For Parents Level 8 vault starting values

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LCsMom

Proud Parent
Oct 27, 2020
20
48
I'm just a gym parent and not a coach or a judge by any stretch of the imagination. But I do try to keep up with what is required so I have some semblance of understanding of the scoring at meets and where my kid might end up next year.

I was under the impression that for DP level 8 you needed to be able to flip the vault. But at practice the other day a coach was running my kid through half-ons full offs, with the idea that these would have a start value of 9.4. Meaning she could still compete vault even if she didn't have the full value skill.

Our gym doesn't have a pit so we've been traveling to gyms with pits to help her get this skill. It's the only skill she doesn't have for 8. Now I'm thinking she can still compete 8 with a lower vault starting value. Our gym isn't one of those gyms that is super competitive; they require that skills are done safely, but they don't care about winning meets.

Has anyone else seen or experienced level 8 vaults deliberately competed with lower start values?
 

MuggleMom

Proud Parent
Dec 22, 2016
772
Virginia
We had a girl compete that exact vault all year because she wasnt ready to flip vaults due to an injury. She scored in the mid 8s and was able to qualify to States and Regionals. I believe by regionals she was flipping and got more competitive scores. I think we also had someone do the Timer vault (like level 7) and just not have the full start value but I am not 100% sure on that one. She can definitely compete and be successful at level 8 with that vault.
 

MuggleMom

Proud Parent
Dec 22, 2016
772
Virginia
And to add on to what I posted... there are some level 8s that flip some pretty scary vaults and dont score very well. It could be very benificial for your kid to have a clean vault with a lower start value than a scary flipping vault. There were not a ton of 9's at level 8 until regionals. My kid won vault with a 9.2 at one meet.
 

Mish

Proud Parent
Aug 15, 2015
683
53
My daughter competed the yurchenko timer (to feet, not mat) for much of level 8 season due to setbacks from injuries. It only has a 9 start value but keeps her from scratching. (Granted it doesn't score well if not perfect).
 

CoachPow

Coach
May 22, 2020
14
40
I'm just a gym parent and not a coach or a judge by any stretch of the imagination. But I do try to keep up with what is required so I have some semblance of understanding of the scoring at meets and where my kid might end up next year.

I was under the impression that for DP level 8 you needed to be able to flip the vault. But at practice the other day a coach was running my kid through half-ons full offs, with the idea that these would have a start value of 9.4. Meaning she could still compete vault even if she didn't have the full value skill.

Our gym doesn't have a pit so we've been traveling to gyms with pits to help her get this skill. It's the only skill she doesn't have for 8. Now I'm thinking she can still compete 8 with a lower vault starting value. Our gym isn't one of those gyms that is super competitive; they require that skills are done safely, but they don't care about winning meets.

Has anyone else seen or experienced level 8 vaults deliberately competed with lower start values?
I coach HS gymnastics, so we don't follow levels (most of my top kids would be equivalent to 8/9 range) and I appreciate your club's attention to safety. I can't begin to tell you how many terrifying vaults I've seen when coaches are pushing progression over everything else (not to say scary vaults don't happen on occasion, but when a kid has nothing but horrible flips all day long, they have no business flipping during comp!) Your coach is looking at longevity of athletes by not pushing the issue without a pit. Teaching and spotting tsuks without a pit was one of the scariest (and most painful) parts of my career.
 
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LCsMom

Proud Parent
Oct 27, 2020
20
48
I coach HS gymnastics, so we don't follow levels (most of my top kids would be equivalent to 8/9 range) and I appreciate your club's attention to safety. I can't begin to tell you how many terrifying vaults I've seen when coaches are pushing progression over everything else (not to say scary vaults don't happen on occasion, but when a kid has nothing but horrible flips all day long, they have no business flipping during comp!) Your coach is looking at longevity of athletes by not pushing the issue without a pit. Teaching and spotting tsuks without a pit was one of the scariest (and most painful) parts of my career.
I don't know how you coaches manage to get through practices with these higher level skills without having a panic attack at the end....I can sometimes barely watch. And as to scary vaults happening....at my kid's very first level 4 competition, she somehow did a Superman thing where she flew over the vault entirely. Then she picked herself up, dusted herself off, got back on the runway....and did the same thing again. I was all "maybe you're not ready for this level!" but she just blamed it on a slippery vault and shrugged it off. She placed on all the other events and she never did do it again...turns out "Superman" isn't a sanctioned vault skill. :)
 

CoachPow

Coach
May 22, 2020
14
40
I don't know how you coaches manage to get through practices with these higher level skills without having a panic attack at the end....I can sometimes barely watch. And as to scary vaults happening....at my kid's very first level 4 competition, she somehow did a Superman thing where she flew over the vault entirely. Then she picked herself up, dusted herself off, got back on the runway....and did the same thing again. I was all "maybe you're not ready for this level!" but she just blamed it on a slippery vault and shrugged it off. She placed on all the other events and she never did do it again...turns out "Superman" isn't a sanctioned vault skill. :)
Had a sophomore (approx level 9) kid take a dive at the State individual meet two years back-just a couple of weeks before Covid hit. She competed a Yurchenko pike followed by a layout most of the year. First attempt she stumbled and tripped on her hurdle and did a baseball slide up onto the board. Then she did it again... Couldn't be more proud of her when she got up there at State this year and flipped twice-even though she just did tucks (competing on a fractured big toe. 100% by her own choice as it was her senior year!)

Spotting in practice isn't that scary since you know you are going to catch them. The terrifying ones are the first few times throwing tricks in competition when you have to make a decision. Once they become confident, its not so bad.
 
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ZB55

Proud Parent
May 6, 2020
29
There is a whole chart of allowable Level 8 vaults that have start values between 9.0-10.0. We've seen plenty of timers at meets (9.0 SV), and indeed the twisting can add value. For example a handspring with 1/2 twist off is 9.1 SV, and the vault you described has 9.4 SV.

Also, there is a rule that allows spotting assistance in the post-flight of salto vaults in Level 8 with a 1.0 deduction. Before my daughter had consistency, her coach preferred her to flip with a planned spot/bump rather than do a timer. They essentially have the same value, and flipping at the meet with the spot kept progress and gained experience towards doing it on her own, which she did safely later in the season.
 
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jillc

Proud Parent
Apr 1, 2016
154
42
My DD just finished a session of level 8. I would guess at the meets she competed at, only 60-70% of the girls flipped vaults. The rest did a non flipping with a lower SV.
 
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LCsMom

Proud Parent
Oct 27, 2020
20
48
Spotting in practice isn't that scary since you know you are going to catch them. The terrifying ones are the first few times throwing tricks in competition when you have to make a decision. Once they become confident, its not so bad.
Thanks for coaching, and for catching. You rock!
 

gymgal

Gold Membership
Proud Parent
Aug 22, 2008
4,569
I really wish they had vault timers when my dd competed 7/8. She competed a yurchenko tuck for 8 and fell in more than half the meets. She could do them in practice but couldn't stand them up in competitions. Still, she ended up with same/better scores than others who competed just a front handspring vault. She needed the competition experience so the coaches let her continue to do the vault knowing she likely would fall

as for the chart another poster mentioned:
 
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CoachPow

Coach
May 22, 2020
14
40
There is a whole chart of allowable Level 8 vaults that have start values between 9.0-10.0. We've seen plenty of timers at meets (9.0 SV), and indeed the twisting can add value. For example a handspring with 1/2 twist off is 9.1 SV, and the vault you described has 9.4 SV.

Also, there is a rule that allows spotting assistance in the post-flight of salto vaults in Level 8 with a 1.0 deduction. Before my daughter had consistency, her coach preferred her to flip with a planned spot/bump rather than do a timer. They essentially have the same value, and flipping at the meet with the spot kept progress and gained experience towards doing it on her own, which she did safely later in the season.
That rule has great intentions, but isn't consistently applied. You can completely save a kid and get scored, but just tap the next and get voided.
 

cogymmom2dd

Proud Parent
Feb 9, 2020
188
My DD had a very clean, crisp, non-flipping vault this season due to mental blocks. My gym is like yours. No pit and not overly concerned about ‘winning’. They meet athletes where they are at and safely work with them. She still scored high 8’s with SV around 9ish
 
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