WAG Level for cast to handstand?

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Here we usually start to teach it in level B (could be compared to level 3) which is the first compulsory level. But at that stage, they are spotted of course. Usually the kids start to hit handstand by themselves when they are level Ds, but NOT from kip cast at this point. In level E (like level 6-7) a handstand is a requirement but there are kids who can't get there by this time. In level F (like level 7-9) pretty much everyone has it.
 
DD has "gotten" the cast handstands a couple of times in practice in the last few weeks at level 4, as in she's made it, but I'm assuming it's far from competition ready.
 
My dd could cast to handstand, straight or straddle, in level 4, in that she could cast up to a handstand, but controlling the descent took a while.

She could kip-cast to handstand in level 5 but it was inconsistent, and coming down from a vertical position and connecting it to anything was a big challenge. At competition she kept it to about 30 degrees above horizontal so she could control it.

In level 6 now she has a really nice kip straddle cast to handstand on the low bar. She is usually off of vertical on the high bar about 10 degrees and occasionally still goes over, but her progress here has really come a long way this year.
 
Not to toot my own horn, but.....

For the gym I coached at in CA (where I was head compulsory coach, and worked directly with level 4-6s), most girls got them at level 5, with a few getting it at 4.

For the gym I'm at right now, where I work almost exclusively with the level 6 girls..... level 6 (though most of them are inconsistent, some don't have it, and on average they probably won't have it consistently until midway through level 7)

*HONK*

(I plan on making a video detailing my cast handstand progressions in the near future: it's actually not at all a difficult skill to teach or learn)
 
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Dd skipped 5 and got the straddle cast handstand in 6. However kip cast handstand was a beast and inconsistent for the year. Didn’t start getting it til fall of 7, and to full vertical regularly til the end of the season.
 
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Ok, a couple of people have PM'd me to ask about this, so I'll give a rough outline of my preferred cast handstand progressions. But while I can give some more specifics and side drills, the biggest advice I can give is this: TRAIN P-BAR SWINGS. There's a reason most male gymnasts learn casts to handstand effortlessly: it's because by the time they get to the level where cast handstands are a thing, they've already done a million p-bar swings. The back half of a p-bar swing is mechanically identical to a cast, and it's easy to practice high numbers of repetitions without the need to slam the hips into the bar over and over.

~PRETEAM:
-Get comfortable leaning/falling over a bar. Stand in a straddle in front a floor bar and lean forward (as if to do a press handstand) until you fall over into a forward roll. Arms straight the whole time.
-P-BAR SWINGS. Swing height is not important; the priority is tight body. The goal is for the gymnast to learn to control the swing using ONLY the shoulders, with ZERO change in position of the midsection, hips, or legs. This doesn't have to be done on an actual set of p-bars; they can do it between two spotting blocks.

~LEVEL 3:
-Level 3 beam dismount, but on a bar. This is how gymnasts will bail out of an overshot cast handstand; the more comfortable they are over shooting their goal, the less they'll be afraid to go for it. They can set up a block around bar height and kick/jump/press to handstand, then quarter-turn dismount just like they do at the end of their beam routines.
-Press handstand strength and progressions in general.
-P-BAR SWINGS. At this point, they should understand how to stay tight while swinging, and focus on getting the swing as high as reasonably possible without breaking body position. Horizontal or slightly above is a good base goal, but stronger kids should be able to hit 45deg, or even handstand with a bit of practice. As mentioned above, they should know how to bail out if they overshoot the handstand, by pirouetting off. If you're using actual p-bars, it's a lot less scary if they do the swings at the end of the bars, facing out.

~LEVEL 4:
-From handstand, controlled planche/lower down to pushup position. This functions both as a strength exercise, and a drill to get them used to controlling and balancing by leaning the shoulders forward past the hands. It's also good for practicing tight body positions.
-MORE P-BAR SWINGS. Once they can swing to a bit above horizontal with good form and positions, they can swing to straddle stand on the boxes, then press/jump to handstand. They should also learn to swing down from handstand, returning to support swings. Once they can do all of this, the next step is to just barely touch the tips of the toes on the block in the straddle stand phase, before pressing the rest of the way. Once they get comfortable with this, they can miss the feet, so they'll swing, straddle, and press to handstand all without stopping. Once they can do this, they should work on doing several in a row.

~LEVEL 5:
-STILL MORE P-BAR SWINGS. Multiple swings through straddle to handstand in a row should be routine by this point. Sets of 5+ can be done as a conditioning station in a bar rotation.
-They can also transfer this exact same progression to a single rail, by setting two spotting blocks behind the bar with a gap in between. They cast, straddle on the blocks, then press/jump to handstand and either bail forward with a quarter turn or return to the bar (they should be comfortable doing both). As with the p-bar swings, this turns into a cast to barely touching the toes on the blocks before pressing, and eventually they just miss their feet entirely and cast straddle to handstand.

~LEVEL 6+:
-CONTINUE TRAINING P-BAR SWINGS. Even after these are mastered, they should be a regular bar station at all levels. They can crank out lots of reps with minimal difficulty. It's also worthwhile to develop the swing with a straight body, to build even greater strength and control.
 
mine was doing it as an early level 4. it was just something she was able to pick up easily. she competed it as a 6 (see my pic). she did tops for a while and had her sitting press handstand as a lvl 3 (sporadic but there was upper body strength there that helped).
 
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Mine got a cast to handstand the summer after level 3, but she couldn't connect it before or after anything. She's just starting to connect it out of kip now in level 5 (in real time this was only about 6 months but it took the Level 5 bar skills to figure out the skill, I think if she was training level 4 she probably would not have it yet.)
 
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Ok, so I didn't go super-detailed and show all the supplemental drills I do along the side, but this video shows the p-bar swing progressions I use to train casts, which in my opinion is the most crucial part:



A couple of notes:
-This video was taken at the end of practice; the athlete was tired, and thus her technique was not quite as clean as what I would generally want, but this video should still be enough to give you the general idea of how these drills work. The athlete in this video is too hollow; ideally, the body position for these swings should be arrow-straight.
-When kids are first learning casts (ie preteam), I spot them to teach proper shapes, but after that I don't spot casts at all, up until they're learning pirouettes. I firmly believe that if you are patient and take the time to build the strength, balance, and confidence for casts to handstand, spotting them is not only unnecessary, but counterproductive, because it alters the balance and rhythm of the skill too much.
 
(I plan on making a video detailing my cast handstand progressions in the near future: it's actually not at all a difficult skill to teach or learn)
Thank you I should of read to the end and then posted :cool:

Could you speed that up please? My girlie is finally to handstand, mid L7, scores going up.:)

But it would be nice not wonder if today is a vertical day or not :D
 
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Oh, and I want to add:

Once they can swing to handstand, you can transfer pretty much the same progressions to a single rail by putting two parallel blocks and a noodle behind the bar. So they stand between the blocks, jump to glide swing, and kipcast to straddle on the blocks, then press to handstand; once they master this, they do the same thing but without touching the feet, and that way you've easily transitioned from the p-bar swing handstand to a kipcast handstand.
 
Ok, so I didn't go super-detailed and show all the supplemental drills I do along the side, but this video shows the p-bar swing progressions I use to train casts, which in my opinion is the most crucial part:



A couple of notes:
-This video was taken at the end of practice; the athlete was tired, and thus her technique was not quite as clean as what I would generally want, but this video should still be enough to give you the general idea of how these drills work. The athlete in this video is too hollow; ideally, the body position for these swings should be arrow-straight.
-When kids are first learning casts (ie preteam), I spot them to teach proper shapes, but after that I don't spot casts at all, up until they're learning pirouettes. I firmly believe that if you are patient and take the time to build the strength, balance, and confidence for casts to handstand, spotting them is not only unnecessary, but counterproductive, because it alters the balance and rhythm of the skill too much.


I tried your p-bar drill yesterday in practice with my girls. And it works wonders! One of them got the straddle cast after 10 minutes of working this station. I will include this station in my normal bars rotation as a side station and be quite confident in getting the cast this year on real bars with them =) Thanks a lot!
 
So does that mean that most US gyms expect kids to get their cast to handstand in level 5, or is this more of an ideal than a reality?
Short Stack began competing (straddle) CHS mid-season L6. (Just for reference, she had a full season of both L4 & L5)
 
Do you think this could work for actual beginners? I have a few rec team kids who can't cast to 45 degrees below horizontal, it would be great to get their casts at least a bit bigger

Absolutely! But start with small swings emphasizing straight body, and give them plenty of time to get comfortable balancing low swings before trying to increase swing height.
 
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I can’t remember when our coaches started teaching it but my dd has it consistently before starting level 6. Not all of the girls had it though, maybe 3-4? And now at the end of the level 7 season, it’s honestly about the same number. I think it’s a skill that takes a while to get on a constant basis.
 
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Has anyone else had this problem? As my daughters casts at level 5 have gotten higher, her scores have gotten lower. I imagine it is because it is hard to control all that energy. I suppose the scores don't matter as much as learning the skill progression.
 

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