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I just asked my dd's coach this exact same question a few weeks ago. His response was: in doing the pike dismount the gymnast tends to stay "higher".... saving them from the deduction many girls get by doing a tuck too low.
Once my gymnasts learn a layout flyaway, this is my dismount of choice. There is .20 to .40 less in deductions available on a layout than there is on a tuck or a pike. The deductions are as follows:
As you can see, there are less deductions for a layout. However, if you tuck your layout, it will be counted as a tuck with full deductions. For this reason, I only have my gymnasts with perfect layouts compete them.
H
hammy
I agree with JBS that a layout flyaway needs to be taught, however, some girls are unable to grasp the concept, and a tuck flyaway is easier for them. If my girls aren't able to kick their toes up into the layout, then I work tuck until they can learn the toes up. Either way, I teach them to kick their toes up before they release the bar.
Thank you all for the comments.
Our bar coach does not teach a tuck flyaway at all - he does not even introduce it. Just a pike, well it looks like a layout but when I was watching last week, he kept saying "more pike". Now I am pretty sure he is just teaching it as a beginning phase to doing the layout flyaway. Seeing the deductions that can be taken - this makes sense as to why. Since this is the case, I am surprised that so many L6'ers only compete tuck flyaways. Why not just introduce the pike or layout flyaway first & avoid the tuck all together? Isn't that a better transition to L7 bars?
Our bar coach does not teach a tuck flyaway at all - he does not even introduce it. Just a pike, well it looks like a layout but when I was watching last week, he kept saying "more pike". Now I am pretty sure he is just teaching it as a beginning phase to doing the layout flyaway. Seeing the deductions that can be taken - this makes sense as to why. Since this is the case, I am surprised that so many L6'ers only compete tuck flyaways. Why not just introduce the pike or layout flyaway first & avoid the tuck all together? Isn't that a better transition to L7 bars?
I can see where the coach is going in regards to the release I guess but I think a pike is generally more awkward to land than a tuck or layout. My old gym taught tuck first because the coaches preferred to spot from low bar. Once a decent release in the tuck was demonstrated, they work from a cast and then layouts. Personally I think it's easier to teach the concept of releasing with open shoulders with a tuck flip but I guess that comes down to your personal coaching opinion, equipment available, how you prefer to spot, etc. Lead up at my old gym is mainly low bar swing to open shoulder release to a wedge mat in front of the bar (skinny side toward the bar), land on back with arms up, legs in good tuck position. When they demonstrate proficiency in that, we put really cushiony mats over the wedge and flip (with spot to maintain shoulder position and slow landing) basically to hands and knees on that set up (still low bar). Then move to pit, straight leg tap swing to release, tuck, land on back (no flip), then tap to tuck flyaway.
Since virtually no one skips L6 in that program they are more concerned with developing the tap swing release than working the flyaway position. By the time layouts are introduced, it doesn't take long to make the transition. I can't even remember when I learned a layout. I can remember learning a cast flyaway on day (mostly because it was with this old coach we had who left a little later, so I recall that in the timeline of that last week) and then the next memories I have of that summer I was doing exclusively cast HS layout. It wasn't eventful in the least. Neither was a double back. I learned cast tuck timer, cast double, giant tuck timer (pit), giant double. I can't imagine doing a giant tuck timer now (I do a layout timer, usually to my back), but that was how I learned it. When I learned a double pike I basically just released for my layout to back timer and then grabbed (that was in a pit).
Since virtually no one skips L6 in that program they are more concerned with developing the tap swing release than working the flyaway position. By the time layouts are introduced, it doesn't take long to make the transition. I can't even remember when I learned a layout. I can remember learning a cast flyaway on day (mostly because it was with this old coach we had who left a little later, so I recall that in the timeline of that last week) and then the next memories I have of that summer I was doing exclusively cast HS layout. It wasn't eventful in the least. Neither was a double back. I learned cast tuck timer, cast double, giant tuck timer (pit), giant double. I can't imagine doing a giant tuck timer now (I do a layout timer, usually to my back), but that was how I learned it. When I learned a double pike I basically just released for my layout to back timer and then grabbed (that was in a pit).
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BlairBob
Currently right now in the USAG JO MAG, we are not allowed to compete a pike flyaway in level 5 or 6 on HB. Actually there is no option for tuck, pike, or layout position.
What I heard is that the current thought is that the pike flyaway can be dangerous to teach and perform because of the landing position and tendency to pull in and be short.
Very often, sometimes they're tap swings and bail/push-away from the baby giant are just not enough to get a layout out of. This also has to do with the timing of their release.
What I heard is that the current thought is that the pike flyaway can be dangerous to teach and perform because of the landing position and tendency to pull in and be short.
Very often, sometimes they're tap swings and bail/push-away from the baby giant are just not enough to get a layout out of. This also has to do with the timing of their release.
K
KBT
The biggest problem areas I've seen with flyaways is pulling in/closed shoulder angle combined with a fear of the skill and letting go too early. I will note that I coach rec gymnastics where tap swing timers and technique are generally not focused on so there are issues I deal with that may not be such big issues in USAG levels. I want my kids to concentrate on shoulder angle and the correct time to let go of the bar without overloaded them with leg position as well. I also prefer the tuck because it flips faster which is nice for my letting-go-too-early kids! Also, most of my kids are going to compete high school where the deductions for a tuck are less than a pike. It's much more obvious if the legs are bent and toes not pointed in a pike, plus it amplifies our technique issues.
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Saturate15
At my gym, the 6's began by just learning layout flyaways. If you don't know any differently, it's not an issue. It taught us the correct body form from the get-go. We always had the option, however, to do tucks, and I compete tucks because I can stick it everytime, and my height is at the bar. A pike would be too risky to compete, because if ti wasn't all the way piked, it could be judged as a terrible layout.
Yes. I only teach layout flyaways. There is no point to teaching a tuck. A tuck, I think, doesn't make much sense. When you change your body position from a straight hollow at the end of the swing to a tuck, the kids sometimes pull on the bar and create a shoulder angle- definitely not a good thing. So it's just easier to teach a layout- no body position changes- just stay tight! Plus less deductions, prettier skill.
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BlairBob
With all itty bitty's and the smaller gymnasts, it's easy to train the layout. It simply just means they have to enough swing and turn over in the front swing. This gets problematic to spot when they get bigger or lack enough swing to compete and then sometimes we have gone down to the tuck as an alternative. Pike is the last option we try on a case by case basis if the gymnast cannot understand or tuck or layout. This is in WAG. We don't have that option in MAG as they cannot do other than the tuck and I don't think they can do the layout in the compulsory levels. No option for it.
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