IOC launching probe into He Kexin's age

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Cynical-Chick

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Mar 5, 2008
374
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Anyone else amused that there is apparently an entity in gymnastics or reporting called xxxxxxx? Rude GGMB name for Romania.
 
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bogwoppit

Former Admin
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Feb 26, 2007
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Please be careful when copying and pasting from GGMB, they have a word filter that replaces many names and phrases with ones that are not appropriate here. GGMB is strictly member only and over 18 years of age. Here we have all ages and some of their word filters should NOT be used here.

Thanks,

Bog :D
 

lemonsnaps154332

New Member
Aug 12, 2008
20
I did not say I am not "proud" to be an American - What I said is that comments like that make me feel ashamed to be called an American - that is my own personal feelings & I am entitled to them. gymdog & gym mum very eloquently described why this was not a funny, or amusing comment to make, and I agree wholeheartedly.


As to this issue, I personally think (my opinion) is that all of the "their cheating" shout outs is all based on assumption. There is no proof that any of the gymnasts that particapated are underage. If they were deceptive then they will be dealt with accordingly. IMO this so called "un-investigation" is just a little too late. There are no new facts to report. There is also more to the story that most don't realize because they only pay attention to bits and pieces of these news releases - for instance: the issue with He's age being listed as 11 or 12 in 2006 could actually be related to her age being LOWERED to participate in inner-city games. I am not calling that fact, or that it would be considered right, but if that is the case then her age discrepancy would not be relative to the Olympic games.

As to the US and this never happening here... I guarantee that there are competitions that are particapated in where parents or clubs have deceptively changed an age to compete, or compete in a different age group.

About falsifying birth certificates in the US. This is a very personal story, but I wanted to show that it is not completely impossible. Keep in mind I was a teenager at this time for bashing purposes.... My dad decided he wanted to change my little sisters name (for untold reasons) , walked into the county office (outside of Sacto nonetheless) told them my little sis had ben born outside of a hospital & he needed to register her birth - she was 2 at the time. He walked out with a fresh ready to sign stamped document, brought it back for me to sign as her mother, and brought it back to them for official registration. Her name, DOB, and parents were changed and it was now a completely legal birth certificate - it took him an hour.


Your missing the whole point. Its not that no Americans cheat, its that the American government doesn't help the athletes cheat or force them to do so. Its one thing to change your birth certificate for personal reasons, in another thing intierly for the US government to change your birth certificate so you could cheat in the olympics. Thats what the comment meant, people in other countries say fat people live in America, are you offended by that? Because thats a racial comment as well. I don't think any child would think only fat people live in the US or all fat people live in the US. The comment should have been cheaters run China, not cheaters live in China.
 
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gracefulone

Guest
I am really tired of hearing about this. Straight up-that's how I feel now. I want the IOC to do the most thorough investigation that they can, and I want the issue to be laid to rest. I really hope that the Chinese athletes are confirmed to be of age, but only if all measures were taken in insuring so. I will be disappointed if it is true they have lied and cheated, and hope that approrpiate consequences are dealt out. I honestly just want it to be all over with no more finger-pointing or what-ifs.
 

gymdog

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Jul 5, 2007
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Unfortunately it would appear the IOC is not even motivated enough to conduct the investigation themselves as they seem to have handed it to FIG and then described it as "not a formal investigation." I don't have very high hopes for FIG's investigative skills, but then again, who knows.

Your missing the whole point. Its not that no Americans cheat, its that the American government doesn't help the athletes cheat or force them to do so.

This is pretty accurate as the American government mostly seems too busy with their own scandals to abet any USAG hijinks.

Its one thing to change your birth certificate for personal reasons, in another thing intierly for the US government to change your birth certificate so you could cheat in the olympics. Thats what the comment meant, people in other countries say fat people live in America, are you offended by that? Because thats a racial comment as well. I don't think any child would think only fat people live in the US or all fat people live in the US. The comment should have been cheaters run China, not cheaters live in China.

If that is what the comment meant then I really can't understand how it would even be vaguely helpful in helping young children discern appropriate work ethic standards. Most of the kids I know don't really catch on to subleties like that, even if they are quite bright, and I have no doubt that the children in question here are very bright and capable young ladies. As far as fat people living in America, I would also consider it to be a generalization aimed at cutting down an entire culture for seemingly agenda driven reasons and as my general visceral reaction to such generalizations is that they are part of a poisonous discoure, I suspect I would also reject it. It's not accurate and blanket statements are no way to speak to children about serious issues as they tend to take statements at surface value.

People live in American and people live in China. I believe there is virtually no greater lesson children can learn as the come of age in a time when interpersonal skills are increasingly necessary to compete in a global economy. Real people are so much more than their body mass index or the ages of their country's gymnastics team, and so I see little to no inherent value in statements like "cheaters live in China" or "fat people live in America." So what? What valuable implications are contained in such statements that could possibly make them a valid way to impart wisdom to children???

I was pleased to see the way the girls on the US team dealt with the scandal. Asked about possible cheating, they left the speculation and ultimate decision about the scandal to those it was appropriately delegated to, and praised the skill of their competitors "no matter what their age." These girls refused to be victims. They refused to cut themselves down in the process.

The true test of sportsmanship in the face of cheating is to maintain your own dignity rather than resort to cutting down those despite their attempts to disrespect you by cheating. I'm reminded of Thomas Friedman's description of a proverb he saw while visiting global manufacturers to research "The World is Flat." The proverb talks about gazelles running faster than the fastest lion to avoid being eaten, and lions running faster than the fastest gazelle to avoid starving. "It doesn't matter if you are a lion or a gazelle; when the sun comes up, you better start running," concludes the proverb.

The only thing we can really control is our own performance, and our own reaction to others. We cannot control how others choose to interpret (or misinterpret) ethical behavior. Most likely, someone will always be cheating. Someone will almost always be better or as good as you, and sometimes they will be cheating. The important to thing to know is that you can choose - you have within your power - to be an ethical person and maintain your own standards regardless of others. Even when you don't get anything from it and others do. You can choose not to cheat, always, and to do right by yourself, excluding the behavior of others. This is a very empowering concept. These girls should know they shouldn't cheat on their conditioning, not because they are not Chinese, but because not doing so is a way to empower themselves.
 
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kgymn

Member
Gymnast
Aug 3, 2008
324
Virginia
It sounds to me like the IOC has asked the FIG to, more or less, simply review the documents again that they already reviewed. This is hardly going to bring anything to light if it wasn't when they looked at the documents before. It's a bit ridiculous when numerous sources, official ones, quoted He's age as 14 (13 last year) or very clearly stated her birth date as 1/1/1994... yet the only documentation of her being age eligible are documents created for the benefit of her being able to compete. Just because the official documents were found via the internet doesn't make them any less real, and we know the Chinese government censors the internet there. It's completely in line with the Chinese governments actions of censorship in general for them to suddenly remove or change references to He's age... and it has been proven they did so using the Cache feature in Google which in essence takes a snapshot of the website at a moment in time and is kept available through the search.

~Katy
 

Ingymmom

Active Member
Jul 12, 2007
981
Fig has actually requested more documentation including
passports, identity cards and family booklets. The FIG says they are making as thorough analysis as possible of the papers for 5 of the 6 gymnasts (obviously not for Fei).​
 
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NYgymfan

Guest
I certainly do not think all chinese people are cheaters. I happen to know some very hardworking and good chinese immigrants, and some of them have just as strong a work ethic, or even stronger, then us Americans. They are embarrassed enough as it is that this scandal is going on in their home country and would be appalled to know that American coaches are planting these kinds of falsehoods in little kids' heads. There is a huge difference between the Chinese government and the Chinese people. If anything, it sounds like the Chinese government is to blame and not necessarily the gymnasts. So shame on whatever coaches are labeling all Chinese as cheaters, and I also don't think it was the best thing for that to be posted in this forum either.

That being said, I still think medals should be stripped if it is determined that cheating occurred. One of the requirements for earning a medal is being 16 by December 31, not just being an awesome gymnast. Awesome gymnasts they are, but if they are not really 16 by December 31, then they did not earn those medals. I dont think the punishment should be any different just because the Chinese have a different system for gymnastics then we do.
 

kgymn

Member
Gymnast
Aug 3, 2008
324
Virginia
OMG the coach did NOT remotely say "All Chinese are cheaters" that's just how some uptight people choose to interpret it. I think people are thinking way too much and are being a bit too touchy. I'm 99.99999? sure that's not remotely what the coach meant (OR how the kids interpreted it!)

~Katy
 

Ingymmom

Active Member
Jul 12, 2007
981
ESPN Jim Caple's Fabulous article

Such a great article. So funny... why can't everyone just get it like this? LOL
:rotfl:


BEIJING -- So, the International Olympic Committee wants the International Gymnastics Federation to investigate the ages of Chinese gymnasts to put the matter to rest once and for all.



http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summe...e_jim&id=3548749&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos2#

I'm not sure what it hopes to find because the Chinese government assures us its gymnasts were all of qualifying age -- despite many documents to the contrary, plus the fact that one was seen competing with her umbilical cord still attached. And the Chinese government would never lie, would it? Just as our presidents never tell a fib. :p


The IOC can save a lot of time, effort and money by taking a far simpler, more conclusive and, quite frankly, obvious approach to this issue. If it wants to know whether an athlete is cheating, simply check the passports. If they say "U.S. citizen," then the athletes are above suspicion. If they say anything else, they are guilty. (Well, maybe not the Canadians, who aren't suspicious because they're not winning anything.)


Hasn't the IOC been paying attention to American Olympic coverage over the decades? Our Olympians are always clean. It's the other athletes who cheat like foreign accountants in offshore tax havens.


Those Chinese swimmers who medaled in the women's 200-meter butterfly? They clearly juiced because there is no way a relatively unknown team could medal and shave such time off previous world records. Only an American who has been on the cover of Time magazine, such as 41-year-old hero Dara Torres, could do that without raising suspicions. I mean, c'mon! Our success in the pool wasn't a surprise. Everyone expected our swimmers to win tons of medals, and they did, even though they had to overcome all the people who said they couldn't do it.


And those newfangled speedsuits had nothing to do with their world-record times, either, so you can just forget about that right now.


Which brings me to all those nations who keep stocking their teams with ringers. Becky Hammon competing for Russia even though she doesn't speak the language? Milorad Cavic swimming for Serbia even though he grew up in Anaheim (I didn't realize Disneyland had been part of the former Yugoslavia)? Appalling. America would never fast-track athletes for citizenship, unless perhaps they were from Africa and had awesome qualifying times.

These countries are merely trying to surpass our gold-medal total, which is foolhardy. The Chinese even regularly update their "Olympics-leading" gold tally on chalk and message boards throughout the city. That's just sad, and a terrible twisting of the true Olympic spirit.

The Olympics aren't about which country wins the most gold medals; they're about which country wins the most medals, period. And America holds a solid lead there. Besides, the "official" gold tally neglects all the multiple golds we've won on relay teams and in other team sports. This just isn't fair. How can you not count all gold medals that are handed out to an entire team? By the time you include all our gold medals -- eight for each men's swimming relay team because the athletes in the qualifying heats get them, as well -- I bet we'll have a commanding lead there.


But I do hope the IOC gets to the bottom of this age controversy because it is damaging the credibility of gymnastics, which is otherwise utterly beyond reproach and never subject to the manipulation of biased or petty judges. That, of course, is due to the straightforward and easily understood scoring system that is such a hit with viewers. :rotfl:


Something, after all, must be done to prevent immature, underage girls from being thrown into an intense, pressure-packed international competition they are far too young to handle emotionally. Forcing a young girl to compete like that would be like entering a 6-year-old in a beauty contest, or a fifth grader in a national spelling bee, or expecting an 11-year-old boy to compete in a worldwide baseball tournament on national TV. Americans just don't believe in placing that kind of pressure on children. :rotfl::rotfl:


By the way, be sure to tune into the Little League World Series this weekend on ESPN. I just hope those foreign kids with the beards and mustaches are really 12. ;)
 

I-Heart-Beam

Active Member
Sep 9, 2007
964
Scotland
But I do hope the IOC gets to the bottom of this age controversy because it is damaging the credibility of gymnastics, which is otherwise utterly beyond reproach and never subject to the manipulation of biased or petty judges. That, of course, is due to the straightforward and easily understood scoring system that is such a hit with viewers.

Pure class- that's been the best thing about this whole rigmarole- some seriously funny comments have come out of it.
 

lemonsnaps154332

New Member
Aug 12, 2008
20
I don't think Americans are annoyed because other teams are cheating and we think we never cheat. I think Americans are annoyed because when we cheat we get looked down up, the media turns on us, and its a whole big deal, but when other countries do it, nobody cares. Everyone knows America cheats and lies, but we get called out on it.
 
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LasswadeCoach

Guest
''Americans just don't believe in placing that kind of pressure on children.''

What a load of rubbish!! The age limit was enforced in the first place because countries (America being one of them) push young kids on difficult skills far too quickly (for example round-off flic at four years old!!)
 

Ingymmom

Active Member
Jul 12, 2007
981
''Americans just don't believe in placing that kind of pressure on children.''

What a load of rubbish!! The age limit was enforced in the first place because countries (America being one of them) push young kids on difficult skills far too quickly (for example round-off flic at four years old!!)

That was the point Rach - he was being sarcastic! :rotfl:a really great article - I love it:p
 

Ingymmom

Active Member
Jul 12, 2007
981
Expanding Investigation

Wellllllllll, now the IOC has decided to expand their investigation to include members of the 2000 team that won a bronze in Sydney, add Yang Yun and Dong Fangxiao to the list....

this is going to take Forevah!
 

bogwoppit

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I am sure it'll take forever and nothing will come of it. Typical IOC bs.:rolleyes:
 
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