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Flicfliclay

Proud Parent
Aug 12, 2016
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48
ok so I'm just wanting to educate myself here and knew for sure this is the place to ask!
So, in level 6 you can basically do all level 7 skills in.. my question is.. Is level 6 judged the same as level 7? So if you went to a level 6 meet and got a 9.5 on floor and then went to a level 7 meet and did the same routine as a level 7 would you get the same score??
 

AWOL

Proud Parent
Nov 4, 2014
132
80
ok so I'm just wanting to educate myself here and knew for sure this is the place to ask!
So, in level 6 you can basically do all level 7 skills in.. my question is.. Is level 6 judged the same as level 7? So if you went to a level 6 meet and got a 9.5 on floor and then went to a level 7 meet and did the same routine as a level 7 would you get the same score??
No, she would most likely get a lower score. The judges are much more likely to take of for small things that they would not do in L6.
This is one of the things that can frustrate a competitor as they are expecting to get judged the same in all levels but in optimals this is not going to happen, the higher they go, the lower the score for the same performance.
This is something the coaches should make them aware of before their first competition at the new level so they are not as disappointed that they were getting 36's or 37's and are now getting 33;s or 34's
 
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ldw4mlo

Proud Parent
Feb 13, 2015
6,266
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Things like cast height and leap degrees are a bit more forgiving in 6. So the scores will be higher.
 

raenndrops

Coach
Oct 24, 2009
6,751
The 'Wood, Ohio
I am only answering for Floor.
If you met the Level 7 SRs in a L6 routine and did the EXACT SAME routine for the EXACT SAME judges at the EXACT SAME time as a L7, you should get the exact same score.
To do this, you would basically have to have the judges judge it for both levels.

However, different judges may score it differently. On a different day, the same routine for the same judges can get two different (but close) scores too.

In both Level 6 and Level 7, they judge what they see. The deductions are the same for the same things (although some judges will judge less harshly for a L6 than a L7). The deciding factor is meeting the SRs.
 

Flicfliclay

Proud Parent
Aug 12, 2016
949
48
Interesting. I just wasn't sure. My daughter is a level 7, but done girls she competed against last season are doing level 6, but are doing pretty much level 7 routines!? Is this just because the gyms don't allow skipping of levels? Just wondering if my daughter would have benefited by competing level 6 with her level 7 skills?!
 

amiandjim

Proud Parent
Apr 18, 2015
1,653
45
Interesting. I just wasn't sure. My daughter is a level 7, but done girls she competed against last season are doing level 6, but are doing pretty much level 7 routines!? Is this just because the gyms don't allow skipping of levels? Just wondering if my daughter would have benefited by competing level 6 with her level 7 skills?!

Some gyms have requirements for level 7 that aren't technically required by USAG so it could be they don't meet their gym requirements.
 

raenndrops

Coach
Oct 24, 2009
6,751
The 'Wood, Ohio
Some gyms have requirements for level 7 that aren't technically required by USAG so it could be they don't meet their gym requirements.
And often, it is Bars that trips them up, but could be beam or floor.
An example:
L7 actual requirement: bars - 2 B circling skills
L7 gym requirement: bars - 2 giants into layout flyaway

L7 actual requirement: beam - acro series with or without flight AND acro flight skill (may be included in the series or separately)
L7 gym requirement: beam - bwo-bhs or bhs-bhs

L7 actual requirement: floor - forward acro series with 2 flight skills, one of which without hand support (salto)
L7 gym requirement: floor - fhs-fp or fhs-flo

Not my gym, BTW, but a gym I know.
 

Flicfliclay

Proud Parent
Aug 12, 2016
949
48
And often, it is Bars that trips them up, but could be beam or floor.
An example:
L7 actual requirement: bars - 2 B circling skills
L7 gym requirement: bars - 2 giants into layout flyaway

L7 actual requirement: beam - acro series with or without flight AND acro flight skill (may be included in the series or separately)
L7 gym requirement: beam - bwo-bhs or bhs-bhs

L7 actual requirement: floor - forward acro series with 2 flight skills, one of which without hand support (salto)
L7 gym requirement: floor - fhs-fp or fhs-flo

Not my gym, BTW, but a gym I know.
Great information! I am seeing all kinds of variations for sure, but now that you say it, it was mostly bars that I saw the level 6 girls only 1 or 2 doing Giants. My daughters teammate/best friend stayed in 6 because of Giants. Thanks again for all the great information!
 
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ldw4mlo

Proud Parent
Feb 13, 2015
6,266
62
The leap is the same regardless of what optional level you are in.
As I already spoke to, there may be a min-max range regarding the deduction.

JMO, it wouldn't surprise me, on things where there are a min-max, oh lets say for the sake of argument .3-0.5, That the same skill/move, a judge might take 0.3 in L6 yet take 0.5 in L7.

It is possible. And it wouldn't surprise me.
 

3rd_time_around

Proud Parent
Judge
Oct 25, 2010
1,941
ok so I'm just wanting to educate myself here and knew for sure this is the place to ask!
So, in level 6 you can basically do all level 7 skills in.. my question is.. Is level 6 judged the same as level 7? So if you went to a level 6 meet and got a 9.5 on floor and then went to a level 7 meet and did the same routine as a level 7 would you get the same score??
No, as level 6 and 7 have different Special Requirements on each event, and different Value Part requirements, and different restrictions. It isn't about being easier on one level or the other. There's a difference in scoring because there's a difference in requirements and restrictions.
 

3rd_time_around

Proud Parent
Judge
Oct 25, 2010
1,941
As I already spoke to, there may be a min-max range regarding the deduction.

JMO, it wouldn't surprise me, on things where there are a min-max, oh lets say for the sake of argument .3-0.5, That the same skill/move, a judge might take 0.3 in L6 yet take 0.5 in L7.

It is possible. And it wouldn't surprise me.
This doesn't happen. It's all about the Special Requirements, restrictions, and Value Part requirements. An insufficient split has the same deduction in all optional levels, and the lower optional level doesn't get the minimum deduction on that while the higher levels get the maximum deduction. They get the same deduction. There is so much more to consider than just the skills you see as a spectator: there are 4 SRs on each event, and they are different in every optional level and Xcel level; there are different restrictions in each optional level; there are Value Parts that must be performed and each level is different; there are minimum angles to be achieved; special deductions, etc.
 

raenndrops

Coach
Oct 24, 2009
6,751
The 'Wood, Ohio
This doesn't happen. It's all about the Special Requirements, restrictions, and Value Part requirements. An insufficient split has the same deduction in all optional levels, and the lower optional level doesn't get the minimum deduction on that while the higher levels get the maximum deduction. They get the same deduction. There is so much more to consider than just the skills you see as a spectator: there are 4 SRs on each event, and they are different in every optional level and Xcel level; there are different restrictions in each optional level; there are Value Parts that must be performed and each level is different; there are minimum angles to be achieved; special deductions, etc.
But OP was asking about a a L7 floor routine done for L6, specifically as the example. If the routine met the L7 requirements, it would also meet the L6 requirements.
So, the question is... Would a L6 floor routine with only A and B skills that meets L7 requirements earning a 9.500 in L6 earn about the same score if competed for L7. ... And, for giggles, would a L7 floor routine that earned a 9.500 and did not have any L6 restrictions earn the same if done in L6?
 

ldw4mlo

Proud Parent
Feb 13, 2015
6,266
62
This doesn't happen. It's all about the Special Requirements, restrictions, and Value Part requirements. An insufficient split has the same deduction in all optional levels, and the lower optional level doesn't get the minimum deduction on that while the higher levels get the maximum deduction. They get the same deduction..

It can happen and probably does. There are min max deductions for things like height and insufficent splits.
Making it entirely possible for the exact same move to get a different deduction with different judges. And even the same judge on different levels. It is possible. That was the question, is it possible. The answer is yes.

I am just a parent but even I would expect a less "perfect" say split degree at a l6, then l7, moving to l8 and so on. Y the time a kid gets to L9 or 10, sure that split better be 180 and a cast HS vertical. At 6 there likely more grace given.

It is reasonable to expect the judges to as well. Yes it's possible. And I have no doubt it happens.

https://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Rules/J.O. Code of Points/appndx10_BarTechnique2013.pdf
 
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profmom

Proud Parent
Nov 18, 2011
9,461
Region 7
From what I'm seeing/hearing around here, there's not much daylight between the angle/cast/form deductions at L6 and L7. The distinction seems to be a more general lower/upper optional one, with L9/10 stuff like beam connections being held to a higher standard than L6/7. I think it's a mistake to tell a L6 athlete to expect more generosity in judging than she'd get at L7. It might happen at the occasional meet, but at least in this area, it's not the norm. (A friend of mine has a DD who for complicated reasons is going back and forth between L6 and L7 this year, so she's living the OP's hypothetical.)
 

OzZee

Proud Parent
Apr 19, 2012
2,757
Interesting. I just wasn't sure. My daughter is a level 7, but done girls she competed against last season are doing level 6, but are doing pretty much level 7 routines!? Is this just because the gyms don't allow skipping of levels? Just wondering if my daughter would have benefited by competing level 6 with her level 7 skills?!
Benefited in what way? With higher scores? More medals?
 

Seeker

Proud Parent
Aug 30, 2012
6,687
USA
Benefited in what way? With higher scores? More medals?
Some gymnasts benefit from another year of competitive experience before moving into the upper optional levels. Many gyms (ours included) don't compete L6 at all, so if that additional year is needed, they either repeat L5 or L7. You wind up at the same place...just a little different path.

As for the pros to L6 -- it's a little bit less of a pressure cooker and can provide some good competition experience to build confidence and add skills as you get them.
 
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