Parents Just a typical morning at Starbucks!

[Gymnast C's mom]

As I was sipping my coffee at Starbucks this morning (enjoying a rare free moment to myself) I overhear this conversation.

"Kids who are high achievers in sports and practice many hours per week cannot possibly be high achievers academically unless they sacrifice sleep, those kids sleep only 4 hours per night max".

Yikes! We are for sure in a highly rated school district but jeez... I am not worried as dd is only in first grade but would love to hear what others think of this statement?

Any truth to it?

 

[kayjaybe]

My 9th grade L8 with almost all honors classes and a 4.2 GPA would disagree with that person.

 

[NutterButter]

True, but slightly exaggerated. DD averages 6 hours of sleep/night but there are plenty of nights in the 4-5 hour range. DD is at an academically rigorous public high school and is taking the most difficult curriculum offered to 9th graders (mix of honors, AP, IB). She gets all A's and sleep is for sure sacrificed.

 

[sevenatenine2]

In my experience, the ones who can succeed at both are high-achieving, Type A personalities, and are willing to sacrifice almost all of their free time and/or social time in order to be successful at both OR they are just insanely gifted in one or both areas.

We tried. My daughter is fairly talented in both gym and school, but lacks a little talent in the organization/motivation department. So, she trains gymnastics with low/moderate hours and also does well in school (just made her first B last marking period), but definitely doesn't meet her potential on either front.

I tried really pushing the discipline on her for her to be more successful in gym and school (it's so hard to see that they could do it if they wanted to) but it was making her miserable. She may have the highest IQ in her grade, but she doesn't have the discipline to be valedictorian, for example, bc she doesn't spend the time necessary to make sure all of her answers are flawless before turning it in. Same with her beam routine.

Eventually, I learned I wasn't going to change her personality and it wasn't worth making her miserable trying to be someone she's not. I laid off and she's still vastly more successful with both endeavors than an average Joe, so who am I to be fussing at her lack of effort and making her miserable?

 

[Gymmom0403]

My dd is a l9 freshman at a private school. She is able to be successful at the gym as well as carry a 4.1 gpa. She also sleeps average 8 hrs a night. She needs her sleep! Lol
I know she has free periods at school where she will go do her homework. Her friends all tell her she can do it later. But she knows after 4 hour practice she would rather get home shower and sleep
So she is extremely organized and always on top of what needs to be done. But if the kid didn't sleep it would be bad news for all.

 

[Gymnast C's mom]

True, but slightly exaggerated. DD averages 6 hours of sleep/night but there are plenty of nights in the 4-5 hour range. DD is at an academically rigorous public high school and is taking the most difficult curriculum offered to 9th graders (mix of honors, AP, IB). She gets all A's and sleep is for sure sacrificed.

Thanks for sharing. As I said we are not there yet so this is just more curiosity for me at this point. Our plan is to continue in public schools and our public high school is academically rigorous as well. I do think this is exactly the type of situation to which the women were referring (the most difficult curriculum plus significant sports training). I am glad to hear your dd is managing well. Amazing!!

 

[Gymnast C's mom]

In my experience, the ones who can succeed at both are high-achieving, Type A personalities, and are willing to sacrifice almost all of their free time and/or social time in order to be successful at both OR they are just insanely gifted in one or both areas.

Eventually, I learned I wasn't going to change her personality and it wasn't worth making her miserable trying to be someone she's not. I laid off and she's still vastly more successful with both endeavors than an average Joe, so who am I to be fussing at her lack of effort and making her miserable?

Exactly. You are right and I will remember this! Hard to know yet where dd will fall. She is definitely NOT insanely gifted in either area. Average in gym and probably above average academically but not off the charts.

 

[kayjaybe]

To add on to my previous post - I agree with pps that they likely sacrifice other things, not just sleep. My dd will do her homework during free time in school or on the bus. She also doesn't let assignments go until the last minute. She has learned how to pace herself to make sure she is getting her schoolwork done around her gym schedule. This might mean doing more homework on the weekend to get ahead of it for the next week.

That said, our gym doesn't have insane hours. Dd practices about 16-18 hours/week. We are lucky to have a short commute of about 15 minutes. I think some of the long commutes can cut into the sleep time as well.

 

[mommyof1]

I don't know how it's possible for a teen to sleep 4 - 6 hours a night on a regular basis and be a high achiever. Lack of sleep impairs cognitive function. As an adult I can muddle through on that much sleep for a few days, but I am much less efficient and my work is not up to my usual quality standards.

 

[gracyomalley]

My oldest is a high school sophomore, almost virtuoso (plays at college and graduate student internationa festivals all summer) violinist and was a successful L8 as a freshman, doing 16 hours of gym a week - but unable to make the jump to L10 (he's a boy...and the age rules changed and required him to do so) this fall, so dropped back in gym and only trained about 10 hours a week and didn't compete. He has a 4.3 GPA and 3 AP courses this year, NHS, and such - BUT he goes to a charter school with college type scheduling and gets 2 full credits for PE and fine arts just for his gym and music, so can take advanced classes but not be overloaded with too much homework and class time. He really had to pick between fully excelling with music or gym - as school was a requirement AND he loves it....

My middle child is a high school freshman at the same charter and already has 16 credits. She too is in the AP Capstone track and has a GPA over 4.0. However, she left gym at L8, and took a couple years off. She's starting back up next week and I am expecting a lot of time management challenges (amongst everything else involved in trying to get you Yurchenko back after 2 years....). She's also going back to gym because she misses gymnastics so much, not to acheive anything amazing (having missed 2 years she now is "older" - which is actually good because she really didn't do well with the pressure of being a youngish L8) and is not expecting NCAA or any such thing anymore....hopefully will just enjoy it, stay healthy and well rounded through high school.

Neither child gets enough sleep (they are up at 515 due to travel to the charter school), but due to their school's flexibility they can catch up when needed...

No, I don't think they can "do it all", but if school and gym is flexible they can "do all of it some".....

 

[JumpingBean]

They do sacrifice a lot. My dds are not there yet, but I was (not gymnastics). I averaged 5-6 hours of sleep and had almost no free time weekdays or weekends. If there was a party or evert I REALLY wanted to go to, I planned ahead: asked for homework in advance, woke up even earlier, etc.

 

[tomtnt]

that's why it's even more impressive to see someone like Rachel Flamm entering Stanford next year... she apparently has a 4.4 GPA while also having won JO Nationals multiple years...

 

[NutterButter]

Thanks for sharing. As I said we are not there yet so this is just more curiosity for me at this point. Our plan is to continue in public schools and our public high school is academically rigorous as well. I do think this is exactly the type of situation to which the women were referring (the most difficult curriculum plus significant sports training). I am glad to hear your dd is managing well. Amazing!!

Yes, she somehow makes it all work. But I worry about the overall lack of sleep. I worry about burnout. My DD has anxiety which so far she has been doing a great job managing but at times it all feels so precarious. Like one thing can go wrong and set in motion a whole lot of things going wrong. Like last week she had a major paper due and she had state. The paper was assigned on a Friday and due the following Thursday at midnight (with state on Friday). Because of how the paper was structured with in-class work, it was impossible to work ahead very much over the weekend. So she completed other stuff over the weekend to free up her week because she knew the paper would dominate (and it was one paper for two different classes, a cross-discipline thing they do in IB). Normally on weeks with a major assignment she would miss a day of practice and/or have a few nights with 4-5 hours sleep knowing she can catch up at the end of the week. But that wasn't an option last week with state on Friday because she really wanted to qualify for regionals and she knew it would be difficult if she was sleep deprived and missed practice. So, she made a plan of what needed to get done each day. She was doing great on her plan but then felt really sick on Wednesday and basically got nothing done on her paper that day in school or at night. So, what to do - skip school the next day and work on her paper? Skip gymnastics and work on the paper? Go to school and gym and then stay up until 2am the night before the meet? All of them bad options. She could have turned it in late, with a letter grade deduction. The whole situation just sucked.

Anxiety, burnout and mental health issues are very real at DDs school. And most kids aren't involved in the level of after school activity that she is. And I have no clue how she will manage her junior year if she wants to pursue the most rigorous curriculum offered at her school. In addition to an increased work load there is also a mandatory zero hour class that year. The reality is that she will probably have to choose between gym and the IB diploma. And no, my DD is not academically gifted at all. She just works hard and she's organized.

 

[NutterButter]

She's also going back to gym because she misses gymnastics so much

Not to hijack -- but I'm glad to read this @gracyomalley ! I remember your DD's journey well because our DDs seem to be of a similar temperament.

 

[Seeker]

I don't know how it's possible for a teen to sleep 4 - 6 hours a night on a regular basis and be a high achiever. Lack of sleep impairs cognitive function. As an adult I can muddle through on that much sleep for a few days, but I am much less efficient and my work is not up to my usual quality standards.

They might do it, but it certainly isn't healthy to go thru 4-yrs (of puberty and emotional maturation) on that little sleep. I wouldn't set my dd up for that life...

 

[tomtnt]

wonder what the minimal hours you could get away with and still train successfully as a level 10 gymnast. large amount of time at gym is dedicated to moving mats and waiting for your turn. wonder if 1-on-1 situation like iceskating or smaller groups would be more efficient leaving time for school and sleep.

 

[my4buffaloes]

I don't think that is the norm! My sophomore dd is a level 9, in the gym 20 hours a week, taking honors classes, 4.5 GPA, etc. She works her butt off at school to complete her work THERE. Study hall she is working away (most play on their phones), the 5 minutes at the beginning and end of class that others goof off and chat during, she is working away. Any free time at all during the day and she is doing homework and studying. Weekends she gets ahead for the coming week and spends 4-6 hours doing school work one day per weekend. She gets between 8-9 hours of sleep a night. Her day is wake up, school, straight to gym, home around 9, eat, shower, bed - do it all again the next day.

What I have noticed amongst her friends, including those in the gym, is that they only half do their homework and it takes forever. Meaning they are watching TV or texting friends while doing homework and studying. That drags it out. And they aren't willing to do homework at school. So they are up late. My girl needs her sleep and she knows it. Would not be able to function on 4 hours of sleep even once.

 

[LinnieC]

I think that is an exaggeration. My daughter is only in the 6th grade but we are in the top school district in our state and she is in all advanced classes. She is a level 7 gymnast. She averages about 8 hours of sleep a night. She is definitely more tired this year than ever before (up until this year, she averaged around 10 hours of sleep). However, we ARE contemplating virtual schooling for next year...

 

[MILgymFAM]

I would guess its highly dependent on area. I would guess between 4-6 hours of sleep is what optional gymnasts average around us. There is just massive amounts of homework that no study hall (we don't know anyone who has study hall btw) could cover.

 

[Seeker]

It definitely depends on your school and district. My daughter had several hours of homework a night several times a week/on weekends and no study hall or free periods to do homework during the school day. They were actually not allowed to work on homework during the school day. This would have been the structure up thru 8th grade, with an ever increasing level of expectation of group-work and project engagement outside of school hours. This was untenable to me.

She pushes herself and would always stay up as late as needed to get the assignments done, but the value of "work" past a certain point is greatly diminished. I did not feel that this situation was ideal or sustainable, so I opened to the idea of an alternative option. She has done virtual classes for the past 3 years and is above grade level in every subject. The classes she has now are harder/more in depth than what she had in her regular school, but also allow her the opportunity to work at her desired pace. Her pace is often very fast (she went thru 2-yrs worth of curriculum in the first 6-months of homeschooling), so this has worked out well for us.

Best advice is to just keep an open mind. All kids and situations are different. We take time to re-evaluate every year and move forward with the options that work best for her/us at that time.