level 8 bars routine question

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dmytv

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Nov 17, 2009
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region 8
My dd is a strange one when it comes to bars. She has not been able to connect the giant to the flyaway. So on her own, she has come up with a routine and wants to know if it is allowed.

start on low bar facing high bar
kip, cast handstand, clearhip to HS, kip, squaton, jump, kip, cast handstand, giant, giant, kip, cast handstand, 1/2 pirouette, tap swing forward front fly away.

Anyway she can do a layout flyaway from a cast hand stand but she is not sure how to connect it to the giants. She can also do a toe hect front flyaway but that is not allowed at level 8. So, She is not sure what to do. Does anyone have any ideas?
 

hawaii_gymnast

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I would say the best thing for her future would be to work on the giant to flyaway. If she can cast handstand to flyaway, and she has a nice giant with nice shapes she should have no problem connecting them. Has she tried before, is she scared? Do lots with spot and make sure she is comfortable with both the giant and cast handstand to flyaway.
 
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Optionals United

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Yes you can do that routine in level 8. as long as the front flyaway is connected with no extra tap swings. but the routine will not start from a 10 if she doesnt have a pirouette or another C
 

Flipomaniak

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Jun 25, 2012
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I would suggest she get her fly away, that would help her in the future for double fly ways, twisting flyaways, gienger releases.... Front fly always are good to have but aren't really "real" dismounts until you do a double, which is a lot harder than backwards... About it being allowed, I pretty sure it's not, but only your coach can tell you that...
 

gymdog

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That's fine for level 7, not level 8 as far I know. I'm sure one of the judges here can confirm. About two years ago they changed the rule regarding counter swing before front dismount, but for level only. In level 8, if you swing forward, it has to be into an element to avoid the extra swing deduction. Swing forward, swing backward is an extra swing. Summarized here, note it says level 7 only:

"Level 7 only: No penalty for extra swing will be applied if a counter swing is performed prior to salto forward (front flyaway) dismount (#8.107 or 8.207)"
 

iwannacoach

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I don't know your dd's learning rate and time line on her giant and fly-away skills. Is it safe to assume that both skills have been in her bag of tricks for about a year? If so, I wouldn't hit the panic button yet. She has over four months to figure this out before needing them in combination for competition, and over 8+ months from now until State Championships.

She has plenty of time to learn how to do the two giants, change gears mentally after them, and enter into a modified swing that is slightly slower so she can establish a "unique rythym" for her fly-away. Sorry, I forgot to mentiom that in many cases the problem your dd is experiencing is caused by swinging a giant, which establishes a circular mind and body "set", and then moving directly into a skill that "starts" like a giant, but is then aborted in favor of a fly-away. This unique rythym works to signal their mind and body that the next skill is a fly-away.

Some coaches will say that a fly-away is an aborted giant with a well timed release point, and I really get that, but for a pre-teen/teen child who's just begun to learn and refine these skills.....not so much. There are examples of kids landing flyaways on the high bar with the impact point near the shoulder blades and upward to the neck and head, due primarily to confusion over what and when.

So don't give up on the combination in favor of an aternate dismount that reqiures accomodations like an extra swing or an additional bar to bar excursion. This combination can be learned, it can be safe, and it brings a very desirable set of potential elements along with it. Let her and her coach find a way to make her swing from the giant into the fly-away one that she can identify and work comfortably with.
 
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dunno

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My dd is a strange one when it comes to bars. She has not been able to connect the giant to the flyaway. So on her own, she has come up with a routine and wants to know if it is allowed.

start on low bar facing high bar
kip, cast handstand, clearhip to HS, kip, squaton, jump, kip, cast handstand, giant, giant, kip, cast handstand, 1/2 pirouette, tap swing forward front fly away.

Anyway she can do a layout flyaway from a cast hand stand but she is not sure how to connect it to the giants. She can also do a toe hect front flyaway but that is not allowed at level 8. So, She is not sure what to do. Does anyone have any ideas?

her coach can't figure this out?
 

dmytv

Coach
Coach
Nov 17, 2009
258
region 8
ummm... no dunno, he insists on a giant, giant layout fly away and she has yet to do that. She was betrayed by a coach/gym last year and has trust issues. I meanwhile work at another little city gym and am not there to see what is going on. They are good coaches but sometimes I feel they don't know what to do with her because they have a set of compusory ideas for optionals.I have yet to check out my options with which you suggested because well lets say time. :)
 

Pineapple_Lump

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Jan 31, 2008
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I don't see the coaches allowing her to do a front flyaway. If they will not let her swing down from a giant, kip and cast to handstand, why would that let her do this with a 1/2 turn and a front flyaway. Personally I think they should allow her to swing down and kip back up into the flyaway until she is ready to do it from a giant. The competitive season is awhile away, letting your daughter know that she can do it from the cast could take the pressure off her learning the flyaway from a giant.
 
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dunno

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my 1st question is, and in line with sequential progression of uneven bar dismounts, can she do a kip cast handstand and then flyaway?

more often than not, coaches think that you can shortcut the circuitous route to flyaways by just doing them from a preceding giant swing. this can cause some kids to be insecure about the increase in speed they 'feel' causing them to 'feel' like they will come back and hit the bar. and justifiably so.

this is similar to when inexperienced coaches think that giants should precede tkatchevs and geingers because the added increase in speed/rotation of the giants will somehow launch them above the bar. well...it does! but if the child can't 'feel' (proprioception) the bar because they are swinging so fast (rotary) they start changing their grips on the downswing or subtlety 'killing' the tap swing cause they can't 'feel' or 'control' the skill and 'feel' like they will come back and hit the bar. or they let go altogether to early to make certain they don't hit the bar.

then the coach gets mad/frustrated because they then have to tell them to stop 'shifting' their grips or 'killing' their taps. understand? they then waste time and energy fixing mistakes that are created because the sequential 'root' skill was taught improperly.

this kind of stuff is all sequentially related. kinda like why you don't first learn a double full on floor and then back up and learn a full. so then, a child should first be able to demonstrate a kip cast to handstand in to a flyaway with good angles and control before being allowed to perform a giant swing in to a flyaway.:)
 
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Mar 5, 2012
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this kind of stuff is all sequentially related. kinda like why you don't first learn a double full on floor and then back up and learn a full. so then, a child should first be able to demonstrate a kip cast to handstand in to a flyaway with good angles and control before being allowed to perform a giant swing in to a flyaway.:)

yes, agreed. lots of kip cast away flyaways...working up to kip cast to hs flyaways, THEN giants to flyaways.

does she have giants by herself already? does she know how to slow her swing down? these are all things her coach should be working on with her...
 
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