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Lkgymom

Proud Parent
Dec 30, 2015
24
51
My dd was L6 last year but three major injuries. I had hoped she would repeat but the gym moved her to L7. She pretty much has her skills but base line no upgrades. Her first meet was today and it wasn't great. Wanted to ask about deductions.

Bars: she did the basic routine.
Kip cast HS. Clear hip. Toe circle and jump to high bar. Kip cast HS and giant to flyaway layout.
On the layout she over rotated, missed her feet and fell on her back. A mom said that wasn't just a fall deduction of .5 but more bc she didn't get credit for the skill. True? Was it a full 1.0 off?

Same thing on beam. She was so shaken from bars she fell on her full turn. When she got up she did not redo full turn. So was this a .5 for a fall or did she lose credit for the skill? And what's the deduction for that?

Finally on floor gym didn't start her music. Full 30s of her standing there. What should she have done? Did she get major deductions for that?

Sorry for long post and thank you!
 

raenndrops

Coach
Oct 24, 2009
6,758
The 'Wood, Ohio
Bars - deducted for the fall and no dismount.
Beam - it depends if she got the foot down before the fall. Is she did, then just the fall. If not, also no credit.
Floor - since they don't time until the first movement after music starts, should not have been a deduction.
 
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Lkgymom

Proud Parent
Dec 30, 2015
24
51
Thank you!

Bars: Do you know how much that would be? She got an 8.25.

Beam: she got the foot down. And the fall is .5? Surprised bc even with the .5 a low score for her.

Floor: she twitched and moved and kept looking around. Does that count?
 

GymCMLA

Proud Parent
Aug 22, 2014
446
47
for beam, did you see her Start Value? if she didn't get a connection on her series (like a pause between skills) or was missing an A or B skill that changes your start value. Also on L7 beam if your series is a BWOBWO or CW CW you still have to do a flight (RO or BHS) so that additional skill is another place for deductions opposed to doing BWO BHS that counts for series and flight.
 
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Muffinsmom

Proud Parent
Judge
Nov 30, 2014
72
46
If she does not land on her feet first, then fall she receives no value part credit, no special requirement credit plus the fall. So yes, it's a huge deduction.

On beam it depends how much of the turn she completed before the fall. If 90 degrees or more was missing then no value part, no special requirement plus the fall.

Did her floor music ever start? It's a 1.00 deduction to do her routine with no music. If it just took a long time to start and she was waiting there then she shouldn't have had a deduction.

Sounds like anything that could go wrong did Kudos to her for continuing! She should still be very proud of herself for coming back after all those injuries and still advancing a level. Good luck to her
 

Lkgymom

Proud Parent
Dec 30, 2015
24
51
I had thought her start was 10.

BWO BWO. They looked connected. No pause. Separate BHS for flight but definitely hesitation bf that. New skill and she just got it on high beam last week. Only small wobble. Split jump and sissone. Both full split and landed clean.

Dismount was hurdle, cartwheel, back tuck. Saw a flexed foot but landed with tiny hop.

Not sure how she got to 8.45.


for beam, did you see her Start Value? if she didn't get a connection on her series (like a pause between skills) or was missing an A or B skill that changes your start value. Also on L7 beam if your series is a BWOBWO or CW CW you still have to do a flight (RO or BHS) so that additional skill is another place for deductions opposed to doing BWO BHS that counts for series and flight.
had
 

Lkgymom

Proud Parent
Dec 30, 2015
24
51
BTW this is my first post and you guys are awesome.

To answer so full point or more on bars? Beam was over rotated and foot down so likely just fall. Floor I don't know. She put herself in start position and came out of it a couple times.

But this reply almost made me teary. That's how I feel but she didn't buy any of it. Just felt crappy about herself. Since September she has gotten her KCH, her giants, toe circle, connected them all. She hadn't done the fly away layout since March and had to get it back and connect it to giant. Ok clearly that needs work.

Oh and BHS on beam, and get back FHS/tuck on floor which again she had not done since March.

Plus she got her floor routine two weeks ago. And got a 9.175.

If she does not land on her feet first, then fall she receives no value part credit, no special requirement credit plus the fall. So yes, it's a huge deduction.

On beam it depends how much of the turn she completed before the fall. If 90 degrees or more was missing then no value part, no special requirement plus the fall.

Did her floor music ever start? It's a 1.00 deduction to do her routine with no music. If it just took a long time to start and she was waiting there then she shouldn't have had a deduction.

Sounds like anything that could go wrong did Kudos to her for continuing! She should still be very proud of herself for coming back after all those injuries and still advancing a level. Good luck to her
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profmom

Proud Parent
Nov 18, 2011
9,461
Region 7
I had thought her start was 10.

BWO BWO. They looked connected. No pause. Separate BHS for flight but definitely hesitation bf that. New skill and she just got it on high beam last week. Only small wobble. Split jump and sissone. Both full split and landed clean.

Dismount was hurdle, cartwheel, back tuck. Saw a flexed foot but landed with tiny hop.

Not sure how she got to 8.45.
had

It's pretty easy to rack up a point of deductions on beam. She probably took some deductions on the turn before she fell, BHSs draw deductions, and BWO-BWO can draw them too for bent knees, flexed feet, etc. My DD competed BWO-BWO and sometimes did not get credit for connections that looked good to her coach. I'd say that an 8.45 with a fall is actually a good place to be starting with L7 beam. Was she routinely scoring in the 9.5-9.7 range on beam before this?
 
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Lkgymom

Proud Parent
Dec 30, 2015
24
51
This was her first L7, but has always been in 9s on beam. 9.2-9.6 on L6. 9.75 at L4 states. So this was a bummer to her. Even with the fall, it was her first 8 in years. But again, it's all a learning curve.

It's pretty easy to rack up a point of deductions on beam. She probably took some deductions on the turn before she fell, BHSs draw deductions, and BWO-BWO can draw them too for bent knees, flexed feet, etc. My DD competed BWO-BWO and sometimes did not get credit for connections that looked good to her coach. I'd say that an 8.45 with a fall is actually a good place to be starting with L7 beam. Was she routinely scoring in the 9.5-9.7 range on beam before this?
 

Tuppy

Proud Parent
Feb 11, 2016
359
I don't personally never think to look at the start value card, and who can see them anyway. But if the start value is lower, they write it on the card, and you should be able to tell. Just like the overtime on the beam. But I can never tell until I look at her score card.
 

Lkgymom

Proud Parent
Dec 30, 2015
24
51
We pretty much never get their cards. Maybe at the end of the season?

I don't personally never think to look at the start value card, and who can see them anyway. But if the start value is lower, they write it on the card, and you should be able to tell. Just like the overtime on the beam. But I can never tell until I look at her score card.
 

profmom

Proud Parent
Nov 18, 2011
9,461
Region 7
Some judges will flash SVs and some won't. It may or may not end up on the card. Sometimes the only way you know is if a coach asks the judge. What I can say is that DD sometimes got credit for connections that I didn't think were going to fly, and sometimes did not get credit for connections that looked good. I found that I was much better at predicting successfully whether or not connection would be granted when she and her teammates were competing BWO-BHS than when they had BWO-BWOs.
 
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Lkgymom

Proud Parent
Dec 30, 2015
24
51
That's good to know. My dd actually just flagged that for me on the BWO BWO. She doesn't pause but apparently her foot comes down all the way and maybe it shouldn't. But the coach has never pointed it out to her. Anyone have a video of the "right" type of connection? And not sure what will happen with her BWO BHS. She has two beam coaches and right now they aren't agreeing on how quickly to move her on to that, esp given that she just got the BHS, you know, last week. ;)

Some judges will flash SVs and some won't. It may or may not end up on the card. Sometimes the only way you know is if a coach asks the judge. What I can say is that DD sometimes got credit for connections that I didn't think were going to fly, and sometimes did not get credit for connections that looked good. I found that I was much better at predicting successfully whether or not connection would be granted when she and her teammates were competing BWO-BHS than when they had BWO-BWOs.
 

Lkgymom

Proud Parent
Dec 30, 2015
24
51
That's very sweet of you to say. I feel that way too, esp since I kinda thought she should have been on 6. She however isn't buying it. Any good advice on getting the kids to see it?

I think those score were really quite solid for some falls, nerves, and the first meet of the season! She did fine and score should only go up from here!
 

profmom

Proud Parent
Nov 18, 2011
9,461
Region 7
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Sounds like she did well for her first meet at L7. With BWO-BWO it really does depend on the judge. By and large, the smoother and pause-free she can make the skills, the more likely she is to get the connection, but everyone should keep in mind that the BWO-BWO is a waystation on the way to bigger things.

As for time tables, she'll figure that out with the coaches. Beam acros can be troublesome, so encourage her to be patient as she's working toward the upgrade. No reason to rush into it, but I'd guess that if she's moving forward well now, the coaches will encourage her to get it consistent and get it in her routine sooner rather than later, if for no other reason than that it's easier to get credit for the connection. But the last thing you want is a lot of pressure to GET IT NOW that results in a block that could take a long time to resolve.

Sounds like she's off to a good start. I'll look forward to hearing how things go at the next meet! Believe me, you'd rather see them losing points for falls than for sloppy skills early in the season. But I'd also predict that the very new BHS in her beam routine will look better the next time you see it at a meet. :)
 
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Lkgymom

Proud Parent
Dec 30, 2015
24
51
Really great mind set and attitude. I am very impressed with this community. Thank you.

The one thing that amazed me - she was freaking out about this meet and then last night was fretting that now that it was over she didn't have something to look forward to. Her next meet is in TWO WEEKS!

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Sounds like she did well for her first meet at L7. With BWO-BWO it really does depend on the judge. By and large, the smoother and pause-free she can make the skills, the more likely she is to get the connection, but everyone should keep in mind that the BWO-BWO is a waystation on the way to bigger things.

As for time tables, she'll figure that out with the coaches. Beam acros can be troublesome, so encourage her to be patient as she's working toward the upgrade. No reason to rush into it, but I'd guess that if she's moving forward well now, the coaches will encourage her to get it consistent and get it in her routine sooner rather than later, if for no other reason than that it's easier to get credit for the connection. But the last thing you want is a lot of pressure to GET IT NOW that results in a block that could take a long time to resolve.

Sounds like she's off to a good start. I'll look forward to hearing how things go at the next meet! Believe me, you'd rather see them losing points for falls than for sloppy skills early in the season. But I'd also predict that the very new BHS in her beam routine will look better the next time you see it at a meet. :)
 

LizzieLac

Proud Parent
May 4, 2010
1,872
Question about deduction on a beam fall from BHS. Do you get credit if you land one foot and fall off or do you need to land both feet to get the credit? This would be BHS step out... Thanks!
 

GymCMLA

Proud Parent
Aug 22, 2014
446
47
I am just a mom, but is my understanding that as long as you get 1 foot on you get credit for the skill. The trouble is if you fall on the first still in your series you have your fall deduction for the fall and then you lose credit for your series unless you repeat your series.
 

profmom

Proud Parent
Nov 18, 2011
9,461
Region 7
Ahhh, L7 beam.

Basic routine for many is BWO-BWO, and isolated BHS elsewhere in the routine. Up side is that the BWO-BWO is easier. Down side is that many judges are stingy with awarding the connection. Some judges will disallow credit for the BHS (which counts as the required acro flight, whether done in the series or in isolation) if at least one foot don't hit the beam.

Most common upgrade is to put the BHS in the series. It's almost always BWO-BHS rather than the other way around. If the kid does the BWO and connects to BHS, I think even if she falls on the BHS, she still gets credit for the series.

Here's the fun thing! With BWO-BHS, she can repeat the series if she misses the connection and falls. With BWO-BWO, if the gymnast misses the connection and falls on the second BWO, she should NOT repeat because that will make for too many BWOs in the routine and incur another deduction for that.
 
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