they ran for 4 feet to a spring board and jumped onto a small mat. and that was it!
dd said she had fun, but she looked bored. she said she wanted to go do her old stuff she used to do. they spent alot of time standing around it seemed getting everyone in line and explaining things. she's used to doing bridge kick overs and working on that mill circle or handstands on beam and routines. I know she has things that need to be fixed, but can that not be addressed in team pracitices?
why are all of their lower levels all 8-12 year olds. theres nothing wrong with those ages on level 2, don't get me wrong, I just found it odd that they were all that old.


if you've read this far, bless you. I really appreciate your advice, opinion, and thoughts. it really does help me sort all this out and not go crazy in the process.
i just want what is going to be best for dd, where she will have fun and progress, for now and in the future if she decides to continue with gymnastics.

 

[GymBee97]

Ok first breath in, then breath out.

Now she is only 5yo and has plenty of time to 'fix' anything that is wrong. At 5yo she doesn't need the most elite program - heck in 2 year she might not even want to do this - you just never know. Now take a pen and paper and write an actual list of the things you want to see in your DD's gymnastic program if you could find the dream gym. Remember just because they are the "it" gym doesn't mean it is the right fit for you or your DD. Do the visits and try the classes and see which one fits you and your DD best.

When changing gyms too the gym wants to make sure too that your DD is placed in a level where her skill set is correct for their program.

For the gym with the toddler running around just ask if this is normal to have the son running around or was this just a once in a while thing - it sounded like if there wern't a toddler running around you would like it and consider it a good fit. the 2nd gym you mentioned sounded like you liked it and it had a good fit for you too. the last gym sounded like you wanted to like it but deep down you know its not the right fit.

 

[gymdog]

Usually when I evaluate for placement at the level described, I wouldn't really look at any habits they had in terms of polish (they can be coming out of rec class onto this level...that is the point, this level is to polish the basic skills) but what their ability is in terms of strength, flexibility, and being able to perform the basic skills with some level of competence. So if multiple gyms said the same thing, my guess is she isn't strong enough yet for a stricter level 3 program (not unusual at 5) and needs to gain more strength to keep up with that kind of class. It is hard to say from your description whether the class was appropriate or not for her ability. If you want to be in a team level, strength and basics are very important but it just takes time and skipping over steps and pushing the kids ahead doesn't necessarily help. When they're ready they will do the stuff, and many gyms wouldn't usually place 5 year olds into team groups.

 

[dmytv]

She is only 5 so I think you have alot of room for error. I think I would honestly choose the 1st program. She is used to being on team which says alot for a 5yr old. Most do not have the attention span. Putting her back to rec would only bore her. Let her do level 3 or 2 at the smaller gym. Maybe when she gets serious or at optionals move her to the gym that is an hour away. For now put her where she can learn to compete and have kids her own age. The 3rd gym seems a bit pompus to me. After all it is only level 3.

 

[GymBee97]

Most of all make sure she is having FUN first! If there isn't fun she won't last.

 

[kwnative]

As for the first gym, I agree with what a previous poster said about trying to find out if the toddler running around was the norm or an exception. Maybe her sitter fell through that day? If it is the norm, she can't be fully concentrating on coaching if she is always having to monitor what her child is doing. The second gym sounds like they are on top of things. However, if she moves up in the team program, you will be there a LOT, and an hour is a really, really long way to drive. Heck, we drive 15-20 minutes, but going day after day after day, even that seems a little far sometimes. Carpools definitely help, but unless they put you in touch with the people in your area, it will take a while to develop those relationships. The third gym sounds pretty good. We may have a few 5 year olds on our developmental team, but my daughter competed L3 in the fall, and I don't think there was anyone under age 6 on her team, and only one or two that young. At age 5, she has a while. I think I might go with a gym not too far from you that you feel comfortable with. Then if she goes very far and you feel like she needs to be challenged more, switch her to the gym far away.

 

[gymmomtoo]

well I would eliminate gym 2 right away--an hour drive one way for a 5 yr old is just too much for me (heck, I'd be hesitant to do it for my 15 yr old!). Sounds like gym 3 has relegated her to their rec program. She can certainly work her way back, but it might be several months. I would look at gym 1 again--our own gym had a few things stolen from cars and it didn't reflect on the gym at all (I was happy they warned people)--and didn't last long. And at least the coach corrected her son that was running around--not letting him run wild. Give it a try, it sounds like she's going to be bored in her current classes.

 

[gymgal]

If you have gyms in your area, I wouldn't recommend driving an hr away for a 5yr old. If she is still showing talent and motivation for gymnastics in a few years, then you can look into the stronger gym. As for the other two, it really depends on what your gut feeling was for each.

 

[EastCoastGymMom]

I think your daughter would benefit more from being in a developmental program instead of competing in the lower levels, but maybe that's just what I'm used to in my area. It sounds like she needs more work on her form and basic skills (which is completely understandable and expected at five years old!). If she moves forward without those basics, it will be harder to correct later. Is there a developmental class or "preteam" option where she would spend more time working on her skills and form, and less time working on routines and worrying about competing?

I would absolutely not drive my 5 year old an hour to practice each way, even my older dd would not be able to tolerate that drive several times a week. And once she's on upper level team and practicing 3-4 hours at a time, you will be stuck there all night because it's too far to just drop her off.

 

[Nikki4]

I think your daughter would benefit more from being in a developmental program instead of competing in the lower levels, but maybe that's just what I'm used to in my area. It sounds like she needs more work on her form and basic skills (which is completely understandable and expected at five years old!). If she moves forward without those basics, it will be harder to correct later. Is there a developmental class or "preteam" option where she would spend more time working on her skills and form, and less time working on routines and worrying about competing?

I would absolutely not drive my 5 year old an hour to practice each way, even my older dd would not be able to tolerate that drive several times a week. And once she's on upper level team and practicing 3-4 hours at a time, you will be stuck there all night because it's too far to just drop her off.

That's what they said this class was. but she's been on preteam class before and they actually worked on skills and polishing form and stuff, getting ready for team stuff. but this class so far looks completly rec. we go again tonight, i'm curious if it'll be the same stuff.

the 2nd gym that's an hour away was definitly a last resort. I just wanted to drive out there to see exactly how long away it was and what all the hooplah was about. yeah they have a carpool and actually put us in touch with the one over our way, but an hour is too much at 5. maybe later when she's older.

does it further complicate things if I told you we already paid yearly fees and this months tution at the 3rd gym? I liked the gym and the class sounded like what dd needed, so we signed up. I guess we should have tried this one too first.
would it better is we dropped one of the classes and did a private lesson each week instead. She wants back on team. I explained to her that she has to get a little stronger and they want to make sure she's doing everything correctly so she can do the big stuff later on, but I don't think she really understands. All she knows is she's not a "level" anymore. How do you deal with a demotion at this age?

I think I will call the first gym and ask if they mind if we can come try another practice. And one more thing, the first gym level 2's practice 3 days a week for 3 hours each. I thought that was a bit much?

 

[MaryA]

If I had to guess, I would bet that "Rockateer" is a class for girls who they are "fast tracking" (thus the "rocket" reference) to team. Since you paid, I would stay out the year. Since she's not on team, you have no commitments to them after the year is out and by then you should be more aware of what is available in your area and have a better feel for the other gyms. I definitely wouldn't be paying for private lessons at 5, unless you happen to be made of money (in which case, please consider adopting me ). If she's having fun, and learning good habits, that's all that matters.

 

[EastCoastGymMom]

I do think 9 hours a week is a bit much for a five year old, but maybe that's the norm in your area.

I personally think the "Rockateer" class sounds perfect for her! I think most parents underestimate the value of strength and flexibility training and working on basics like handstands, casts, vault steps, etc.... if they have good basic skills and strength, the "big" skills will come much easier later on. It's only an hour class once a week though? Is it supposed to be in addition to the rec class?

Also, as far as the gym office asking if the "level" was competitive and her age, that sounds completely normal and necessary. Most gyms have level classes for rec too, so there's a big difference between being in a "Level 3 rec class" and "Level 3 team."

If I was in your shoes, I'd talk to the staff at gym #3 again. Find out what the plan is for your daughter and where they see her going over the next year or two. They might have higher standards for "team" than your old gym, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[sjm2b3]

My DD did the hot shots/TAGs, whatever you want to call it from the time she was 3. It was never a ton of hours (anywhere from 3 a week to 6 as she got older, age 6ish). There was a separate track for those who did levels 2 and 3. We've changed gyms since then, and this gym just combines everyone. I really don't think anything she did at age 3-5 made too much of a difference except really getting her to love gymnastics and learn to listen! I am a believer that when they are ready to get the skill, they'll get it.

As far as competing levels 2-3 (the current ones), I think it depends on the kid. I think some really want to compete, so it's great. For us, it would have meant a lot of money and meets at such a young age that it was better to just start at level 4 at age 6.

I know I'm not answering your question directly about which gym--that's hard to help with, but I would say competing level 2-3 is definitely not 'necessary'. I would not do privates at that age, but again, that's just me. They grow up so quickly and it starts to consume their lives, so now is the time to make sure they have fun and play and get to try other things too!

 

[gymmomtotwo]

I would probably give up on the idea that she needs to compete right now. The majority of gymnastics programs do not compete the low levels, and a 5 year old doesn't need to compete. That in fact is probably why she is where she is right now. Has skills but they skipped some other important things on the way in order to get them ready to compete, rather than develop what she needs to set a foundation for the future. Honestly, this sounds alot like what our 5 year old fast trackers, preteamers are doing. The vault exercise sounds extremely boring, yet doing it properly is really important. My 6 year old level 4 equivalent daughters group still does this drill every once and a while just to review. I'd keep with gym 3 as long as they assured me that she is on an eventual team track. I think the class you describe is what she needs to get where you want her to be in the next couple of years.

 

[mommyof1]

I think most parents underestimate the value of strength and flexibility training and working on basics like handstands, casts, vault steps, etc.... if they have good basic skills and strength, the "big" skills will come much easier later on.

My daughter's preteam group, which is called Level 1, spends most of the time working on basics and conditioning. On floor, they are working on perfecting their forward and backward rolls, cartwheels, bridge kickovers, and handstands (especially the "T"/"lever" action mentioned by the original poster). The expectations regarding form are much more exacting than in rec. For instance, in rec no one cares whether they "unroll" at the end of a forward roll, but on preteam they are expected to stay tucked until they stand up. On beam, they are just doing walks and little jumps. On bars, it's just hanging in various positions, pullovers, and casts. On vault, all they are working on is punching the board with an arm circle. They also do rope climbs, leg lifts, handstands against the wall, etc. The second level of preteam (called Level 2) is where they start working skills like tic-tocs, the Level 4 backwards roll, back handsprings, and back hip circles. I get the impression that some of the Level 1 parents have been complaining to the coaches about the fact that their daughters are not working on exciting skills.

To the original poster, I would watch the technique class very carefully to see what kinds of instructions and corrections are being given. If the class is specifically for kids in the "Rocketeers" program, and the expectations for form are high, then it could be a great fit for your daughter at this point.

 

[Linsul]

I'm going to throw in my .02 as a advanced preschool/ developmental coach, it pretty much echos what Gymdog and others have said. When I look for advanced preschool kids, I'm looking for a someone I think can eventually do the developmental level, and at developmental, I'm looking for a child that could conceivably "go all the way."

When I look at a preschooler, I want very few things. I want them to be able to do jumping jacks, skip, and 10 straight leg straight jumps in a row with naturally pointing foot action. Doesn't have to be perfect push and point, but the inclination to point is important to me. Jumping jacks are an easy way to see if they can use different muscle groups together. Do they slide their feet out or jump and point? Skipping is a coordination thing and to see how they use their legs. Do they pick their feet up or drag them? Point their toes? Turn their legs out sideways or get confused at the step and hop? If they can sort it out with a little help that's okay too. If they can skip, how do they run? You'd be amazed at how many kids can't run, and I don't mean track star perfect. I mean something that is less of a frolic and more of a "I want to get somewhere fast." Can they do a pullover on bars? Do they get scared when I ask them to do it alone? Can they fall backwards into the pit with a straight body without turning their head sideways? Do they lock their knees after I show them how?

Also their temperament. Does having the complete attention of an adult make them nervous or make them want to show off? Will they answer a question or ask one if they don't understand? Do splits and a chin up make them cry if it hurts? If they need to try something 5+ times to get it right are they done, or are they game to get it right? If I make something they're good at harder, to do they crumble or go for it?

Notice how none of the above are skills? It's because once they get into focused body shaping and drills for strength and flexibility any skill they have at the time is going to look 100% different. If I could say anything here and have it stick, it would be "please don't ever be afraid to see your 4-5yr old focusing on the fundamentals of gymnastics that will carry them throughout a career in the sport." Trust me when I say you don't want your child learning how to lock her knees, point her toes, or any other form break that incurs deduction while they're learning actual skills on a team and prepping for competition.

Long story short: A program that focuses little ones on the details may seem "boring" or even pointless, but once they move on to pre team or team and the skills start piling up, they're going to look beautiful. Also be easier because the little things will be closer to second nature. Look at the "rocket" type programs as a great way to sharpen the axe of her gymnastics edge, and once she goes at the tree that is the skills she'll be prepared!

 

[gymdog]

Agree, furthermore based on her reaction to the class it does not sound like she views this as a demotion. You view it as a demotion because the previous gym may have overestimated her ability to compete level 3 this year. I don't mean this in a harsh way, just trying to give you a realistic, not sugar coated version. It's very rare for a 5 year old to do all level 3 skills competently. It is easy for parents to pass on a certain attitude to their child. I would try the class until the end of the school year at least. She's in kindergarten. At some gyms they are grouping kids together in order to accelerate them. You could be underestimating them. If it's generally a strong program and kids indeed go from "Rocketeers" to team, then I think you are doing okay for now.

 

[Muddlethru]

My daughter is now an L9 and we switched gyms a couple months ago. We were told she was doing some skills incorrectly. The new coach changed her bar and vault settings, and told my daughter she'll be doing swings on bars the first week to get used to the settings. They took her down to basic level 9 skills on all apparatuses. I was pretty anxious like you. How about all her other L9 skills she worked so hard to get? Luckily, she is fast learner and progressed faster than the coach anticipated and started doing her L9 skills sooner than planned. I also remember taking her to a clinic at Parkettes a couple of years ago and they spent what seemed like 45 mins. just doing cartwheels on floor.

My point is, as parents, we do not know how a skills should be done and which skills are necessary building blocks. If it looks good, it must be right. But it seems like a lot more goes into performing a skill than the inexperienced eyes can see. I think getting the right form and performing the most basic skill correctly is necessary in building a good foundation so you can progress safely and successfully. I'd rather get things right from the beginning than throw years of training relearning a skill. Lastly, I think if the gym is a good, well managed organization, they will move her up or out if she is no longer benefitting from the class.

 

[iwannacoach]

My daughter is now an L9 and we switched gyms a couple months ago. We were told she was doing some skills incorrectly. The new coach changed her bar and vault settings, and told my daughter she'll be doing swings on bars the first week to get used to the settings. They took her down to basic level 9 skills on all apparatuses............ I also remember taking her to a clinic at Parkettes a couple of years ago and they spent what seemed like 45 mins. just doing cartwheels on floor.

My point is, as parents, we do not know how skills should be done and which skills are necessary building blocks. If it looks good, it must be right. But it seems like a lot more goes into performing a skill than the inexperienced eyes can see. I think getting the right form and performing the most basic skill correctly is necessary in building a good foundation so you can progress safely and successfully.

And that's the way it is!!!

I once watched Shannon Miller, one of the world's best ever, do nothing but forward and backward roll shape exercises during a brief workout. It struck me odd, at the time, that possibly the best gymnast to grace this sport (to that point in time) would spend that amount of time doing something so basic........ Hmmmm, maybe she was getting ready for that "rocketeer" class, but I now think she was just solidifying her understanding of how to move as efficiently as possible in that particular motion.

It must have worked, no...not the rocketeer class...., because the following year she led the USA team to an olympic gold medal finish, and earned an individual gold on balance beam.

Go figure!

 

[Nikki4]

The standards here are definitly higher, and that's not a bad thing.
Not harsh at all gymdog! I agree she moved up too fast. she was in the "get ready for team" class and I questioned it when they skipped her up to train level 3. her coaches assured us it would be fine, so we went with it.

I talked to the front desk last night during class and I do feel better about it. she said they do the same things in each class all week to really focus on certain things. she said once dd fixes the issues she'll be moved right back to team. probably in a few weeks and that they do have kids dd's age on team sometimes.
maybe I am crazy gym mom! lol I gotta relax and just go with it!